How Bret McKenzie Dads - A creative play masterclass from a master of creativity

[00:00:00] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad, so he makes this show where he talks to other dads so he can find out how other dads dads.

[00:00:18] Alright, very exciting on this episode of How Other Dads Dad. We decided to go on a little bit of an excursion. We went on an adventure, Timmy and I, we actually do mean Tim has lots of children.

[00:00:29] If you see a kid in Melbourne, there's a good chance it's one of Tim's. He's got four, but he took two, he took half of his available children and I took my two kids and a big shout out to my wife Zoe as well, because it wouldn't quite have been possible without it.

[00:00:45] Went across to New Zealand, landed in Wellington because we wanted to, I wanted to chat to my old mate Brett McKenzie.

[00:00:51] You might know Brett from Flight of the Conchords. Just a great human being. Yes, hilarious. That's something that we probably all know for sure, but man, Brett just makes me giggle and puts a twinkle in my heart and my eye every time I talk to him.

[00:01:08] And I know he brings that to his dadding and to his fathering. And when I first thought of this show years ago, you know, he was one of the names that I wrote down initially on the list.

[00:01:20] And we get into discussing why. I probably don't articulate it that well as you're about to hear, but the fact remains, he was one of the initial guys I thought of, because when you're a young, younger guy and you don't have kids, you do look to the people who've already had kids and they make an impact on you.

[00:01:38] And Brett was certainly one of those for me.

[00:01:40] If you're not familiar with Brett's incredibly funny work with Flight of the Conchords, on top of that, or, you know, as part of that, you sort of forget because Flight of the Conchords was such a funny show, but Brett is an insanely talented musician.

[00:01:52] He's won an Academy Award. He's got an Oscar for the music and the song he wrote, one of the songs he wrote for the Muppet movie.

[00:01:59] That's a pretty big deal. He writes amazing music.

[00:02:03] He has an album out that's him actually performing music, not comedy songs.

[00:02:08] The album's called Songs Without Jokes.

[00:02:10] And it is a massive hit in our household and I highly recommend you have a listen.

[00:02:15] It's kind of a super trampy, 70s type vibe to the music.

[00:02:19] It's really awesome.

[00:02:19] But the man behind all that is the man we wanted to talk about.

[00:02:23] One of the reasons we were so stoked to go to Wellington and sit down with Brett as my wife very expertly had four kids in another hotel room who were all pretending to do news reports.

[00:02:36] So I thank you, Zoe, for giving Timmy and I the time to scooch over to one of the other rooms and sit down and find out how Brett McKenzie dads.

[00:02:49] Brett, thank you so much, mate.

[00:02:54] It's very lovely to be here.

[00:02:55] Oh, mate.

[00:02:56] And we're very excited to be playing an away game too here in your hometown in Wellington.

[00:03:01] New Zealand.

[00:03:02] Yeah, live in New Zealand.

[00:03:03] Sounds different, right?

[00:03:03] Yeah, that's good.

[00:03:04] It doesn't sound like an Australian hotel room, does it?

[00:03:07] No, the quality's huge.

[00:03:08] You have to excuse me.

[00:03:08] I'm a little bit starstruck still because on the way here, we only got in a few hours ago and we drove past the Southern.

[00:03:15] Southern Hemisphere's biggest wooden building.

[00:03:17] So I'm just a bit dazzled from seeing it.

[00:03:22] Yeah, big social media spot.

[00:03:26] But I'll compose myself.

[00:03:28] Okay.

[00:03:28] Because we've got some serious stuff.

[00:03:31] Can I say though, on the wooden building, it looked like it was stone.

[00:03:37] I believe you.

[00:03:38] I believe the driver.

[00:03:39] It's made of wood to look like a stone building.

[00:03:43] So all the nuisance of building with wood.

[00:03:47] But none of the aesthetics.

[00:03:49] Much more of a fire risk.

[00:03:50] Yeah.

[00:03:50] Yeah, no, it was great.

[00:03:51] It looked awesome.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] It looked awesome.

[00:03:53] But this is so cool to be here.

[00:03:54] Mate, I'm lucky enough to have known you for many years now.

[00:03:59] Too many years.

[00:04:00] Like a kind of a bit of a scary amount of years.

[00:04:03] 14 years.

[00:04:04] Maybe.

[00:04:04] 14 years.

[00:04:04] Sort of.

[00:04:05] Yeah.

[00:04:06] And do you know what?

[00:04:07] In a funny way, you popped into my mind early on when I was thinking about this show,

[00:04:13] about doing this sort of a project.

[00:04:15] Because I think maybe very unknowingly, you had one of the first impressions on me of like

[00:04:23] what it might be like to be a dad.

[00:04:25] Right.

[00:04:26] Because when we first met, I had a baby.

[00:04:29] Two.

[00:04:29] And was about to have a baby.

[00:04:30] And a pregnant wife.

[00:04:31] Yes.

[00:04:32] And we were making a movie that was basically, you were like.

[00:04:35] So a couple of things I remember from that time.

[00:04:37] So dad stats, you've got three kids now, don't you?

[00:04:40] Three kids.

[00:04:41] Yeah.

[00:04:41] I've got.

[00:04:41] Yeah.

[00:04:42] Yeah.

[00:04:42] So your daughter is now.

[00:04:44] My daughter is 15.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:46] The one who was not born when we met.

[00:04:50] Was almost there.

[00:04:50] Yeah.

[00:04:51] Leo, he's 13.

[00:04:53] And then we had another one.

[00:04:55] We went for three.

[00:04:58] He's nine.

[00:04:59] Are you going to have any more?

[00:05:01] Peer bombshell at this stage.

[00:05:03] Yeah, it would be.

[00:05:04] It would disrupt the.

[00:05:04] We barely made it this far.

[00:05:06] It would disrupt the pattern.

[00:05:08] But I remember.

[00:05:09] So we meet and you, you know, and I was like, oh, wow.

[00:05:12] Brett's got, like, he's got a two or three year old daughter.

[00:05:14] That's so grown up.

[00:05:16] Like, what a spin out.

[00:05:18] And, you know, as we became friends and people, you know, would not be surprised to hear that

[00:05:23] you are, you know, as you seem like this fun, gentle, beautiful man to hang out with.

[00:05:31] And then there was one day that we were on.

[00:05:33] Oh, no.

[00:05:34] What happened?

[00:05:35] What I did?

[00:05:35] No, you were.

[00:05:36] There was this one day.

[00:05:37] You screamed at me.

[00:05:39] You're a psycho.

[00:05:40] You're quite an angry psycho guy.

[00:05:42] And I was like, this guy can't have children.

[00:05:45] I've got to report him.

[00:05:46] I need to rescue his daughter.

[00:05:49] And that's why that whole problem happened.

[00:05:51] And then you chased us around New Zealand and we eventually gave her back.

[00:05:54] No, you, like, we were talking about something and you said to like the mini, we were in

[00:05:59] like a minivan kind of situation where you're getting transported around, like as happens

[00:06:02] on film sets.

[00:06:03] And you said something like, you know, I never understood.

[00:06:06] You were like, I've never been, I've never had a violent urge in my life.

[00:06:09] But if someone was to hurt my daughter.

[00:06:12] Oh, right.

[00:06:12] And you, and you were like, I would, I would kill them.

[00:06:17] I was like, whoa.

[00:06:18] Whoa.

[00:06:18] I was like, that's such an unbred thing to say.

[00:06:22] And you're like, and you're like, I never, you know, my recollection of it is like, you're

[00:06:26] like, I never thought I could feel that way.

[00:06:28] But it's like, as soon as I had my daughter, I was just like a hundred percent.

[00:06:30] I would, you know, I'd die for this little person.

[00:06:32] I'd do anything.

[00:06:33] And I was like, whoa.

[00:06:35] I think being a dad must be very emotional.

[00:06:38] It's a big change.

[00:06:40] It does a lot to you.

[00:06:41] No, I think that's, it is weird, right?

[00:06:43] I do think.

[00:06:44] It just made me think it was like, okay, so being a father really changes you.

[00:06:47] And I guess because we were like similar ages, I was like, okay, that's, that's like, that's

[00:06:50] what awaits.

[00:06:51] So in a funny way, I'd always kind of had it in my, in my mind that, you know, you taught

[00:06:56] me one of the early lessons, the bigness of the feelings.

[00:06:59] One of the lessons to.

[00:07:00] Avenge.

[00:07:02] Avenge any physical violence.

[00:07:04] With violence.

[00:07:05] Eye for an eye.

[00:07:05] You taught me eye for an eye.

[00:07:08] That's Brett McKenzie's legs.

[00:07:10] This is, okay.

[00:07:12] No, no.

[00:07:12] How do you parent that?

[00:07:14] But it, I mean, I know it's a strange one, but it came out, it came, you know, I think

[00:07:18] that's where I was sort of like, all right, there's something that I don't get yet as

[00:07:21] someone that doesn't have kids.

[00:07:22] That's like this big feeling that awaits.

[00:07:24] And then, you know, having seen you then with the kids and watching, you know, you're a

[00:07:28] very peaceful, loving, gorgeous dad.

[00:07:33] But with a, with a rifle.

[00:07:35] With no doubt.

[00:07:36] A false panel in their bedroom with an arsenal of weapons.

[00:07:40] In the car door.

[00:07:41] But it's so interesting because now this is like, yeah, 13 years later, 13 years later.

[00:07:45] So you obviously must feel like a much different dad.

[00:07:49] Like, do you remember, you know, who you are now?

[00:07:52] Do you look back at sort of, you know, 13 years ago and what, what would you say has changed

[00:07:56] in those years?

[00:07:57] It's, it's interesting.

[00:07:59] I think at the beginning you've, I was very keen, you know, and engaged and enthusiastic.

[00:08:08] And if I was being perfectly honest, now I'm tired and borderline grumpy and have to really

[00:08:18] dig in.

[00:08:19] Yeah.

[00:08:20] To, to be as active.

[00:08:22] Dig in it like energy wise.

[00:08:24] Yeah.

[00:08:24] That's what you notice happening over those 13 years.

[00:08:26] Yeah.

[00:08:26] I think that's over, over that long period of time.

[00:08:28] Yeah.

[00:08:28] You know, at the beginning, you're like, oh, this is so cool.

[00:08:31] We're going to do this.

[00:08:31] Well, also my kids, I'm like, I've kind of, that's past that childhood bit.

[00:08:36] Yeah.

[00:08:37] All the like teaching them to ride a bike and stuff.

[00:08:39] That's all, all the sort of dreamy childhood stuff is slipping away as they're head at teenagers.

[00:08:45] You know?

[00:08:45] Like the montage stuff.

[00:08:46] The montage stuff is, is there's still a little bit with our youngest one, but the older ones

[00:08:51] are not in the adorable montage section.

[00:08:54] No.

[00:08:55] Yeah.

[00:08:55] Yeah.

[00:08:55] So that has changed.

[00:08:56] And, and yeah, that's probably, so to, yeah, to like when we had a third kid, it was so tough.

[00:09:04] Like, to be honest, like you've got the one that they're adorable, the cute, the two really

[00:09:10] cute.

[00:09:10] And then the third one, you are just a wreck.

[00:09:12] You're just lying down, dragging yourself around and it's an absolute blur.

[00:09:19] And you're not really thinking about how am I going to make this fun?

[00:09:24] You're more like, okay.

[00:09:25] I remember waking up going, I can't wait to go back to bed.

[00:09:29] That was it.

[00:09:30] That's what, that's how we were so tired.

[00:09:32] So tired.

[00:09:35] Oh my God.

[00:09:36] So, but still loving it.

[00:09:39] But, um.

[00:09:40] But the energy required, as you say, like to get up and about and to love it, it becomes,

[00:09:44] I even find that now I'm only, you know, 10 years in, but you go, it's noticeable.

[00:09:49] That's probably just the combination of like you're getting older and then, and they're

[00:09:53] becoming more complex as well.

[00:09:54] So you're having to focus more on creating the environment for fun than perhaps as effortlessly

[00:10:02] as it came 10 years ago.

[00:10:03] That's right.

[00:10:04] And they're not around as much.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:06] They're not, you're not there.

[00:10:07] They're not in the, they're around obviously.

[00:10:09] They still live in, they still live with us.

[00:10:12] They still live at home.

[00:10:13] Oh wow.

[00:10:14] Whoa.

[00:10:15] Okay.

[00:10:15] So you're real helicopter parents.

[00:10:16] So you're 13, you're a living home.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:19] Um, but that would be, I think that would be the, the difference.

[00:10:24] And I don't know.

[00:10:24] Well, I guess also it's funny at school, I'm now one of the older dads, right?

[00:10:30] Oh yeah.

[00:10:30] So I'm actually one of the like old hands.

[00:10:34] Of course.

[00:10:34] So for your youngest as you're there in the playground and they're like, oh wow.

[00:10:39] Well.

[00:10:40] He, he decided to go have a kid late in life.

[00:10:42] Yeah.

[00:10:42] Oh, that's right.

[00:10:44] But the, the, the sports day, you know, it's like, I was kidding.

[00:10:48] I got caught into it.

[00:10:49] I ran the parents race.

[00:10:50] Did you really?

[00:10:51] I ran the parents race.

[00:10:52] I've never done it.

[00:10:52] I'm just, and won.

[00:10:53] I won the parents race.

[00:10:55] That's the biggest sporting achievement of my life.

[00:10:58] Well, how far was the race?

[00:10:59] Oh, about 40 meters.

[00:11:03] We're just going to run until the last man standing hasn't snapped a hamstring.

[00:11:07] And it took about 40 meters.

[00:11:08] But, but now I'm like, oh, I'm like, feel probably a bit worried if I did the race.

[00:11:17] He shouldn't run.

[00:11:18] But it's true, isn't it?

[00:11:20] Like the, the age creep sneaks up.

[00:11:22] Yeah.

[00:11:22] So much.

[00:11:23] Yeah.

[00:11:23] And so, but that thing of, yeah, I guess so now theoretically I know what I'm doing,

[00:11:31] but I don't know if I'm, yeah, you've got some experience, right?

[00:11:35] Because you've done, I've done three kids, tried different techniques on things that worked

[00:11:40] on one.

[00:11:40] You might try the other one.

[00:11:41] Obviously it doesn't work on that one because they're different.

[00:11:43] And then, but there is, that's very different to the beginning when you're just fresh and

[00:11:48] like, huh, what do I do?

[00:11:49] I'm going to be the best at this.

[00:11:50] Like I'm assuming parks every day.

[00:11:52] Yeah.

[00:11:53] Yeah.

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:54] Batteries are finite.

[00:11:55] Batteries are finite.

[00:11:57] Now I assume tired and grumpy and not your like three, part of your three cornerstones

[00:12:02] of parenting, but why don't we start there with your three words?

[00:12:04] My three philosophers?

[00:12:06] Grumpiness.

[00:12:06] Really great.

[00:12:07] Really great.

[00:12:08] Really lets them know where you're at.

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:11] What are your three?

[00:12:12] What are your three?

[00:12:12] Okay.

[00:12:13] My, my first one is time, spending time with the kids.

[00:12:19] So, and this for me comes from, I grew up, my dad was not around.

[00:12:26] So I think this is probably the biggest, like.

[00:12:32] Change or cycle.

[00:12:34] Change or actively wanted to achieve this.

[00:12:36] Do you know what I mean?

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:37] I know exactly what you mean.

[00:12:38] I've gone like, no, no.

[00:12:38] I want to be a dad who's around.

[00:12:40] Yeah.

[00:12:40] So that set me up on a path where it was like, okay, well, I'm going to be around.

[00:12:46] And, and the, the, because me and my brothers, we grew up with my mom.

[00:12:51] Dad was around a little bit, but he would come in, you know, with toys from an overseas

[00:12:55] trip and a microwave, the latest invention.

[00:12:58] And then he'd like.

[00:13:00] God, this must have been recent.

[00:13:02] Microwave in New Zealand.

[00:13:03] Yeah.

[00:13:03] Yeah.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:04] I'm a lot younger than I look.

[00:13:06] And, uh.

[00:13:07] Whoa.

[00:13:09] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:13:10] Rewind.

[00:13:11] Hang on a minute.

[00:13:12] What, um, what, what did your dad do?

[00:13:14] What was.

[00:13:15] He was a lawyer slash horse trainer, breeder slash actor.

[00:13:22] Really?

[00:13:23] Yeah.

[00:13:24] Wow.

[00:13:24] Um, so mostly horses though, mostly devoted his life to, uh, gambling by training racehorses.

[00:13:32] Okay.

[00:13:32] But had, had a legal background as well.

[00:13:34] But also legal.

[00:13:35] So he would go into litigation if the horses didn't win.

[00:13:40] It's the perfect system.

[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:42] If they win, I'm rich.

[00:13:43] If they lose, I'll sue the shit out of them.

[00:13:45] He was very popular at the track.

[00:13:46] They're like, oh, not this guy.

[00:13:48] And anyway, so he is off training racehorses.

[00:13:53] And I'm growing up with my brothers and my, my mom, you know, raised us and she's a ballet

[00:13:59] teacher.

[00:13:59] Yeah.

[00:13:59] So she would teach in the afternoons, teach classes to kids.

[00:14:03] And you did ballet to us.

[00:14:04] I did ballet.

[00:14:04] For how long?

[00:14:05] Well, because that was free babysitting.

[00:14:07] Right.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:07] Right.

[00:14:07] So I did it till I was about 14.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:10] Awesome.

[00:14:10] And then, so that was after school, I'd do that.

[00:14:13] And, or we'd have babysitters who are often students of my mom's who would come and cook

[00:14:17] us all dinner.

[00:14:18] And then she'd come home at about eight o'clock.

[00:14:20] So, but her dad lived across the road and he was probably the most father figure like

[00:14:26] guy in the, in the family because he would be there in the evenings every night, smoking

[00:14:31] his pipe, drinking cups of tea, checking in and seeing what's going on.

[00:14:35] He was the one who would drive us to cricket on the Saturday mornings.

[00:14:38] So apart from the physical act of being there, was, was there stuff that you took from him,

[00:14:43] from your grandpa that whether you realized at the time or not, but there were there sheets

[00:14:47] from his playbook that you incorporated into your own?

[00:14:51] Well, I think it has had an impact because now he, I think that consistency of being

[00:14:57] there is the thing that I was like, this is so important.

[00:15:01] This feels good.

[00:15:02] This is, well, it's just, it's like crucial to me because, and so, so I wanted to be someone

[00:15:07] who was there and I could see how that has a, it's just, you can't like, you know, you

[00:15:14] can't just, my dad is fun and everything.

[00:15:17] It was good, but, but it's different.

[00:15:19] You just roll in for a day.

[00:15:22] Do you know what I mean?

[00:15:23] Microwaves.

[00:15:23] Giving you a microwave and a remote controlled car.

[00:15:27] And then, but if you're there every day, which I try to be, it's, it's amazing because

[00:15:35] you can't pick when the moments are going to be special or important or you need to be

[00:15:43] there.

[00:15:43] You can't really plan those or when the game might happen or when they have some problem

[00:15:48] that emerges.

[00:15:50] Um, so yeah, so that, so in a way I've completely turned my career towards working from home.

[00:15:58] Which I, I, you know, it's something I wanted to talk about too, because you really have an,

[00:16:02] I don't know too much of the details, but I know, you know, you're obviously you're in

[00:16:06] LA, you won an Oscar.

[00:16:08] Which for people that don't know, that's a great thing to win in LA.

[00:16:11] Very handy in LA.

[00:16:12] Very handy in LA.

[00:16:13] But around about that time, you made the call.

[00:16:16] We've never talked about this too much, but it seems like you made the call.

[00:16:19] What we want to live in Wellington and you came back.

[00:16:22] Yeah.

[00:16:22] So Hannah, my wife and I, we were, we thought we could live in LA very easily.

[00:16:27] It would have been.

[00:16:27] It would have been quite good.

[00:16:29] And, uh, career wise, you know, so much work there, but we thought, no, we want our

[00:16:34] kids to grow up in New Zealand.

[00:16:37] And then it was, it was around the time when the kids were starting to go to school that

[00:16:40] we were like, okay, we can't keep doing this ducking back and forth.

[00:16:43] And also once you have three kids going, traveling becomes madness.

[00:16:49] Totally.

[00:16:50] You know?

[00:16:50] And so that was about from my mass, like an 11 or 12 years ago, like a real quality of

[00:16:55] life call.

[00:16:57] Looking back on it, like what's, what's your feeling now about making that call?

[00:17:02] It's great because I don't think I will ever regret spending time with my kids.

[00:17:09] Of course.

[00:17:09] It would be some days, occasionally I'm about like, oh my God, these maniacs.

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:16] But that's like, that's like 1%.

[00:17:18] But that's also, it would be an unrealistic representation to not include that bit.

[00:17:23] Because I think for anyone, I'm, you know, I have a slightly similar story where I was

[00:17:28] like, well, I want to prioritize, you know, certainly in the last couple of years, not

[00:17:33] being away and just being around for the kids.

[00:17:36] With more volume of time, like you get more hard times as well as more good times too.

[00:17:41] That's just part of-

[00:17:42] That's true.

[00:17:43] The maths of increasing the volume, like both columns increase.

[00:17:47] But I kind of think that's the cost.

[00:17:50] Just, that's like, as well as the, all the sacrifices that you're making by, you know,

[00:17:53] not being away.

[00:17:54] Like, no, no.

[00:17:54] If I want the actual priority here to be, I want to be there for the good times.

[00:17:59] I'll just have to absorb some of the times that aren't going so great.

[00:18:02] I don't know if you feel this way, but sometimes, you know, even just recently, this pops into

[00:18:06] mind.

[00:18:06] I'm like, all right, I'm around a lot more and I'll have days where I get to the end

[00:18:11] of it and I go, I almost failed the whole day today.

[00:18:14] Like, I've had a fight with my wife.

[00:18:18] I've like messed up with my daughter.

[00:18:20] I've completely, like, I've just let something get to me completely wrong way with my son.

[00:18:25] So you're like, get to the end of the day and you go like, whoa, that's a zero.

[00:18:28] That's like, I really can't find too many things to score myself well on here.

[00:18:32] But then there is a part of me that goes, but at least you were there.

[00:18:35] Like, you know, that's the bit where you go, I suppose in an alternative reality,

[00:18:39] you could be like, all right, well, I'm out of here then if I'm not being effective.

[00:18:43] Yeah.

[00:18:43] But for you, it sounds like it was, you're like, even in those days, I still take the

[00:18:47] wind that I'm present.

[00:18:49] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:50] And now it's weird.

[00:18:51] I can't even, now I go away and I go, so I have to do work trips to LA and I go there

[00:18:56] and I try to go for five days or something like that or a week and I get there and I always

[00:19:01] land there and I'm like, oh, I wonder if I could go home a day earlier.

[00:19:05] As soon as I get there and you get to hotels and it's kind of quiet and lonely.

[00:19:09] Yeah.

[00:19:10] So it's interesting, I've become completely.

[00:19:12] That's your habitat.

[00:19:13] Your home.

[00:19:14] The house.

[00:19:14] And I'm very much a home body.

[00:19:17] Like, I think people imagine I'm quite jet set, but to be honest, I'm like, I'm less and

[00:19:24] less jet set.

[00:19:24] I'm very much garden around the house, playing music, fixing, dropping off.

[00:19:29] I can drop off, pick up school.

[00:19:31] I can do the runs to the, you know, to football practice.

[00:19:35] Because my job is writing things so I can just do it anytime.

[00:19:39] Anytime it pops into your head.

[00:19:40] Yeah.

[00:19:40] Is, as they get older, as you, especially your oldest two, are you finding it harder to, you

[00:19:46] know, because at the moment I'm in that early years stage, seven and 10, where you're like,

[00:19:51] okay, we've got school drop off.

[00:19:52] We've got many, many times I need to be around.

[00:19:54] But as the gravitational pull of friends starts to peel them away, like, are you getting less

[00:20:01] and less time where you can be, like, kind of have that one-on-one time with them?

[00:20:06] I thought that would happen, but I think the teenage years are equally as busy.

[00:20:12] It's weird.

[00:20:13] You're still, I'm very much an Uber driver in the house.

[00:20:16] I said to my kids, I said, I'm going to this podcast about being a dad.

[00:20:20] I said, what are things that you think I'm good at being a dad?

[00:20:23] And they said, you're good at driving us around.

[00:20:27] I was like, yeah.

[00:20:29] Your technique is-

[00:20:30] 15 years.

[00:20:32] 15 years of, like, a lot of-

[00:20:35] He's like-

[00:20:36] I got to hand it to you.

[00:20:37] Sometimes I'm in one spot and I need to be in another spot and you're always there.

[00:20:40] You're there.

[00:20:40] You're always there for us.

[00:20:42] And yeah, my son goes, yeah, you're a good chauffeur.

[00:20:44] You're a good chauffeur.

[00:20:45] Yeah.

[00:20:45] Okay.

[00:20:46] No more synonyms about driving.

[00:20:48] What else?

[00:20:50] But you-

[00:20:51] So there's an absurd amount of driving around.

[00:20:54] Apparently, I mean, you always look to people who've got older kids for what's coming up.

[00:20:58] You know, and I was thinking about that.

[00:21:00] You look to older kids, you don't really look to people with younger kids very much.

[00:21:03] You're like, oh, they're in the crawling phase.

[00:21:05] Oh, good luck with that.

[00:21:06] You're so uninvested.

[00:21:07] And someone's got a kid that's a year or two older.

[00:21:09] You're like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:21:09] What happens with this?

[00:21:10] Give me everything.

[00:21:10] What happens with the-

[00:21:11] We're teaching them to drive.

[00:21:13] How'd you do that?

[00:21:13] Door closed all over.

[00:21:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:21:15] And apparently once they can drive themselves, it lightens up.

[00:21:18] But at the moment, Hannah and I have very much of-

[00:21:21] We've got a second car to cope up with the driving to multiple, not even so, these sort

[00:21:27] of extracurricular activities.

[00:21:29] Well, all right.

[00:21:30] So we've got time spent in the car often.

[00:21:32] Time spent in the car.

[00:21:33] But what I was going to say is the driving is actually, you probably get this with your

[00:21:39] kids.

[00:21:39] Like there's something really cool happens when you're driving with your kids.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:43] When they're not looking at you.

[00:21:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:46] They will talk about things that they will open up about stuff that's happening.

[00:21:51] I had it said to me and I didn't get it until it started happening.

[00:21:54] Yeah.

[00:21:54] So you drive around and you're like, well, school, what's going on?

[00:21:56] And it's the random moment where you hear like, what's going on?

[00:21:59] And they reveal some weird little detail.

[00:22:02] We're like, what?

[00:22:03] Your friend just got punched in the playground?

[00:22:06] Okay.

[00:22:07] How did that go down?

[00:22:09] So is that normal?

[00:22:09] Just people getting punched in the playground?

[00:22:13] So that stuff's-

[00:22:14] It's critical.

[00:22:15] It's great.

[00:22:16] It's great.

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:17] I love that.

[00:22:17] All right.

[00:22:18] So time is one.

[00:22:18] What's number two?

[00:22:19] Time.

[00:22:26] Lucky being a creative person for a career.

[00:22:31] Yep.

[00:22:32] Making up games and playing with kids is pretty fun for me because-

[00:22:37] It came naturally.

[00:22:38] Pretty easy for me.

[00:22:39] And so I've spent all this time making up new games to adjust for their different requirements.

[00:22:47] Right?

[00:22:48] Can you give us some examples?

[00:22:49] Yeah, I thought I should write down some examples.

[00:22:51] Okay, awesome.

[00:22:56] Has this, the podcast been good for, like a lot of your guests have these amazing insights

[00:23:01] of like, they're like parenting experts.

[00:23:03] Right?

[00:23:03] And then I was like, I don't know that, but I've got this sort of like life hack, dad

[00:23:08] hack type games and stuff.

[00:23:10] So I wrote them down.

[00:23:11] Okay, you're great.

[00:23:12] What a gift.

[00:23:13] What a gift.

[00:23:15] I was, where are they here?

[00:23:17] Okay.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:19] Some people have said, when I was listening to your show, they say, oh, I feel, I don't

[00:23:25] feel like I can play.

[00:23:26] I'm not very good at playing or making stuff up.

[00:23:28] Yeah.

[00:23:28] I think it happens sometimes that people just feel stuck.

[00:23:32] Yeah.

[00:23:32] They don't know where to start.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:33] And so that's, for me, that's my job.

[00:23:36] So I do it, like literally I'll be on the phone talking about what would a unicorn do

[00:23:40] if it's stuck in a puddle?

[00:23:45] Like, how's it going to get out of the puddle?

[00:23:46] What are the options?

[00:23:48] That's actually your job.

[00:23:49] That's my work call.

[00:23:49] And then I go up to dinner with the kids.

[00:23:52] So anyway.

[00:23:53] Anyway, so, okay.

[00:23:56] Here's games around the house.

[00:23:58] Yep.

[00:23:59] And my kids are different ages, right?

[00:24:01] So they're older to younger.

[00:24:02] So I've tried to come up with games that work for different ages.

[00:24:05] This one, you're a security guard.

[00:24:07] Okay.

[00:24:08] You walk back and forth through the room or whatever the longest stretch.

[00:24:12] Are you the security guard?

[00:24:13] The parent is a security guard.

[00:24:14] I'm a security guard, right?

[00:24:15] You walk back and forth.

[00:24:17] In our house, you can go from, there's like a lounge.

[00:24:19] You can go upstairs a little bit into another area, right?

[00:24:23] And they start outside the house and they've got to break into the house, okay,

[00:24:27] and find some sort of treasure, whether that's a biscuit or a whatever it is,

[00:24:31] you know, or it doesn't even need, it could be an object that they get.

[00:24:35] But you can only see in front of you.

[00:24:37] But you walk back and forth and when you turn around, like a sort of an old...

[00:24:41] There are like video games like this too, yeah, where you can just see the field of vision.

[00:24:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:24:46] And obviously you can be as tough as you want.

[00:24:50] There's a gentleman's agreement.

[00:24:51] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:52] So you walk to one end, turn, come back, and they can creep around the house,

[00:24:58] hide behind things, sneak through, climb in the windows, climb in doors

[00:25:01] or whatever you've got until they can find the treasure and they get the treasure.

[00:25:04] Honestly, they play this.

[00:25:06] You can do this with their friends when they come down for a play date

[00:25:08] and they're like, can we play that game again?

[00:25:10] Come play it again.

[00:25:11] That's so good.

[00:25:11] So it's one of those games that they just keep requesting.

[00:25:14] Isn't it amazing though?

[00:25:15] Like the power of...

[00:25:16] I always think this, like you just don't need much.

[00:25:20] It's that 5% rule.

[00:25:21] It's like you just need a little bit of effort.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:24] And then it gathers momentum by itself.

[00:25:27] Like what it tells me is that it's just like obviously it means so much to the kid

[00:25:31] just to be like, you're in.

[00:25:33] Yeah, you're in.

[00:25:34] You're invested.

[00:25:35] You're paying attention.

[00:25:36] They're also sneaking around on you, which they love.

[00:25:39] Oh, I mean another classic.

[00:25:40] Any game with the kids, this was something I learned.

[00:25:44] If you've got a bunch of kids who are different ages or not getting old

[00:25:46] or something's going on, if you're the enemy, obviously is the great setup for your game.

[00:25:51] Give a common enemy.

[00:25:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:54] But so that's a good one.

[00:25:55] I love that.

[00:25:56] Okay, another one.

[00:25:56] Definitely stealing security guard.

[00:25:59] This one's...

[00:26:00] This is a different type of game.

[00:26:01] This is an impersonations game.

[00:26:03] Okay.

[00:26:04] This can be quite traumatic because this is a game where you're sitting at the dinner table

[00:26:12] and you do impersonations of each other in the family.

[00:26:16] Okay.

[00:26:16] So the kids do impersonations of you and you can do impersonations of them.

[00:26:21] And you have to...

[00:26:22] This one you do have to be...

[00:26:23] Sensitive.

[00:26:24] Yeah, you have to manage them because some children might be quite...

[00:26:29] Particularly on each other.

[00:26:30] Tent or roast.

[00:26:31] Pretty arse roast pretty quickly.

[00:26:33] Yeah, pretty arse pretty quickly.

[00:26:34] But obviously, like, it's so funny, right?

[00:26:38] Because first of all, you start gently ridiculing each other, which is, you know, in a good way.

[00:26:44] Everyone's comfortable.

[00:26:45] It's funny.

[00:26:46] But when the kids do impersonations of you and they did impersonations of me and Hannah, it was so confronting.

[00:26:56] Because their impersonation of Hannah was like, get in the...

[00:27:00] Get your shoes on!

[00:27:01] Press your teeth!

[00:27:02] Just this shouting crazy person.

[00:27:06] And then the impersonations of me were just like...

[00:27:08] Pulled their...

[00:27:09] They pulled their pants down.

[00:27:12] Like these shorts.

[00:27:14] I mean, like, my shorts aren't that baggy.

[00:27:17] They pulled their shorts down.

[00:27:19] And then they're like, just grunted.

[00:27:22] I was like, what is that?

[00:27:24] Just this grumpy dude with like his shorts falling off.

[00:27:30] It was...

[00:27:31] I was like...

[00:27:32] Oh, shit.

[00:27:33] And you're like, okay, okay.

[00:27:34] We're a mum and dad.

[00:27:35] They're in their bedroom crying because we did the impersonation game again.

[00:27:38] They couldn't handle it.

[00:27:40] Anyway, really good game.

[00:27:41] So fun.

[00:27:42] Really good game.

[00:27:42] Do yourself with them because immediately...

[00:27:45] I love this.

[00:27:47] You know, it's that thing of just picking something the right side of harsh.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:53] They didn't to you.

[00:27:54] But to the kids just to be like, this is the kind of thing we can laugh about with our

[00:27:58] friends because like then, you know, it's that...

[00:28:00] But I love it as an idea of like...

[00:28:02] Because such an important skill.

[00:28:06] To be able to laugh at yourself.

[00:28:07] It allows them to laugh at themselves.

[00:28:08] And also in this...

[00:28:10] I think it's a little bit of it.

[00:28:12] It's a dying art.

[00:28:14] That idea of going, yeah, we can...

[00:28:17] We rib each other as friends.

[00:28:19] Like that's what we do.

[00:28:20] Yeah.

[00:28:21] And then teaching them the difference between ribbing and like...

[00:28:23] And teasing.

[00:28:24] That pretty much happens in the game.

[00:28:26] We had...

[00:28:27] I had to step in and be like, okay, we're not doing the game anymore.

[00:28:30] That's just too mean.

[00:28:33] That's mean.

[00:28:34] That's actually mean, guys.

[00:28:36] You're just being mean.

[00:28:37] That's not funny.

[00:28:38] The person's crying.

[00:28:39] Okay, this game's terrible.

[00:28:41] Back to Security Patrol.

[00:28:45] Yeah.

[00:28:46] But really fun game.

[00:28:48] And you know, one weird thing is I've been...

[00:28:50] Sorry, just to finish on that.

[00:28:51] I like though that it involves a discussion of boundaries and how we interact with people.

[00:28:58] Yeah, and it makes them realize a bit about themselves.

[00:29:04] And so what happens is often, this is one technique I kind of apply to problems in the house.

[00:29:10] As long as I've had enough sleep.

[00:29:12] If the kid's grumpy or is angry about something, if I can make them laugh about the situation somehow.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] Which obviously you have to be treated very carefully, you know, because you don't want

[00:29:28] to upset them.

[00:29:29] But you also like point out something ridiculous about, maybe not exactly their emotion, but

[00:29:33] point something ridiculous about what's happening.

[00:29:36] If I can get them laugh, honestly, if you can get their crying or their screaming and then

[00:29:40] they start laughing at the same time, but still trying to be angry, but you've got them

[00:29:44] laughing as well.

[00:29:45] Oh, it's such a diffuser.

[00:29:47] It's beautiful.

[00:29:48] I'm just, since we're throwing up suggestions, I'll throw this one out there for free.

[00:29:50] It's not a guarantee to work.

[00:29:52] Like it just happens because like all comedy, it's very, depends on the crowd, depends on

[00:29:56] the venue.

[00:29:57] Oh yeah.

[00:29:57] Depends on the timing.

[00:29:58] But like, you know, doing the, undoing the dishwasher, that's one of my little boys jobs.

[00:30:04] And I remember as a kid, like there are some mornings where you're like, yeah, fine, I'll

[00:30:07] do it.

[00:30:07] There are other mornings where you're like, oh, this again, like this has come around again.

[00:30:11] So, and, and, you know, rather than the standard argument we have, which is like, mate, if

[00:30:14] you had just done it, instead of us having this long discussion about why do I have

[00:30:18] to do it, it would be over.

[00:30:19] Like it would have been done and you'd be back to doing it when you want.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:22] So then when I was like, oh, that argument doesn't go that well.

[00:30:24] It was like, oh, no, you're right.

[00:30:26] That's actually really clever.

[00:30:27] Like, thank you.

[00:30:28] Thank you for showing me adult rational logic.

[00:30:31] So the other morning I was like, let me, I'll, let me see how hard this is.

[00:30:34] Can't be that hard.

[00:30:35] Let me have a go.

[00:30:36] And I would pick up cups or cutlery or whatever and, and like pretend like weighed my hand down.

[00:30:40] I'll be pinned to the floor and just start screaming and like, help, help, help.

[00:30:44] Like this knife is too heavy.

[00:30:45] And got him, got him, cracked him up.

[00:30:48] And then we're laughing.

[00:30:50] And then I was like, okay.

[00:30:50] And then they went out.

[00:30:51] I was like, are you finished cleaning the dishes?

[00:30:54] Keep going, Dad.

[00:30:55] Keep going.

[00:30:56] Keep workshopping that.

[00:30:56] It's a bit faster.

[00:30:58] Keep showing me this funny joke.

[00:31:00] But I was like, that is a great, I was like, that got a laugh.

[00:31:03] They're rare though, because sometimes you go for the gag and.

[00:31:05] Oh yeah.

[00:31:06] Yeah.

[00:31:07] Especially with a teenager, you really, you're treating a very delicate emotional,

[00:31:11] because if they're having a tent, not a tantrum, but a, you know, meltdown.

[00:31:15] The jokes, jokes when they're little kids, we get a huge laugh.

[00:31:19] And then I remember about seven or eight eye rolls start coming in.

[00:31:22] Oh yeah.

[00:31:22] And the first few eye rolls, I'm like, oh, that's funny.

[00:31:24] That's like, I've never had one of those before, but mostly I'm still landing zingers.

[00:31:29] Oh yeah.

[00:31:33] And it just happens, right?

[00:31:34] Like it just, it's the dad joke metamorphosis.

[00:31:38] Like it just, then you kind of go, well, since I'm not getting laughs anymore,

[00:31:41] I guess I just crave eye rolls.

[00:31:42] So.

[00:31:43] Just go for the eye roll.

[00:31:44] That's not bad.

[00:31:45] Big eye roll.

[00:31:47] No, that's true.

[00:31:48] That's true.

[00:31:49] I used to kill.

[00:31:50] I used to kill.

[00:31:52] The comedy used to slay in the house.

[00:31:54] Now it's a very tough crowd.

[00:31:56] Now I'm just a washed up old like prop comic.

[00:32:01] Okay.

[00:32:02] Okay.

[00:32:03] Okay.

[00:32:03] Are you going to have time?

[00:32:04] Oh, please.

[00:32:05] Please.

[00:32:06] Okay.

[00:32:07] Driving.

[00:32:09] Perhaps when they're a bit younger than my kids are now.

[00:32:11] I mean, yeah, this, it's quite fun to let them navigate.

[00:32:15] Have you tried that one?

[00:32:16] So you're driving and you go, okay, you got to find our way home.

[00:32:19] So you're in town.

[00:32:20] That's good.

[00:32:20] And they say, go left.

[00:32:22] You're like, okay.

[00:32:23] Yay.

[00:32:24] It can take an hour to get home.

[00:32:26] A 10 minute drive.

[00:32:28] But they are so stoked.

[00:32:31] And you obviously have to like, oh, actually, we should probably,

[00:32:33] maybe we should take a right, you know, because they've got no idea

[00:32:36] what's going on.

[00:32:36] And it's amazing.

[00:32:37] We've done left six times in this corner.

[00:32:38] It's amazing to see these kids who you drive this,

[00:32:41] it's like the same road down to the swimming pool or whatever,

[00:32:44] where you go regularly.

[00:32:45] They've got no idea where they're going.

[00:32:48] No idea.

[00:32:48] My daughter, I mean, I don't want to throw her under the bus here,

[00:32:50] but we'll regularly go, where are we?

[00:32:54] And it can't be like, we're in our street.

[00:32:56] Like we're literally on the other end of our street.

[00:32:59] That's so good.

[00:33:00] Okay.

[00:33:01] What have I left for you?

[00:33:02] Okay.

[00:33:03] This next one is one my mum did when I was growing up,

[00:33:07] which I think is an astonishing game idea.

[00:33:12] She pretended to be a ballet teacher.

[00:33:13] Yeah.

[00:33:14] She got me for 14 years.

[00:33:16] So, yeah.

[00:33:18] I'd have a birthday party.

[00:33:19] Yep.

[00:33:19] She would get all my friends, blindfold us,

[00:33:23] go in the back of the station wagon, right?

[00:33:24] Put us in the car, drive us into the suburbs.

[00:33:27] All blindfolded.

[00:33:28] All blindfolded.

[00:33:29] If Wellington, to a suburb, you know, different suburb,

[00:33:32] like, you know, a couple of neighborhoods over.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:35] So, and then let us out and give us $20, right?

[00:33:40] And then we'd take our blindfolds

[00:33:41] and then we had to find our way back to my house, right?

[00:33:45] That's awesome.

[00:33:45] And she would go and just do a few odd jobs and stuff.

[00:33:50] Go to the supermarket, get some stuff for the party.

[00:33:53] And so it would take us a couple of hours to, like, find a bus.

[00:33:56] And there's no phones back then.

[00:33:58] You know, it's like we'd make our way into the city

[00:34:00] and then once we got to the city,

[00:34:01] we could find the – there's a cable car that goes up to where I grew up.

[00:34:06] But pretty amazing game, right?

[00:34:07] Really good.

[00:34:08] Yeah.

[00:34:09] Really good game.

[00:34:09] And Matt, like, so missing in this day and age too.

[00:34:12] Like, how young were you when she did that?

[00:34:15] Four.

[00:34:16] No, no.

[00:34:17] I think we were probably 10, 11, 12.

[00:34:21] Yeah, awesome.

[00:34:21] And that was the party.

[00:34:22] Probably intermediate age.

[00:34:23] So that was the party.

[00:34:24] Well, that was a solid part of the party, yeah.

[00:34:27] That was the bulk of that.

[00:34:29] Yeah.

[00:34:29] Did you do a Brett's party?

[00:34:31] Yeah.

[00:34:32] It was quite weird actually, bro.

[00:34:33] We got blindfolded and dropped in the middle of nowhere.

[00:34:36] I'm like, yeah, you're not going to Brett's party next year.

[00:34:40] We tried confessing.

[00:34:42] Diminishing numbers every year at my parties.

[00:34:44] Always had to invite new friends.

[00:34:48] Oh, man, that's so good.

[00:34:49] Okay, so hang on.

[00:34:50] Just so we managed to fit all this in.

[00:34:52] Time's a feature.

[00:34:53] Play is a great feature.

[00:34:55] What's the third?

[00:34:56] Third one.

[00:34:58] The third one I was thinking about was community, right?

[00:35:02] Great.

[00:35:03] So, and what I mean by that is I've really invested in the kind of school,

[00:35:12] the sports things, the clubs, the being around and meeting those people

[00:35:17] around the kid.

[00:35:18] So you meet their friends, you meet the friends' families.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:23] And through those connections, I think you really help the kids because you're kind

[00:35:31] of engaged and you know what's going on a little bit more.

[00:35:34] And when they talk about something happening, you know the kid.

[00:35:38] You're like, oh, yeah.

[00:35:39] Yeah.

[00:35:40] Samantha, yeah, yeah.

[00:35:41] They do that.

[00:35:42] And it's quite different because otherwise the stories are quite abstract.

[00:35:45] 100%.

[00:35:46] Coming back from school.

[00:35:47] Of course, yeah.

[00:35:47] Because I think about how I grew up, my parents, you know,

[00:35:50] I would join the odd club or whatever, but they didn't know where I was.

[00:35:54] It was, and again, no judgment.

[00:35:57] But it was, you know, I look back and the extracurricular stuff I did was sort of

[00:36:00] probably more seen as a blessing that I was like looking after myself.

[00:36:04] Oh, yeah.

[00:36:04] Which was getting out of the way.

[00:36:06] The total bonus.

[00:36:07] Just like, yeah, just go be busy.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:08] And it was up to you to find stuff you're into rather than, yes, you know,

[00:36:13] seeing my parents that actively involved in, yeah, that second or third layer.

[00:36:17] That thing happening, all those connections.

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:20] Well, but I think there was more community anyway probably just in society,

[00:36:26] the more connections, whereas everyone's so isolated now.

[00:36:29] But it was, so some examples, like one thing that's very strange for me

[00:36:34] is like I never really liked sports, right?

[00:36:36] I did a little bit of cricket at primary school, but I used to do like ballet practice

[00:36:42] while I was doing my cricket, you know, out in the field.

[00:36:45] Just a good place to do some chippets.

[00:36:46] Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:47] I do like a periway on my speed bowling, my fast bowling, just to like throw them.

[00:36:53] And they're like, what the, what's up with this?

[00:36:54] Where's he going?

[00:36:54] What's he doing?

[00:36:55] Is that a spin?

[00:36:57] Is there another pitch around here that he's running off to?

[00:37:01] And so I did a little bit of sport, but then I got into music, theatre,

[00:37:06] and I hated sport.

[00:37:08] I was like, I got so angry about rugby.

[00:37:09] In New Zealand rugby is just everywhere.

[00:37:12] It just annoyed me because it just sort of people would,

[00:37:14] and the radio is always talking about rugby.

[00:37:16] Even now when the sports news comes on, I turn it off.

[00:37:20] It just makes me, I get a bit frustrated by how sports-centric New Zealand is.

[00:37:26] But then my kids have joined these football teams, and I was like, okay,

[00:37:31] you know, I'll take them to football.

[00:37:32] I'm like, well, it's just football.

[00:37:33] It doesn't really matter.

[00:37:33] Kick the ball.

[00:37:34] It doesn't matter.

[00:37:34] Just kick the ball.

[00:37:35] I don't know the rules.

[00:37:36] I don't know what's going on.

[00:37:37] And there was one.

[00:37:38] My daughter started, then my son started, and then now I've got three kids

[00:37:41] going to football.

[00:37:42] So every weekend there are three football games, three football practices.

[00:37:47] In the weekends we're fully booked with football, right?

[00:37:49] But you're football mad.

[00:37:50] I'm football mad.

[00:37:51] And I was like, I went from being, but I love the fact that you meet the parents

[00:37:55] along the, you know, and you chat and you hear the connections

[00:37:58] and you start hearing stories and you, you know, you learn about what's going on

[00:38:03] with those kids and get little parenting tips and stuff, you know.

[00:38:09] But it's just astonishing.

[00:38:10] I went from not knowing what was, I don't even know the rules,

[00:38:14] but then I started learning the rules and I started shouting out to my kids,

[00:38:19] it's like, because I learned about offside.

[00:38:21] I didn't really know what offside was.

[00:38:22] I was like, oh, you've got to get back to that line.

[00:38:24] You've got to retreat to that line.

[00:38:25] Get back to the line, Leo.

[00:38:27] What are you doing?

[00:38:28] And I became this maniac shouting, like actually like shouting instructions,

[00:38:32] trying to improve the strategy of these social football games.

[00:38:35] Brand you to the game.

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:36] And they'd be staring at me like, can you like shut up?

[00:38:40] Go back to not knowing the rules.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:42] Well, then, and then afterwards they're like, I'm like, yeah, did you hear me?

[00:38:44] I was telling you, you've got to get up that defensive.

[00:38:46] We've all got to push back to that line because it improves the defense.

[00:38:49] You can force an offside.

[00:38:51] And they're like, that's not the rule, dad.

[00:38:53] You've got it wrong.

[00:38:54] The rule doesn't work like that.

[00:38:55] I was getting the rules.

[00:38:55] I didn't even know the rules properly.

[00:38:57] Anyway, it's just amazing that change.

[00:38:59] And now, yeah, now I'm like, now I've learned.

[00:39:03] Then we got this email with my son's team.

[00:39:05] He's at high school.

[00:39:07] Parents, can you please just positive encouragement from the side of the game?

[00:39:14] And I can't believe I've gone from like anti-sports to this maniac.

[00:39:19] Reprimanded.

[00:39:19] Yeah.

[00:39:20] Anyway, I've really learned.

[00:39:21] One thing I've learned is, yeah, just be positive to their.

[00:39:24] To their community.

[00:39:25] Their playing.

[00:39:26] And then, well, I guess the community thing is you're kind of connecting with those families.

[00:39:31] And where we live, it's really about the.

[00:39:35] I was lucky.

[00:39:35] I grew up in an area where I stayed in the same place.

[00:39:38] Unless it was your birthday.

[00:39:40] Yeah.

[00:39:40] Unless it was my birthday.

[00:39:41] I had to meet new people.

[00:39:43] New suburb.

[00:39:44] But I made those friendships in the neighborhood.

[00:39:47] And so our kids, we live in a neighborhood.

[00:39:49] You go to the park and you bump into people you know.

[00:39:52] You walk to school, you know the people from school who live in those houses.

[00:39:54] That's such a beautiful.

[00:39:55] I love all that stuff.

[00:39:56] I feel like that's such a beautiful, like, Wellington thing.

[00:39:59] Like, that's so.

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:01] We have it in Australia too, of course.

[00:40:02] Yeah.

[00:40:02] But it's just your.

[00:40:03] If you invest in your neighborhood.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:06] It pays off massively.

[00:40:08] Yeah.

[00:40:08] I reckon.

[00:40:09] I think it's so good.

[00:40:10] And then.

[00:40:10] And it's what is the.

[00:40:11] That is what is the beautiful thing about, you know, any local sports club, any grassroots

[00:40:15] club.

[00:40:17] Nothing about.

[00:40:18] Especially, you know.

[00:40:19] Especially under 15s, you know.

[00:40:23] And below.

[00:40:23] Yeah.

[00:40:24] At no point is it about high performance or scoring.

[00:40:27] Yeah.

[00:40:28] Mostly.

[00:40:28] Mostly.

[00:40:29] You do get some.

[00:40:30] Not everyone's.

[00:40:31] Yeah.

[00:40:31] There are some maniacs who like shouting instructions from the start of the game.

[00:40:34] Yeah.

[00:40:34] That's true.

[00:40:34] But like, no.

[00:40:35] Never is the message from the club or the coaches or any of the community.

[00:40:40] Hey, it's all about winning.

[00:40:41] Like, of course not.

[00:40:42] The, you know, I wasn't that sporty growing up too.

[00:40:45] And so it came to a bit later in life.

[00:40:47] And especially now through the kids, you're just like, there's so.

[00:40:50] To the point where like our kids aren't even that.

[00:40:53] They could take or leave organized sport.

[00:40:56] And I'm like, no, no.

[00:40:57] You have to do a team sport.

[00:40:58] Right.

[00:40:59] You can do anything you want.

[00:41:00] Yeah.

[00:41:00] But for that social connection.

[00:41:01] Yeah.

[00:41:02] And to learn how to be part of a team.

[00:41:03] And for the community element.

[00:41:05] Yeah.

[00:41:06] You got to be part of it.

[00:41:08] One slight take on community that I wanted to talk to you about is, you know, another interpretation

[00:41:13] of community is finding your people.

[00:41:16] Right.

[00:41:17] And the importance that I think, you know, I know we both experienced this growing up,

[00:41:23] you know, in probably similar zones.

[00:41:24] Like you find your, you find your people.

[00:41:28] Like for you it was like theater and comedy and performing and pretty similar on my side

[00:41:32] of the fence.

[00:41:32] But you, you feel it as a kid, like what it unlocks in you once you found your people.

[00:41:39] Is that an important, does that play a role in your mind where you go, okay, I want to

[00:41:43] do what I can to, you know, nurture the kids to find their people if and when that happens?

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:49] Yeah.

[00:41:49] I guess the, I'm always looking out for that thing that they show interest in.

[00:41:54] One thing that was quite funny, we, my, my daughter, we, I'm, I'm not sure, but I think this is how this

[00:42:01] happened.

[00:42:01] And she's, she's become really interested in underwater hockey.

[00:42:06] Right.

[00:42:06] Wow.

[00:42:06] Which is a game where you play hockey with a snorkel.

[00:42:10] And you, this is not something you'd expect someone to become interested.

[00:42:13] It's not like, oh, she's been talking about underwater hockey since she was four.

[00:42:15] The hardest part is hearing about it in the first place.

[00:42:17] Yeah.

[00:42:18] Yeah.

[00:42:18] It's a very niche sport.

[00:42:21] But what was funny is I, I'm pretty sure, and this is an example of listening, then this

[00:42:26] comes, this is what I'm talking about, spending time with them.

[00:42:28] We go down to local swimming pool.

[00:42:30] There's these diving boards.

[00:42:32] My son was into the diving board.

[00:42:34] We were playing there and they played a game where they could hold their breath and just

[00:42:39] sort of float down to the bottom of the pool as you do.

[00:42:42] And my daughter and my son are quite competitive because they're very close in age.

[00:42:47] But my daughter was like, oh, she was really good at touching the bottom of this really

[00:42:51] deep pool.

[00:42:52] So she, you know, we went home that night.

[00:42:53] She was like, yeah, I'm actually really good at diving.

[00:42:55] I'm really good at diving.

[00:42:56] You know, I was like, you know, just holding my breath and sinking or whatever that is.

[00:43:00] And I was like, yeah, that's, yeah, that's a skill you've got.

[00:43:02] You know.

[00:43:03] You're probably our family's best sinker.

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:06] She's, I mean, she's a teenager.

[00:43:07] Sounds about harsh.

[00:43:08] But like, so there was this one little tiny little nugget.

[00:43:11] I was actually quite good at that, you know.

[00:43:13] And then she was like looking at those free diving things, you know.

[00:43:15] Wow.

[00:43:15] She said, I might become a free diver.

[00:43:17] I was like, okay.

[00:43:18] I was like, this doesn't sound like a good future.

[00:43:20] But okay, okay.

[00:43:22] If that's what you're into.

[00:43:23] But, and then.

[00:43:24] Fascinating.

[00:43:24] But isn't that, there's that like glimmer of.

[00:43:26] I reckon it was that little moment.

[00:43:28] Glimmer of mastery of something.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:30] Or like I could, I've already felt what it's like to be better than one person.

[00:43:35] And I wonder if I.

[00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] Comparatively.

[00:43:36] So then she joins this team, this game where you have to hold your breath and play on the

[00:43:40] bottom of the pool.

[00:43:41] She's really good at it.

[00:43:43] Unreal.

[00:43:44] So now we're like, every Friday night we're down at this pool.

[00:43:46] She's swimming around with her snorkel on.

[00:43:48] And she's so into it.

[00:43:50] That's awesome.

[00:43:51] Yeah.

[00:43:51] But to your point of you never know when it's going to happen too, right?

[00:43:54] Like.

[00:43:55] Nah.

[00:43:55] If you weren't there that night.

[00:43:57] I know.

[00:43:57] And I wonder if you look back at that story and go, so what helped her go from glimmer

[00:44:02] to I'm actually down registering.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:06] I would hazard a guess it's the fact it's you and Hannah.

[00:44:09] It's you and your wife being around, being like listening and being attuned to it to go,

[00:44:14] all right, let's help you fan this flame.

[00:44:16] Yeah.

[00:44:17] And that alone, that thing, that conversation of going, yeah, you were good at that.

[00:44:20] You were really good at that.

[00:44:21] Yeah.

[00:44:22] It's like, it was crazy that that little moment, I mean, who knows what she'll end up doing.

[00:44:27] She's given birth to one of New Zealand's best underwater hockey players.

[00:44:30] Exactly.

[00:44:32] It's so strange, right?

[00:44:33] Anyway, yeah.

[00:44:34] That was a sweet, sweet little nugget of watching them find their little things they like doing.

[00:44:45] Their thing.

[00:44:45] I mean, and that is the best bit about parenting too.

[00:44:47] Because you're like, we all dream of having the underwater hockey moment a bit because you're like,

[00:44:53] I don't need you to like, I don't want you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a violin player

[00:44:57] or like a football star, like the predictable courses.

[00:45:00] Like, please find.

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:01] What is it?

[00:45:03] Because there's always, I mean, it's great for the kids that do become lawyers and doctors

[00:45:06] and football stars.

[00:45:07] That's awesome.

[00:45:08] But I would always have in that back of my mind, I'm like, but are you sure this is what

[00:45:11] you definitely love doing?

[00:45:13] Like, you know, I want to.

[00:45:14] Yeah.

[00:45:15] Yeah.

[00:45:15] I want to know in my heart that you feel it in your heart.

[00:45:18] But it's so obvious because you can see when they find something they like doing.

[00:45:22] Well, it's obvious to me because they get up by themselves to do it.

[00:45:27] That's the test.

[00:45:27] My son's really into running and he'll be up by him.

[00:45:32] He gets up and I hear clinking and he's making his breakfast because he's got to get up and

[00:45:35] he wakes me up.

[00:45:36] Dad, you've got to drive me to school now.

[00:45:37] So that's a big shift from kids who would need to be got, you know, woken up and got out

[00:45:44] of bed.

[00:45:44] I love that.

[00:45:45] The test is, did they get up?

[00:45:46] Pretty obvious.

[00:45:48] When they're getting you up to go and do the thing, I think you like this.

[00:45:52] So I bet underwater hockey is something that if your kid's not into it, you could tell

[00:45:58] pretty fast.

[00:45:59] Get in there.

[00:46:00] We're going.

[00:46:01] Get back to the bottom of the pool.

[00:46:02] Hold your breath.

[00:46:04] Yeah.

[00:46:05] That was terrible.

[00:46:06] My dad was an underwater hockey player.

[00:46:08] His dad was an underwater hockey player.

[00:46:10] You're playing it like you're above water.

[00:46:12] Get back under there.

[00:46:15] So I was quite lucky with some of the kids when they find something they like doing and

[00:46:19] I could help support it.

[00:46:21] That's what we're looking for, right?

[00:46:22] Yeah, totally.

[00:46:24] But one challenge is, as a dad, is when they find something they're interested in and it's

[00:46:29] really something you can't do and you can't help.

[00:46:34] What do you mean?

[00:46:35] Well, because I'm really confident with all the music and the creative type stuff.

[00:46:40] Yep.

[00:46:40] My youngest son is really into building things.

[00:46:43] Oh.

[00:46:44] And it's quite a traditional dad role.

[00:46:45] And I think I want to be.

[00:46:47] I would love.

[00:46:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:48] I know that.

[00:46:48] I would love to be able to use tools and stuff.

[00:46:51] Totally.

[00:46:51] But I'm pretty bad on the tools, right?

[00:46:56] But I think I would like to be better than I am.

[00:46:58] I always talk.

[00:46:59] I don't know if this exists, but how good would it be to find out there was like a four-week

[00:47:03] basics course you could go and do?

[00:47:06] I would disappear from the house.

[00:47:08] And so you can come out after four weeks to go like, well, I've got a bit of announcement

[00:47:12] for the family.

[00:47:13] I'm semi-competent with tools.

[00:47:15] Honestly, when I fix something very small, like just, you know, turn a screw through.

[00:47:21] Can't wait to tell them.

[00:47:22] Hannah is so impressed by me.

[00:47:23] It's far more impressive than anything else I achieve in my career.

[00:47:27] Yeah.

[00:47:28] But so my son, he's like, he's just sort of a real gift for.

[00:47:32] Just mechanical.

[00:47:33] Building.

[00:47:34] He likes building stuff.

[00:47:35] He's always like building these little strings that open up things in his room.

[00:47:38] Oh, unreal.

[00:47:38] And he was like, he's like, dad, I want to build a go-kart.

[00:47:41] I'm like, yeah, I want to build a go-kart.

[00:47:43] That's like a classic son, dad activity.

[00:47:45] It's literally the Simpsons episode about father-son bonding.

[00:47:49] Is the soapbox David Racer.

[00:47:51] We're doing it.

[00:47:52] Okay.

[00:47:53] We'll get some, and we got onto the Bunnings.

[00:47:56] Do you guys have Bunnings?

[00:47:57] We do.

[00:47:57] The shop has wood and stuff and tools.

[00:48:01] I'm starting to show my, you're starting to get an idea of my-

[00:48:05] Bunnings, the shop with wooden tools.

[00:48:10] So I'm out of my depth.

[00:48:11] I'm out of my depth.

[00:48:13] You guys have wooden tools here, yeah?

[00:48:15] I've seen the ads.

[00:48:17] So we find some wheels and an axle thing.

[00:48:20] I'm like, okay, cool.

[00:48:20] This is good.

[00:48:21] Then we'll get some bits of wood.

[00:48:23] Then Eden pulls up these videos on YouTube of the cart he wants to make.

[00:48:28] And YouTube is a curse for parents trying to do stuff.

[00:48:32] His go-kart he wants has like-

[00:48:34] Yeah, he can next out see the whole world of what's available.

[00:48:36] He wants like the best go-kart a parent could ever make

[00:48:39] because it's a video that shows up at the top of the list.

[00:48:41] Totally.

[00:48:41] It has like 10 million views.

[00:48:43] And it's amazing.

[00:48:44] And it's got like, it's got a steering wheel.

[00:48:46] It's got a seat in it.

[00:48:47] You weren't going to put a seat in.

[00:48:48] Oh, no.

[00:48:49] I was imagining some wheels on four bits of wood.

[00:48:53] Maybe a bit of string that you turn a little bit.

[00:48:55] It would need a seat.

[00:48:56] I haven't got that.

[00:48:59] So anyway, I've been trying.

[00:49:01] Honestly, I'm two years in and we still just got the wheels still in the garage.

[00:49:05] And occasionally Eden's like, when are we going to work on the go-kart?

[00:49:08] Yeah.

[00:49:08] So it's like, it's a real, it's a real, it's a tough spot for me because I can't do it.

[00:49:14] But would you like to learn?

[00:49:16] I would.

[00:49:16] I just feel like I'm letting him down.

[00:49:18] But yeah, it's a tricky one.

[00:49:20] It's a tricky one.

[00:49:21] I get it.

[00:49:21] And his, yeah, and Leo, his older brother's like, this is why Jeff's never going to make this.

[00:49:29] Eden's still like open-eyed.

[00:49:32] And Leo's like, nah, mate, he's not good at that stuff.

[00:49:35] He'll teach you drums.

[00:49:38] But what I love is there are probably a lot of guys listening to this who were like super good with tools.

[00:49:44] They were like, mate, come on.

[00:49:46] It was like taking like, you know.

[00:49:47] It's not that hard, mate.

[00:49:48] Two days.

[00:49:49] But this is what I love about human beings is everyone's good at something and then everyone's good at something else, right?

[00:49:54] Like if their kid came to them and was like, hey, Dad, could you write me a song on guitar?

[00:49:59] I'd be like, okay, well, we'll have to learn the tabs.

[00:50:02] Definitely just message me on Instagram and I'll do it because that's pretty easy, mate.

[00:50:05] But like there's, so now I'm not sure what the solution is.

[00:50:08] And I think probably the, you know what?

[00:50:10] I think the move I should do is I should find someone to help him who can fill that role, right?

[00:50:21] I've got to let it go.

[00:50:22] Because I'm holding on.

[00:50:23] I'm holding on to want to be the super dad and make a go-kart.

[00:50:26] Yeah, so you've basically just sandbagged the project for two years.

[00:50:28] Oh, yeah, we're still working on that.

[00:50:30] It's like building a massive bridge or something.

[00:50:34] Waiting for consent.

[00:50:37] Mate, I haven't heard back from the council.

[00:50:41] But the permit hasn't come through.

[00:50:42] It's terrible.

[00:50:43] But that is, you know, you can still be by his side and, you know, as he learns.

[00:50:49] But you know what?

[00:50:50] There's something in that, isn't there?

[00:50:51] Like I've got to let that one, or I've got to find this course.

[00:50:56] Yeah.

[00:50:57] Or, I mean, you go, okay, I'm actually recommitted to this.

[00:51:00] Here's 10 steps that we're going to go through and we're going to learn how to together.

[00:51:05] Because I sometimes think highlighting your, like, weaknesses or, like, you know, areas you're not strong in is fun to the kids to just also teach them the lesson that, hey, like, it can be fun not knowing anything.

[00:51:17] And, you know, the lesson can be fun to learn.

[00:51:20] So if you're like, all right, let's actually do this next eight weekends.

[00:51:23] We're going to – here's the step-by-step process.

[00:51:26] And we're going to, like, learn how to do each step.

[00:51:29] And then at the end, you know.

[00:51:30] Yeah.

[00:51:31] It was going to be like, it's not going to be perfect.

[00:51:32] It'll probably be full of mistakes.

[00:51:35] But I think if we learn together, then we're going to come out of this and we'll have something we both can be proud of.

[00:51:40] That is a brilliant plan.

[00:51:43] I'm going to – I mean, to be honest, I'm pretty bad at managing to respond to an email, but I'm going to try and build a go-kart.

[00:51:50] Well, guess who's just invited themselves back for season four as we see if Brett made his go-kart.

[00:51:58] Enter the Wellington go-kart champs.

[00:52:01] That's it.

[00:52:02] Yeah.

[00:52:02] I mean, I think people are going to – people are invested now.

[00:52:05] Maybe now that you put it out publicly, this is going to force you to do it.

[00:52:09] We're going to get a lot.

[00:52:09] I'm going to forward on every email we get.

[00:52:11] You got any images?

[00:52:13] How's that going?

[00:52:14] Yeah, I've been on Instagram looking at Brett kart progress.

[00:52:17] I haven't uploaded anything for four weeks.

[00:52:20] Oh, man.

[00:52:20] Well, good luck.

[00:52:21] Yeah.

[00:52:22] That's beautiful.

[00:52:23] Well, I suppose the other thing too is creativity, right?

[00:52:26] Like you have been, you know, phenomenally successful, but more importantly than that, you know,

[00:52:34] you've got to have such an interesting and prolific career and done so much fun stuff along the way

[00:52:39] and created that path and taken those opportunities.

[00:52:43] Yeah, so lucky though.

[00:52:43] All these fun things, yeah.

[00:52:44] Taken those opportunities and put so much beautiful stuff into the world.

[00:52:48] And, you know, you must feel, you know, that, you know, in the sense that success is a measure

[00:52:53] of like do you get to spend your day in a really fun way and working with good people

[00:52:57] and producing great stuff, like highly successful in that sense that you get to pursue your passion.

[00:53:03] Is creativity and musicality something that you were ever wanting to pass on to the kids

[00:53:09] or was it more just sort of like, hey, it's around if you guys are into it?

[00:53:12] Or what was your policy there?

[00:53:15] Yeah, that's a good question.

[00:53:17] Because a lot of people ask me, oh, do you teach your kids music?

[00:53:20] How do you teach them?

[00:53:21] Do you teach them instruments?

[00:53:22] What do you do?

[00:53:23] And so music is super important to me for the kids to learn,

[00:53:29] but I'm incredibly cautious about it being the thing they least want to do because it's…

[00:53:36] That would break your heart.

[00:53:37] It would break my heart.

[00:53:38] So I don't know if this is going to work.

[00:53:42] I still don't know if I've…

[00:53:44] I'll tell you in 10 years probably, you know, I'm still…

[00:53:47] But they all learn instruments, learn piano and everything.

[00:53:50] They don't practice.

[00:53:52] They don't really like practicing.

[00:53:53] That's the one thing I really do dig in in a way that is not just the general,

[00:53:59] oh, we'll just follow it.

[00:54:00] If you like it, do it.

[00:54:01] We're going through exactly the same thing.

[00:54:03] It's tough, right, because I think the kids that love music will just start doing it.

[00:54:10] And they just…

[00:54:10] They like whatever that thing that brings light to them.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:14] It's just they do that.

[00:54:16] And I see that with people who I know became musicians.

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:21] And did you feel that in a kid too?

[00:54:23] Like…

[00:54:23] I love that.

[00:54:24] You know, I didn't practice that much piano.

[00:54:26] I would find it hard to practice.

[00:54:27] But what I do know is that if you do practice five minutes a day or whatever,

[00:54:33] it becomes fun.

[00:54:34] And I've seen it with the kids.

[00:54:36] If you can get them to do their five minutes, maybe 10 minutes a day,

[00:54:39] then they start sitting down just playing because they've got something they can play.

[00:54:44] Yeah.

[00:54:44] So it's such a tough balance because if they don't do it, it's terrible.

[00:54:50] Each lesson is a nightmare because they can't play it.

[00:54:52] They don't want to play it because they can't do it.

[00:54:53] And there's this constant feeling of being bad at it.

[00:54:54] It is a little battle and it's that my kids are all musical.

[00:54:58] Like we sing.

[00:54:59] It's funny when we sing Happy Birthday.

[00:55:02] It sounds really good.

[00:55:05] I'm like, yeah.

[00:55:07] We just sing like…

[00:55:08] And we're off.

[00:55:09] I'm like, yeah.

[00:55:10] It sounds like everyone's singing the same note.

[00:55:12] And sometimes you go to people's houses and they sing Happy Birthday.

[00:55:14] It's like, whoa, guys.

[00:55:15] Okay.

[00:55:16] Stop.

[00:55:17] Some notes.

[00:55:18] We'll take it back to the top.

[00:55:20] Give them one a chance.

[00:55:24] So they are musical.

[00:55:25] And I've tried this other thing.

[00:55:27] I put instruments around the house, right?

[00:55:29] So there's a guitar there and there's like a keyboard and another line.

[00:55:32] Oh, the other thing I…

[00:55:32] They'll fall over the bass so much.

[00:55:34] They'll fall over.

[00:55:36] Eventually their toes will strum the strings.

[00:55:38] Yeah.

[00:55:39] I don't know.

[00:55:40] I'm not sure.

[00:55:41] I just want them to be able to play a bit of music if they want to.

[00:55:47] So that's my…

[00:55:48] I suppose because it's done so much for you, right?

[00:55:50] Well, that's right for me.

[00:55:51] It's like the music has basically got us this house.

[00:55:53] Yeah.

[00:55:53] So I'm like, we got it.

[00:55:54] You got it.

[00:55:55] You should…

[00:55:56] For me, music is like doing a law degree or something.

[00:55:59] I'm like, come on, guys.

[00:56:00] Seriously.

[00:56:01] Just learn music, man.

[00:56:02] You can get a house.

[00:56:05] Yeah.

[00:56:06] Yeah.

[00:56:07] Yeah.

[00:56:07] So that's funny.

[00:56:08] But you must as well like to the lessons you learn from obviously from having a creative

[00:56:14] pursuit like that.

[00:56:15] I do believe that it opens your mind in other ways.

[00:56:19] Like it makes life richer by having a creative pursuit.

[00:56:23] Yeah.

[00:56:23] I do sometimes worry their idea of what work is because in our house, it's quite bizarre.

[00:56:31] I have the same.

[00:56:32] Right?

[00:56:32] They're like, when they were little, they're like, what does our dad do?

[00:56:35] And they're like, he works with Miss Piggy.

[00:56:38] That was their idea for what my job was.

[00:56:40] It's still pretty weird what I do, like go down to that room above the garage and just

[00:56:44] write songs about things.

[00:56:46] That's pretty vague.

[00:56:50] Dad's a drug dealer, to be honest.

[00:56:54] But yeah.

[00:56:56] But the creativity thing, it's Hannah and I have talked about how we do think it's going

[00:57:04] to be a valuable, not skill, but element to people's lives.

[00:57:10] And everyone's got it.

[00:57:11] You know, I've, everyone's creative.

[00:57:13] I went to, I've helped with the kids at the school.

[00:57:16] They're writing a school play for their school production.

[00:57:18] I've done this a couple of times and you go in and you do, I do like a writing session

[00:57:21] where write the play with the kids.

[00:57:23] It's not that different to working with adults.

[00:57:25] They like, they come up with these ideas and there is, they're like as good as any

[00:57:30] adult's ideas.

[00:57:31] They're just maybe slightly unrealistic.

[00:57:34] They're like, I don't think we're going to be able to have a Lord of the Rings battle

[00:57:36] sequence in the school show.

[00:57:38] They're like, oh, why not?

[00:57:40] I thought there was no bad idea with a brainstorm.

[00:57:41] What are you doing?

[00:57:42] Well, this needs a battle.

[00:57:44] The show needs a battle.

[00:57:49] But so I think all kids, yeah, have got that, that creativity in them.

[00:57:54] So it's, it's, it is nice being able to have a house where that is.

[00:57:59] Part of the fabric, yeah.

[00:58:00] Part of the fabric.

[00:58:01] Yeah.

[00:58:01] One, one game we, we do that I quite like was we, sometimes we make up stories.

[00:58:09] So if we were walking to school, occasionally we'd manage to get up, ourselves together

[00:58:13] to leave early enough to walk to school.

[00:58:15] Usually it's more like a last minute rush, you know, but sometimes in those good days

[00:58:20] when everyone put their shoes on and lined up, you make up stories on the way to school

[00:58:24] where the kids would choose an animal and then we'd make up detective stories where

[00:58:27] they have to solve a crime.

[00:58:29] The, and the, the, the animals were like crime fighting animals and there was some

[00:58:33] jewels had been robbed and just, you're just riffing stories.

[00:58:37] And they, I would lead the story, right?

[00:58:41] You know, the crown jewels have gone missing.

[00:58:42] They've got a call.

[00:58:43] They call, they call, you know, the, the, the detective rat, you know, he's, he's flying

[00:58:48] over to solve the problem with his friend, you know, inspector, uh, uh, inspector pig or

[00:58:53] whatever.

[00:58:54] And whoever, the kids choose whatever animal they want to be.

[00:58:56] And that's their, and they, and they say their quality, you know, their special talent

[00:59:00] or whatever.

[00:59:00] Oh yeah, great.

[00:59:00] And so, and then you solve the crime with them and they, honestly, you can step through

[00:59:05] a story and they add like, they're like, what about this?

[00:59:08] Cause they're thinking of brilliant ideas and you see them.

[00:59:12] I mean, all the, all my kids, but also the kids at their school, you see this, they've

[00:59:17] all got great ideas.

[00:59:19] It's really cool.

[00:59:20] That's so cool.

[00:59:20] That is so cool.

[00:59:22] One curious thing happened during COVID because we were at home a lot, obviously.

[00:59:26] And I thought we'll start a family band.

[00:59:30] That would be a good project.

[00:59:33] I can exactly see how that would come about.

[00:59:35] We've got these instruments.

[00:59:36] I've got these people.

[00:59:38] And who would be the band manager?

[00:59:40] Yeah.

[00:59:42] Can I hazard a guess?

[00:59:43] Yeah.

[00:59:44] We didn't have a manager.

[00:59:45] That might've been the problem.

[00:59:47] So, so we were like, everyone was into it.

[00:59:49] It's like, great.

[00:59:49] We're going to have a practice each day.

[00:59:51] You know, we were sort of trying to build routine into the days, you know, go for a walk

[00:59:55] to the park and, and so we started and we like chose a song.

[00:59:59] We were going to play another one bites the dust.

[01:00:01] Right.

[01:00:01] Awesome.

[01:00:02] And we had some drums.

[01:00:04] We had a bass, guitar, vocals.

[01:00:07] And I think I was on guitar.

[01:00:11] Hannah wanted to play drums.

[01:00:13] Leo was on bass.

[01:00:14] Eden wanted to play electric guitar lead.

[01:00:17] It was very showmany.

[01:00:18] Awesome.

[01:00:19] Bold move.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:20] And then, so, anyway.

[01:00:23] But it's, I mean, to be honest, it's a sort of a bass.

[01:00:26] Yeah.

[01:00:26] It's a bass.

[01:00:27] It's a bass.

[01:00:27] It's a great bass song.

[01:00:28] You're sort of a bass.

[01:00:29] Oh, yeah.

[01:00:29] I think Vito was on keys.

[01:00:30] Yeah.

[01:00:30] Vito was on keys.

[01:00:31] Okay.

[01:00:31] And at this point, Eden is, he's what?

[01:00:34] So this is, he's six at this point.

[01:00:36] Yeah.

[01:00:36] So, but astonishingly, the band, within about 30 minutes or probably day two, the, the,

[01:00:46] the conflict started to rise and by day three, the band had broken up.

[01:00:52] There were arguments about who's playing drums, what song we're playing.

[01:00:56] It fell apart.

[01:00:57] The band broke up on day three.

[01:00:59] It was, it was a lot like a real band as well.

[01:01:01] So funny.

[01:01:04] But I, oh my God, there's so much juiciness in it too.

[01:01:07] Cause I know what it would have meant to you.

[01:01:08] Like at the start, you would have been like, this is my dream.

[01:01:11] This could be so magic guys.

[01:01:14] We could go on tour together.

[01:01:16] This could solve a lot of problems.

[01:01:18] By Wednesday.

[01:01:19] Yeah.

[01:01:19] By, yeah.

[01:01:20] By 2pm.

[01:01:21] Oh no, this is over.

[01:01:22] They were getting legal letters going, I retained all IP from the band.

[01:01:26] Oh, yeah.

[01:01:27] Oh, but again, a great, I think it speaks to the point of, you just don't know what are

[01:01:34] going to be the moments and what aren't.

[01:01:35] Because of course.

[01:01:36] There was a lot of joy.

[01:01:37] There was still a lot of joy in those moments.

[01:01:39] But at the start, you would have been like, I would have fallen for the trap, which I do

[01:01:42] all the time of like, this is the perfect ingredients and the perfect plan.

[01:01:47] The ending can be nothing but a huge success.

[01:01:50] I fall for it all the time.

[01:01:51] And it sometimes just doesn't work that way.

[01:01:53] And yet the most joyful stuff just happens purely by accident.

[01:01:57] I think I was aiming.

[01:01:58] I was aiming too high on that one.

[01:02:00] But it's one of those ones where I don't think it's an argument for not aiming either.

[01:02:03] It's more of an argument for you just have to keep trying different things, right?

[01:02:08] Like you, yeah, because I wouldn't listen to that and be like, you know what, never plan

[01:02:11] anything.

[01:02:11] Like, let's not have fun ideas.

[01:02:13] It's kind of a, even though it seems like that's the answer.

[01:02:15] You're like, I think it's an argument for the opposite.

[01:02:17] Where it's like, let's always just have fun ideas and not hold on to any of them too

[01:02:20] tightly because they could fall apart.

[01:02:21] Makes me think I might try and book a reunion practice.

[01:02:27] See how there's been some.

[01:02:29] What an album.

[01:02:31] Reunion practice.

[01:02:34] Yeah.

[01:02:35] Oh, that's too good.

[01:02:36] Any advice you were given along the way that is stuck in your brain?

[01:02:41] Any parenting advice or a mantra or a philosophy that you feel like you incorporated to some

[01:02:49] success?

[01:02:52] No.

[01:02:53] No.

[01:02:56] I've done it all myself.

[01:02:59] The one thing that is inspiring for me is when you see other parents who are into it,

[01:03:05] or into it, and you see them giving the energy and like the ones who want to play the game

[01:03:10] with the kid.

[01:03:11] I love those parents.

[01:03:13] Yeah.

[01:03:13] Because they're really inspiring to me because they, I've got this one friend we go camping

[01:03:18] with sometimes and he's just like, he just loves games, I guess, but he will play the

[01:03:22] running around games.

[01:03:25] And it's so cool when you get a parent who wants to actually like play that stuff.

[01:03:29] That, that I really love seeing that.

[01:03:31] And parents are really engaged because then you, I can connect with them and it doesn't

[01:03:36] look like I'm a maniac.

[01:03:37] Just wanting to, don't you guys want to play a game with the kids?

[01:03:40] They're like, they're not just have a beer action.

[01:03:42] Enough of the sausages.

[01:03:43] We can go play games.

[01:03:44] But I mean, I feel the same way and I wonder if it comes because it sounds like we had kind

[01:03:48] of a, maybe a bit of a similar experience father wise.

[01:03:52] So the thing that's super appealing to us is seeing other guys be interested.

[01:03:57] Yeah.

[01:03:58] Like opt in and like with all the available choices to go, I choose you.

[01:04:04] Like I guess maybe.

[01:04:05] That is something I definitely respect in a person.

[01:04:09] Yeah.

[01:04:09] Yeah.

[01:04:10] Yeah.

[01:04:10] I think I'm the same.

[01:04:11] I mean, hence doing.

[01:04:12] Hence doing a podcast.

[01:04:13] Hence doing a podcast about it.

[01:04:14] But I think I'm the same because you're like, again, we come back to going, what's important

[01:04:17] to you is important to me.

[01:04:18] I think it's sort of the most, the best message I hope to give to my kids because that's kind

[01:04:25] of, I think, the best way to express love to them, to go through my actions.

[01:04:31] If you could stack them all together, I'd love you to look back and go, if it was important

[01:04:35] to us, dad made it important to him and could be bothered getting into our world.

[01:04:40] And I suppose that's what we feel when you see the parents and the dads wanting to run

[01:04:45] around and play.

[01:04:46] Implicitly they're saying, this game is important to you guys, so I'll show you it's important

[01:04:50] to me.

[01:04:51] Yeah.

[01:04:51] Like I won't show you that something else takes priority.

[01:04:54] They'll look back and go, yeah, he drove us around.

[01:04:57] He drove us around.

[01:04:58] God, that guy could drive.

[01:04:59] And from what I understand.

[01:05:00] He loved us a lot.

[01:05:01] From what I understand, when he was driven around, he was blindfolded.

[01:05:03] So he let us look.

[01:05:06] He let us look out the window.

[01:05:07] Oh, man.

[01:05:08] Yeah.

[01:05:09] The best.

[01:05:10] And even, actually, even listening to your podcast was interesting just thinking about

[01:05:16] what this, you know, about what I would, what we'd talk about.

[01:05:20] And it was actually very refreshing to think about being a dad, to actively reflect on it

[01:05:26] because it's not something that once you're in the woods, you know, maybe early on, you're

[01:05:31] like, oh, I don't know, what sort of dad am I going to be?

[01:05:33] You know, because you just, it's all new.

[01:05:34] But once you've been doing it for, it's, you know, 15 years, you're definitely, there's

[01:05:40] not a lot of moments of, oh, what sort of dad am I?

[01:05:44] What sort of, how would I like to improve myself?

[01:05:45] Oh, for me, you know, you're like.

[01:05:46] Yeah, mate.

[01:05:47] That's a, that's a, feels like it would be a good thing to incorporate into life.

[01:05:51] But the podcast does that because it makes you think about being a dad.

[01:05:54] It's cool.

[01:05:54] We feel the same way too.

[01:05:55] And that's, that's our payoff for, for doing this is because forces is the wrong word, but

[01:06:01] it creates a structure where we get to sit down and often talking to friends, having

[01:06:07] a conversation we would never like really have, you know, like we're all going to go out for

[01:06:11] dinner later tonight after this, but we wouldn't have spent an hour talking about what moves

[01:06:17] out being a dad and where we could improve.

[01:06:19] So in a way I can't even like, sounds like a weird thing to say, but I'm so grateful

[01:06:24] to this podcast that it has allowed me to have these conversations with these guys that

[01:06:28] I really love and admire and to find out that we feel so many of the same things.

[01:06:34] And we're all, maybe as you get older, that voice is that you, you, like you said, it

[01:06:39] gets quieter.

[01:06:39] You don't question what makes you tick as a dad anymore.

[01:06:42] And it becomes just automatic or a part of who you are.

[01:06:45] But when you dig it up, you realize, I think about this all the time, actually.

[01:06:49] Like this is so important.

[01:06:51] This is the most important thing in the world to me.

[01:06:53] It's so important.

[01:06:54] It's funny, even this morning when I was, my, my youngest was, did not want to go to

[01:06:59] school, right?

[01:07:00] Because the other two were sick.

[01:07:01] He was like, well, I want a day off.

[01:07:02] This is like, I'm not going to school.

[01:07:04] This is ridiculous.

[01:07:05] They're just going to watch TV.

[01:07:07] You know, I managed to get him to go to school.

[01:07:08] It took a lot of effort, a lot of tickling based, tickling based threats.

[01:07:18] Sort of the kid's version of a taser.

[01:07:21] Yeah.

[01:07:21] And then he's developed a skill at tasering me back with a tickle that's pretty solid.

[01:07:25] But I did think, I was like, it was, it was just interesting having thought about being

[01:07:32] a dad, you know, thinking, you know, for the podcast, I was like, I was a much better dad

[01:07:39] this morning because of it.

[01:07:42] So true.

[01:07:42] Do you know what I mean?

[01:07:43] I really was.

[01:07:44] Tim and I know exactly what you mean.

[01:07:46] I mean, three days ago, I would be like, get in the car.

[01:07:50] Oh, grumpy, shorts around his knees, dude, would have been like, I would have cracked.

[01:07:56] But then I was like, oh no, no, no, no, because I'm trying to be a dad that's really caring.

[01:08:00] I might get audited.

[01:08:04] That was cool.

[01:08:05] It was cool.

[01:08:07] What a beautiful thing to say, man.

[01:08:08] I mean, it could be no higher, no higher comment we could get for the show.

[01:08:12] And we feel the same way.

[01:08:13] Like we, we're so aware of like, so often Tim and I will talk to each other the day after

[01:08:18] record and be like, I did it.

[01:08:20] I did it last night.

[01:08:21] That thing was like a bad thing.

[01:08:23] It's really good.

[01:08:24] It worked really well.

[01:08:26] Like anything, I suppose, in life, like, you know, like piano practice, the more you get

[01:08:30] back to it after a while.

[01:08:32] Yeah.

[01:08:33] I'm sure what we, the whole point of this is we're all trying to be just a tiny little

[01:08:37] bit better and then we can start having more, you know, more fun with it.

[01:08:41] Yeah.

[01:08:42] So good.

[01:08:42] Brett, there is zero doubt that you are one of the great, attentive, fun, beautiful, generous,

[01:08:50] giving dads.

[01:08:51] Thank you for everything you've given us today, man.

[01:08:52] It's so fun.

[01:08:53] Thanks for chatting.

[01:08:54] That was, that was really fun.

[01:08:55] That was awesome.

[01:08:56] Thanks, man.

[01:08:57] Cheers.

[01:08:58] Hamish is glad that he talked to another dad.

[01:09:01] Now he's gonna say some other stuff, but he will be by himself.

[01:09:06] I think I speak for all of us when I just say, thank you, Brett.

[01:09:09] So good, man.

[01:09:10] So much fun.

[01:09:12] It was actually so much fun.

[01:09:13] We forgot to get a photo, but so great.

[01:09:16] I think what I love most about, about that episode was a, Brett's very, very funny, but

[01:09:22] I think at the heart of it, there is that total, like, as we often say on this show, it's

[01:09:27] the people that walk the walk, you know, that, that clear driving force.

[01:09:32] That's obviously so important to him to go above all else.

[01:09:36] I will be present.

[01:09:37] And I know a lot of people face that in their own way and their own challenges, but I think

[01:09:43] it's a, for me, you know, and, and obviously listening to that, of course, you can imagine

[01:09:47] how seductive being, staying in Hollywood as someone that's in the entertainment industry,

[01:09:52] staying in Hollywood and being an Oscar winner would be very seductive.

[01:09:55] And I think that's just like a little glimpse into clearly how, how much Brett wants to

[01:10:01] put presence and care and joy and fun into his dadding.

[01:10:07] And, and you can, you can hear it.

[01:10:09] I loved that chat.

[01:10:10] I loved listening back to it.

[01:10:11] Even though we actually wasn't that, that long ago, that was only a couple of weeks

[01:10:15] ago, Brett and I have been texting in between going, yeah, yeah, we've been solving crimes

[01:10:20] and doing security guard at our house.

[01:10:22] It's going great.

[01:10:23] But I love that that ended up being a conversation about, about how we can play with our kids

[01:10:28] and keep things playful.

[01:10:29] And to be honest, now that I think about it, I'm not surprised in the least.

[01:10:33] That's where it ended up.

[01:10:34] I hope you enjoyed it too.

[01:10:35] Please, if you want to get in touch with us anytime, the website is in the show notes, howarethedaddad.com.

[01:10:41] There's a little link there.

[01:10:42] Thank you for everyone's beautiful emails.

[01:10:44] Thanks for your, you know, even just words on the street.

[01:10:47] It means a lot.

[01:10:48] And man, I run into so many people doing such an awesome job of being great dads, great parents.

[01:10:54] It's, it's extremely heartwarming.

[01:10:55] So thank you.

[01:10:56] And we'll see you next time.

[01:11:00] How Are The Dad's Dad

[01:11:03] How Are The Dad's Dad

[01:11:05] How Are The Dad's Dad is produced by myself and my mate Tim Bartley.

[01:11:10] The theme song is thanks to the incredibly talented Tom Carty.

[01:11:15] You can find him drenched throughout the internet.

[01:11:18] We recorded this episode in the beautiful country of Aotearoa, a lands, a people and a culture

[01:11:25] we have so much respect and love for.

[01:11:28] We had the best time.

[01:11:29] We encourage everyone to visit.

[01:11:30] That makes it sound like it's sponsored.

[01:11:31] It's not, but we had a great time.

[01:11:34] If you want to say hi, head to our website, howarethedadsdad.com.

[01:11:38] But most of all, thank you for listening.

[01:11:40] Hamish is a dad who just spoke with a dad

[01:11:43] And it blew his tiny mind about what he learned

[01:11:46] So he'll keep running dads and forcing them to talk to him

[01:11:49] So he can find out of a dad's dad