How Luke Carroll Dads - The “beautiful challenge” of parenting in a blended family and what Play School has taught him about kids

[00:00:00] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad, so he makes this show where he talks to other dads so he can find out how other dads dads, how other dads dads.

[00:00:18] Well today's dad, today's dad guest is TV royalty. Anyone that has spent any time with their kid in front of, or someone else's kid in front of Play School, you will know the name Luke Carroll, one of the brightest, most joyful, engaging presenters on Play School and that's a tough field to stand out in because they are all, all those things.

[00:00:42] And that's why I really wanted to talk to him too, because I was like, you're gonna have far more flying hours engaging with kids, especially little kids than any of us do.

[00:00:53] Beyond that professionally, he's a super accomplished actor. People might remember him from back in the nineties.

[00:00:58] He was on the kids show Lift Off, which I definitely do remember him from.

[00:01:02] Redfern Now was an awesome show that he was on later on that I was a big fan of.

[00:01:06] He's also done a ton of theatre over the years. He's been in great shows like Black Is The New White.

[00:01:13] He's done a lot. He's done a lot in the acting world, but I suppose when you become a Play School presenter, that's when you, you know, you really step up and you're like, all right, I'm gonna provide a service here for the kids of Australia.

[00:01:24] What I love about this chat is on top of that, he's also a super invested dad.

[00:01:30] He's really honest. He talks, talks about what it's like to have a kid really young.

[00:01:34] He was a very young dad and he now has a blended family and he navigated the challenges of that and now has this incredible joy with step kids as well and getting to be a stepdad.

[00:01:47] So I love this chat. He clearly brings everything, that full kind of commitment, that positivity and joy that we love to his parenting.

[00:01:56] But also as much as we love that, we all understand that there's the realities involve, you know, sacrifice, getting it wrong, tenacity.

[00:02:05] And I think he does a beautiful job of being really open and sharing how he navigated that.

[00:02:10] So I really loved this chat. I hope you do too.

[00:02:13] Without further ado, let's find out how Luke Carroll dads.

[00:02:23] Luke Carroll, welcome.

[00:02:25] Thank you. Good to be here.

[00:02:26] Mate, lovely to have you.

[00:02:27] Why don't we, let's start with some dad stats.

[00:02:30] How many kids, ages?

[00:02:33] Give it, give it to us.

[00:02:34] I've got two boys.

[00:02:36] My eldest is Marley.

[00:02:37] He's 23.

[00:02:39] And my little fella Enzo, he's 10.

[00:02:41] And I'm part of a bit of a blended family.

[00:02:44] Beautiful.

[00:02:45] So I've got two stepdaughters, Talia, who was 13 and Tilly, who was 12.

[00:02:49] All right.

[00:02:50] So pretty broad, pretty broad spectrum across the age ranges.

[00:02:54] Yes.

[00:02:54] Even just hearing that, I mean, is it a common thing to go when you're dealing with your 10 year old to go, well, I've experienced this 13 years earlier.

[00:03:05] Like, do you, are you able to take those lessons?

[00:03:08] Like having that kind of a 13 year gap between the two boys and go, I'll have another shot at this and do it slightly differently.

[00:03:13] Or is it more dependent on the kid?

[00:03:16] You take bits and pieces away.

[00:03:18] 13 years is a big gap.

[00:03:20] A lot happens within 13 years.

[00:03:22] And for myself, my personal growth as well.

[00:03:25] I was a young father.

[00:03:25] I was 22 years of age when I had my eldest boy.

[00:03:29] Yeah, of course.

[00:03:30] Yeah.

[00:03:30] So I was basically just a young man myself.

[00:03:34] So it was pretty scary to enter that world of fatherhood.

[00:03:38] But I, I've grown up loving kids all my life.

[00:03:41] Uh, I was thought I was ready to enter fatherhood at such a young age, but I learned so much about myself.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:50] My growth personally, it was an amazing part of my life and I'll never, never forget it.

[00:03:55] I think, I think a lot of guys, it's not uncommon for guys to be like, how do you know you're ready?

[00:04:00] You know what I mean?

[00:04:01] Like when, when, if you were the partner or something who, and they decide that, all right, it's time to have kids.

[00:04:07] I think it's not uncommon for a lot of guys to be like, I don't know if I'm ready yet.

[00:04:11] But jumping in at 23 is, is 22, 23 is pretty, that is a real learn as you go situation.

[00:04:19] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Like looking back, do you, do you have standout moments where you, where you were, you know, like now on the other side of it, where you look back and go, okay, that was a real baptism by fire?

[00:04:28] Yeah, definitely.

[00:04:29] Um, my, his mother, my, Marley's mother was my first real girlfriend.

[00:04:34] So it was like, that was all new for me as well.

[00:04:36] Um, so I was learning that sort of process of relationships.

[00:04:40] Yeah.

[00:04:40] Um, and then in the pressure cooker of a newborn.

[00:04:43] Yeah.

[00:04:43] And we moved out together.

[00:04:45] We were living by ourselves, uh, both working, trying to adapt, being a parent, new parents as well.

[00:04:52] His mom took some time off.

[00:04:53] I kept working, but just coming home until a kid, um, not getting much sleep at the time.

[00:04:59] Uh, I think being so young helped in that regard.

[00:05:01] So sort of bounced back quickly.

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:03] You, instead of doing benders like.

[00:05:05] Yeah, that's right.

[00:05:06] It was that energy we all have in our twenties to bounce back from benders.

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:09] You're bouncing back from nappy benders.

[00:05:12] But do you remember what like.

[00:05:13] Nappy benders are like that.

[00:05:14] What, what got you, what got you through in those?

[00:05:17] Like what was like, looking back, was there something that was sort of like a North star

[00:05:20] that helped pull you through those?

[00:05:22] No doubt very kind of confusing and scary early moments.

[00:05:26] It was a smile coming home from work every day for my little fella.

[00:05:29] Yeah.

[00:05:30] Um, that was for me.

[00:05:31] I took it on.

[00:05:33] I love being a parent.

[00:05:34] Um, and I look forward to coming home every day.

[00:05:37] Had a great support network around me.

[00:05:39] I must admit, uh, both our parents were really helpful in helping us raise our little fella.

[00:05:45] Uh, but coming home to his smile, to his laughs, to his, even to his cries, um, was just, I look forward to each and every day.

[00:05:55] And did you have that sense before he came along?

[00:05:57] Did you sort of, you know, you were so young, but like even maybe teenage years, did you have that sense where you're like, I can't wait to be a dad?

[00:06:06] Or did it kind of come along perhaps a little earlier than you thought?

[00:06:10] It came on a little bit earlier than I thought.

[00:06:12] No, I wouldn't say I'd hoped, but I had planned in my head.

[00:06:15] So my plan and, you know, we always wanted to live in that perfect world and a fairytale world.

[00:06:20] I was going to go away overseas in my twenties, go travel the world, do whatever, come back in my thirties, meet the love of my life, settle down and have kids.

[00:06:30] Um, but that changed.

[00:06:32] I'm like I said, met my first sort of real girlfriend, my first real relationship and, um, my big boy Marley come on pretty much straight away.

[00:06:39] So, uh, wasn't playing the way we had had in our heads, uh, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

[00:06:46] He's just, he was a blessing.

[00:06:47] Uh, always has been a blessing.

[00:06:49] He's a great young man now and, um, he's helped me grow, uh, and be the person that I am.

[00:06:55] He's helped me grow and help me.

[00:06:57] Of course.

[00:06:57] I mean, yeah, you've known him for half your life.

[00:06:59] Exactly right.

[00:07:00] That's crazy, isn't it?

[00:07:01] That's, that is crazy.

[00:07:03] That's not, that's a pretty, you know, that's a unique situation to be in as a father and son.

[00:07:07] Yes.

[00:07:08] I'm, and I look at him, he was 22 last year.

[00:07:10] I said, son, I'm, you know, your age when you were born.

[00:07:14] Man looking at him, your age.

[00:07:16] It's quite freakish.

[00:07:17] It's quite.

[00:07:18] Like if he came home and said, dad, I'm having a kid.

[00:07:20] How would you feel?

[00:07:21] Yeah.

[00:07:22] Great question.

[00:07:26] Great question.

[00:07:26] Um, but I, like I said, I did, I let him know about, you know, my plans as a youngster until he come along.

[00:07:32] And, and I'm glad I'm proud of him.

[00:07:35] He went overseas last year with a bunch of his mates for three months and traveled through Europe.

[00:07:40] Awesome.

[00:07:40] And I was so proud of him.

[00:07:41] Um, and I said, thank you, son, for, you know, going to see the world, you know, like you'll never be a burden on my life.

[00:07:48] Never have been, but you're living the dreams that I had at your age.

[00:07:52] That's funny. Yeah.

[00:07:53] So instead of you standing on the sporting field, like trying to live vicariously through him, you're living vicariously through his gap years.

[00:07:59] Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:08:00] That's the thing that I wanted.

[00:08:01] To have that, that's a really beautiful thing, I think, to have that relationship with your boy.

[00:08:06] Do you talk to him about, and it sounds like you do, like, you know, does it help you connect with him a lot more to go, look, we have this common footing that we were this, I was your age and I understand what it's like.

[00:08:19] Do you think he, he gets that?

[00:08:21] Do you think he understands that?

[00:08:22] He does. He does.

[00:08:23] He's got a good head on his shoulders.

[00:08:25] And I'm like I said earlier, I'm blessed with him.

[00:08:27] He's, he's a great kid.

[00:08:29] Um, we chat, we have a, our relationship's more, it's father and son, but it's all mates as well, you know, cause I'm such a young dad.

[00:08:37] Um, you know, I've grown up with him, um, and we'll always be father and son, but I always like to let him know that he can tell me anything that he may not be able to tell his mother or he might be able to tell his mates.

[00:08:50] Um, he's made as well, as well as his father.

[00:08:52] And he's that feel comfortable around me.

[00:08:54] And I think that's like that concept of no matter what you can talk to me.

[00:08:58] That's something I think about a lot with my little boy who's nine.

[00:09:01] Yeah.

[00:09:02] And I, I try to successfully or not, but embed a lot of that almost as the bedrock.

[00:09:09] Yeah.

[00:09:09] That's a really, to me, that's a really critical foundation to sort of just be like, no matter what that idea of like, I love you unconditionally, but also no matter what you can talk to me about things.

[00:09:22] Oh yeah.

[00:09:23] A hundred percent.

[00:09:23] And it remains to be seen how effective I'm being at that because I remember back to my teenage years and I didn't like we, we, I didn't have that relationship with my parents.

[00:09:32] Like straight away, you're like, if something happened, you'd be like, the first thing you think of was like, no way I'm telling mom and dad about this.

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:38] Or if it was more sort of personal insecurities and stuff, you'd be like, oh, no one, I'm, I must be a bit weird for thinking this or no one else will be feeling this way.

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:47] So I try and have that conversation with my little girl all the time just to be like, even if you think I think it's strange or, or if you aren't even sure what you're feeling like, please know that you've got a, an ally, a Sherpa next to you.

[00:10:01] How did you do that with your boy? Like, you know, obviously it seems like you did it pretty successfully now that he's, he's sort of come through those teenage years and he's into adulthood.

[00:10:10] Were, what were the, what were the practices? What did it look like to, to foster that relationship?

[00:10:15] Well, I, there was a moment in time it happened when he was a teenager.

[00:10:19] Um, and you know, not, but it's spoken about it previously, but not into much depth, but, uh, I found out that, uh, he'd lied to me about a certain thing.

[00:10:28] Mm-hmm . And it really broke me. It really made me feel heartbroken that my son can't confide in me, uh, his secrets or, or things that he's doing that I, he needs to shy away from the fact of telling me.

[00:10:41] Yeah. And it really, really affected me. I was really upset about it cause I wanted my son to feel safe around me always and to always confide in me.

[00:10:50] Um, and when I found this out, I was, I was broken really a little bit. And I showed a bit of tough love as well. Cause I was so, uh, broken by it.

[00:11:01] And, uh, I sat him down and I said, son, look, I am your best mate. I'm, um, I'm a young father. I've grown with you. We've grown together.

[00:11:09] Um, you've made me a better person and I want you to feel, um, as safe as being around anybody than you are with me.

[00:11:19] Um, I'm your dad, but I'm also your best mate. I want to be your best mate.

[00:11:23] And I, that's the relationship I want us to have. I never had that, uh, with my, my old man. And I want that with us.

[00:11:31] So, um, we had a pretty tough conversation. He was 16 at the time. So he's gone through a bit of a, I wouldn't say he's not really rebellious, but he was hanging around people that were, and maybe getting into stuff that they were possibly getting into.

[00:11:47] So, um, and he was hiding that fact from me cause he knew I'd be upset about it, but we had a really good, tough conversation, honest conversation.

[00:11:53] We sat down. Um, I think maybe a few tears would have been shed and, um, from that we just grew closer, stronger.

[00:12:01] Um, and now he feels safe. Um, I could safely say he feels safe, um, to confide in me, tell me anything.

[00:12:09] Um, he's, he's my best mate. My both, both my boys are my best mates.

[00:12:12] It's so beautiful.

[00:12:13] Um, I'm getting married, uh, end of the year and they're, we don't have a bridal party.

[00:12:18] I've got my two boys standing next to me. So that's, well, that's emotional.

[00:12:22] That's beautiful.

[00:12:23] But they're more boys, you know, like in every sense of the word, um, uh, I know they've got me, I've got them.

[00:12:29] I love it.

[00:12:29] Yeah.

[00:12:31] I mean, it sounds like you, uh, as you said, making up for something that you didn't have in your past, which I think a lot of us do.

[00:12:38] We sort of go, okay, there's a part of you that's like, I know how I would have loved to have felt, and I'm going to try and recreate that.

[00:12:46] And I would say I fall into a pretty similar category, but it's funny, isn't it?

[00:12:51] Because you, you sometimes don't realize how much is riding on that.

[00:12:54] Like, so when something happens, it really rocks your world.

[00:12:58] Yeah.

[00:12:59] But you have to then not show that too much because you're like, you didn't know, like, it's not the kids, but they're just being a teenager and they don't understand that you're putting a huge amount of meaning on this one moment.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:11] It's a tough one.

[00:13:12] Yeah.

[00:13:13] Really tough one to get through.

[00:13:14] It is.

[00:13:15] Hopefully I, you know, I, uh, and, you know, I, and it was all new for me as well.

[00:13:19] It was a learning process of, geez, my son doesn't trust me.

[00:13:23] I thought I had him, you know, I thought he, you know, he knew that I had his back no matter what.

[00:13:28] And so to find out that happened, um, yeah, it really does break you.

[00:13:31] Um, especially when you're proud of you, you love your kids so much, they, they are everything, you know?

[00:13:36] Um, and for him to, to find out that he didn't sort of trust me in that moment.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] It was tough.

[00:13:41] I would say it's pretty, it's tough, but then I would say almost, you know, everyone probably with a grown kid would be listening to this going, yeah.

[00:13:49] You know?

[00:13:50] Yeah.

[00:13:50] That's part of the journey is getting broken and humbled like that.

[00:13:53] And then having, having to rebuild it.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:55] Like that, I think that's the, what I really love about that is it's to sort of say to him, like, here's what I want to happen.

[00:14:02] Here's what I want our relationship to be.

[00:14:04] But then that you guys are working together to go, how do we bring it to that spot?

[00:14:08] Like, it's, it's not like I'm going to yell at you.

[00:14:11] You can't yell at someone to be mates with you.

[00:14:13] No, not at all.

[00:14:14] No.

[00:14:14] You have to, you have to build a relationship together.

[00:14:17] Yeah.

[00:14:17] And we had to rebuild that again.

[00:14:19] Uh, I wouldn't say the trust was broken, but just, we had to rebuild what we thought we had set in concrete.

[00:14:24] Yeah.

[00:14:25] And the rebuilding of that was that first conversation and it took a while and to gain trust and, uh, to chat again and feel comfortable around each other again.

[00:14:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:35] But it brought us closer, closer together as, as always.

[00:14:39] Unreal.

[00:14:39] Yeah.

[00:14:39] Good for doing it.

[00:14:40] Um, so something we ask everyone that comes to the, comes to the couch.

[00:14:44] What are the three, three cornerstones, three headlines you would give your parenting philosophy?

[00:14:51] Uh, patience.

[00:14:53] Patience.

[00:14:54] I like that.

[00:14:54] Um, you know, there's no manual to being a parent at all.

[00:14:58] It's all a learning process, especially when you're as young as I was when I started out.

[00:15:04] Um, fun.

[00:15:05] I'm a fun dad.

[00:15:07] Uh, and I'm sure my kids and my stepkids can vouch for that.

[00:15:10] It's, I live in the moment.

[00:15:12] Um, you know, we shared custody of our children and we like to think that when they come with us, we're fun.

[00:15:20] You know, they're allowed to do things they're not allowed to do with their other side.

[00:15:24] I love that you're admitting that.

[00:15:26] Yes.

[00:15:27] Usually I try away from that fact.

[00:15:29] You see that swept under the rug.

[00:15:32] No, that's out in the open.

[00:15:33] And, uh, yeah.

[00:15:34] So fun, you know, living in the moment.

[00:15:37] We were sporadic in our actions with our kids.

[00:15:40] Sometimes we will spur of the moment, go away, take them on the way for the weekend.

[00:15:45] Um, so fun, patience.

[00:15:48] And why is, why is living in the moment important to you to, to, to model that for your kids?

[00:15:53] Um, I've had people whose parents pass away suddenly.

[00:15:57] Um, um, and, uh, a few different friends whose parents pass away suddenly.

[00:16:03] So I think, uh, each moment you get with your kids or people that you love, you should just live in the moment.

[00:16:11] Um, unconditionally, unapologetically.

[00:16:14] And just live in the moment.

[00:16:16] Um, cause you just don't know when your time's up.

[00:16:18] Quality time is a big thing.

[00:16:19] That's another word.

[00:16:20] Quality time.

[00:16:21] Um, just to live in the moment and don't apologize for it.

[00:16:26] I'm not going to make you.

[00:16:27] No.

[00:16:28] I couldn't agree more.

[00:16:30] So fun, patience and quality time.

[00:16:33] Quality of it.

[00:16:34] Yeah.

[00:16:34] So talk to me about the, like what makes something quality time?

[00:16:39] Um, what you make of it.

[00:16:41] So, um, for me it's getting out there and living life.

[00:16:44] You know, if it's a sunny day as it is today, going down to the beach, swimming in the waves, free fun is always a good thing.

[00:16:53] Totally.

[00:16:54] But it's the best fun.

[00:16:56] It is.

[00:16:56] It is.

[00:16:56] It is the best fun.

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:16:59] Just living in the moment.

[00:17:00] If it's a rainy day, go watch a quality movie with the kids or whatever it is, just see what your surroundings are giving you at the time and just go with them.

[00:17:09] Um, always think positively, always in a positive sense as well.

[00:17:13] I know it's hard at some times, you know, parenthood can be, can be tough at times.

[00:17:16] Yep.

[00:17:17] Um, but if I always think in a positive way, then, uh, the tough times don't really last.

[00:17:23] So let's say you wake up Sunday morning, it's rainy.

[00:17:27] What's a, what's a positive thought that pops into your head?

[00:17:29] Positive thought.

[00:17:30] All right.

[00:17:30] What can we do?

[00:17:31] Maybe running outside.

[00:17:33] What can we use that to our advantage?

[00:17:35] Can we go and run in the rain?

[00:17:36] Take the dog for a run in the, in the, down a park in the rain, have fun, live in the moment like that.

[00:17:42] I agree.

[00:17:43] If there's a good, good movie on, go watch a movie and yet you can have chocolate, you can have popcorn, you can have your ice cream.

[00:17:49] Because remember you're at the fun house.

[00:17:51] That's right.

[00:17:53] I like that.

[00:17:54] I might put that, but the sign at the front door.

[00:17:55] Welcome to the fun house.

[00:17:56] Welcome to the fun house.

[00:17:58] See you in a week, guys.

[00:18:01] I remember reading somewhere that we create memories when we're doing something out of the, we're in a different environment or, you know, when something breaks out of the norm.

[00:18:09] Like a really simple example, like, which might've even talked about in the show before, but the reason you can't remember every single day at school is because it was pretty similar.

[00:18:18] Yes.

[00:18:18] Like you don't remember, you don't remember that all the 200 different days of year nine because there was a lot of similarity, but you do remember year nine camp because, you know, that was the time you broke out of the pattern.

[00:18:30] And so I think, I think that resonates with me, that idea of like, do something, just do something different and it doesn't have to be complicated.

[00:18:37] It just has to be different.

[00:18:39] And bonus points if you've never done it before because you'll remember it.

[00:18:43] Yes.

[00:18:44] And I think sometimes you just need that little extra 5% of effort just to like, let's just get out the door and see what happens.

[00:18:52] Because that is the, I think with the right mindset, something will happen.

[00:18:55] And it could be a disaster, but it could also be, like, it could be the thing that becomes talked about in the family for the next.

[00:19:02] Memories forever.

[00:19:03] Next, next 20 years.

[00:19:04] And it's also good to have, you know, I've got a partner who's on the same level as me.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:08] So she's great.

[00:19:09] So she, she's along for the ride as well.

[00:19:11] And as sporadic and crazy as they are sometimes we're, we're in it together.

[00:19:16] So it's, yeah, that helps a lot.

[00:19:18] I love it.

[00:19:19] Play school, being a part of play school, like being a presenter on play school, it's a very, you know,

[00:19:24] I think you're a terrific man for the job, as you said, like, you know, you have that affinity for kids.

[00:19:28] I was thinking about this this morning and I was like, what I love about play school, and it was this for me,

[00:19:32] and I'm sure it's this for millions of other kids.

[00:19:35] It's probably one of our first exposures or experiences to these really kind adults that aren't our family and our parents don't know,

[00:19:44] and they're not our teachers, but they're these examples that adults are kind and interested and fun and caring

[00:19:53] and they're talking to you, you know, down the lens.

[00:19:58] And it's, I didn't realize it when I was a kid, but now that I'm an adult, like, that's a really special thing.

[00:20:03] Like, that's a very sacred kind of relationship you get to have with the kids that are watching

[00:20:08] because you're able to kind of model those qualities to kids.

[00:20:13] Is that something you think about a lot as a play school presenter?

[00:20:16] Yeah, I do.

[00:20:17] Yeah, what a great dream geek.

[00:20:19] I mean, to be able to be on such an iconic TV show is an amazing children's show.

[00:20:23] And what I love about the show is the live shows that we do.

[00:20:27] So we go on the road and do tours and stuff.

[00:20:29] And because you're in the studio, you're chatting through the lens to the kids.

[00:20:33] So you don't see their reaction.

[00:20:34] But on the play school live shows, the reaction of these kids, it just fills your heart with joy.

[00:20:39] I get so much out of it.

[00:20:42] And we all do as presenters to see the kids react the way they do.

[00:20:46] The parents react the way they do.

[00:20:48] It really sort of hits home how important of a job that we're doing for these kids and parents at home,

[00:20:54] in their lounge rooms or wherever they're watching it.

[00:20:57] You're a safe grown-up.

[00:20:58] Yes.

[00:20:58] And when you really think about it, like, there's not that many safe grown-ups in kids' lives.

[00:21:03] There's probably less and less, like, these days.

[00:21:05] Yes.

[00:21:05] Especially if, you know, kids might not have a big extended family or whatever.

[00:21:09] And it's a wonderful position to be able to have in, like, a little person's life to be that person.

[00:21:15] I remember Benita growing up, you know.

[00:21:17] Me too.

[00:21:18] I think we're the same age.

[00:21:19] Yeah, same era.

[00:21:20] Yes.

[00:21:21] And you will never forget Benita and the warmth you emanate through that screen.

[00:21:26] You know, and John, like, it was just, you never forget them.

[00:21:28] Yeah.

[00:21:28] Never forget them.

[00:21:29] And those memories of watching them.

[00:21:31] I remember we had a magic carpet in preschool when we used to watch it.

[00:21:36] I still remember that, you know.

[00:21:38] So.

[00:21:39] So what have you learned about kids from being involved in play school?

[00:21:42] What has it taught you?

[00:21:44] I mean, you have exposure to many kids in your own life, but now you've got lots more with play school.

[00:21:49] Has it taught you something about kids?

[00:21:52] Simple joys.

[00:21:53] Kids love simple joys.

[00:21:54] Simple stuff.

[00:21:55] Especially at that age group, the younger toddlers.

[00:21:57] You know, simple.

[00:21:58] You know, in play school we sing simple songs.

[00:22:00] You know, there's nothing to.

[00:22:02] We're not the wiggles.

[00:22:03] We're not big and bright.

[00:22:05] No, it's not.

[00:22:05] It's just a simple formula that's lasted decades.

[00:22:08] It's calming, yes.

[00:22:09] I'll tell you a quick story.

[00:22:10] When I auditioned for play school, I was terrified.

[00:22:14] I put down a self-tape and I got a call back.

[00:22:17] So we had to go into the ABC in Sydney here and I had to do a special little performance with Tao, who's one of the presenters on there.

[00:22:26] One of the best presenters, Tao.

[00:22:28] He's a great guy.

[00:22:30] And we had a table.

[00:22:31] It was like Australian Idol.

[00:22:33] You know, we had the producers all lined up on the table.

[00:22:36] And I've never seen that before in an audition room.

[00:22:38] My God.

[00:22:38] I had no idea it was this intense for play school.

[00:22:40] Yeah, yeah, it was.

[00:22:41] It is.

[00:22:42] Our audition process.

[00:22:44] Anyway, I got through it.

[00:22:45] I started doing the audition.

[00:22:47] They said cut after about five seconds.

[00:22:49] They said, look, Luke, just relax a bit.

[00:22:52] This is not the Wiggles.

[00:22:53] It's play school.

[00:22:54] Pull it back a bit.

[00:22:55] Just throttle it down.

[00:22:56] Yeah.

[00:22:57] Turn the volume down a little bit.

[00:22:59] I think I was being too animated, which is great for the Wiggles.

[00:23:03] Play school, a bit of a different formula.

[00:23:05] So I've learned to also be calm in terms of the way I portray myself, especially on play school, because the formula hasn't changed over the years.

[00:23:14] It's still the same formula.

[00:23:16] It's true.

[00:23:16] Calmness is a really big component of play school.

[00:23:20] Yes.

[00:23:21] Really big.

[00:23:21] There's no – like you think about the most high-energy moment on play school, it ain't that big.

[00:23:27] It is – you know, it's someone – you might get a – Humpty might play peekaboo or something.

[00:23:33] That's right.

[00:23:33] It's kind of like – there's no like confetti cannons or jump scares or anything.

[00:23:37] That's definitely not –

[00:23:38] Is that one of the guiding principles of it?

[00:23:41] It is.

[00:23:41] Mostly.

[00:23:42] Definitely.

[00:23:43] It was – it's something I learned very early on in the audition process.

[00:23:46] Yeah, of course.

[00:23:46] And that's – you know, you've got to maintain that.

[00:23:50] I mean, the first day I walked on set, I was just overtaken with fear, excitement, and I didn't know how to approach it.

[00:23:57] But luckily enough, I had a co-presenter.

[00:23:59] Tao was my first presenter I did my episode with.

[00:24:02] Everybody behind the scenes, they've been doing it for years, so they know the process of it all.

[00:24:06] So they'll really calm – it had a calming effect on me.

[00:24:09] And I slotted it straight in.

[00:24:11] Did that help you with your parenting at all?

[00:24:14] It certainly did.

[00:24:15] It did.

[00:24:16] It really did.

[00:24:17] A lot of stuff I've done on Play School has helped me as a parent.

[00:24:22] I can imagine.

[00:24:22] We have an early childhood educator as well in our rehearsal room just to make sure that things are done correctly

[00:24:28] and there aren't going to be too many complaints, as there sometimes is.

[00:24:34] But I've learnt chatting with them as well about some of the issues I might have at home, and they help with that.

[00:24:40] So, yeah, Play School has been a great sort of encyclopedia for –

[00:24:45] It is.

[00:24:45] I can imagine you would take stuff and be able to, you know, do it at home.

[00:24:48] Yeah.

[00:24:48] It's been great.

[00:24:50] And then, yeah, my kids get old enough for nieces and nephews and friends who have kids.

[00:24:54] And, yeah, I'm able to sort of test things on them as well.

[00:24:57] It's been great.

[00:24:59] It's funny you mentioned the childhood educator because I actually did a Father's Day episode last year at Play School

[00:25:04] where I think Humpty makes a cake for his dad and I had to help him make the cake

[00:25:09] and that's what we were doing for Father's Day.

[00:25:10] You enjoyed it?

[00:25:11] Loved it.

[00:25:12] Yeah.

[00:25:12] Really good fun.

[00:25:13] But there was a few jokes, and I was making a few jokes in there about Humpty, like, cracking an egg

[00:25:18] to go in the cake and about – it just raised a couple of, like, logic issues because Humpty's an egg

[00:25:24] and he's like –

[00:25:24] Yeah, right.

[00:25:28] Humpty would have been a bit worried.

[00:25:29] Yeah.

[00:25:30] I think we got into a just – I thought it was funny, but we got into a strange area that then had to –

[00:25:34] we just didn't put eggs in the cake in the end.

[00:25:39] I think they were possibly worried about a few complaints, like just making a few cannibalism jokes and stuff.

[00:25:45] Yeah, yeah, right.

[00:25:46] I mean, I didn't say the word, but, I mean, that was –

[00:25:48] That's where I realised that we do have eyes on the show.

[00:25:52] Yeah, lots of them.

[00:25:53] Yeah.

[00:25:55] Going back to, like, being a young dad, that's – you know, you talk about, like,

[00:25:59] the kind of the scariness of suddenly being a dad.

[00:26:01] Have there been times where the kids are much older, much later in your life?

[00:26:04] What else – any other scary times for you that have popped up along the journey?

[00:26:09] Well, my son going through teenage years into high school, influences of the other kids that are around him,

[00:26:16] and I touched on it earlier.

[00:26:18] So that was tough for me.

[00:26:22] Does it take you back to when you were at high school?

[00:26:24] Like, is that what it does?

[00:26:26] Yes, it did.

[00:26:27] I had a lot of crazy influences around me.

[00:26:30] Luckily, I had a great mother, single parent, who just was – kept me on the straight and narrow.

[00:26:37] I also had my acting career as well.

[00:26:39] It wasn't sort of – I was distracted with that as well, which helped through my journey through those formative years.

[00:26:47] But I always worry about your own kids.

[00:26:50] And now I'm worried about my two stepdaughters, you know, and the world we live in, the pressures of especially young girls.

[00:26:58] It's a pretty scary world we live in out there, social media and stuff.

[00:27:02] That's true, actually.

[00:27:03] I don't think that fear is going anywhere, is it?

[00:27:05] No.

[00:27:06] It's not like you're going to have a scary moment and then you're like, you're out of it.

[00:27:09] Like, I've got a six-year-old daughter and I think that fear is just here to stay.

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:14] That the world is incentivised to mess –

[00:27:18] Yeah.

[00:27:18] Like, with our kids' heads and –

[00:27:20] And it's evolved though.

[00:27:21] It scares me a little bit for my boys.

[00:27:24] But now I've got two stepdaughters.

[00:27:26] And that's been a whole new process of me learning as a parent how I deal with the female influence.

[00:27:32] It's just been me and my boys, you know?

[00:27:34] Yeah.

[00:27:34] Yeah.

[00:27:35] The male-dominated sort of household as a single father as I was before.

[00:27:40] But now I've got two beautiful stepdaughters.

[00:27:43] How that energy is coming to our world, our blended lives.

[00:27:47] How long have you been in your relationship for?

[00:27:49] Like, how long have you had stepdaughters for?

[00:27:50] Three years.

[00:27:50] Three years.

[00:27:51] So it's – I would guess here, you know, mates that have blended families too, that it's the no run-up too.

[00:27:59] It's sort of like suddenly you have a 10-year-old.

[00:28:02] You didn't get to build a bond from when they were zero.

[00:28:06] It's just you're straight in.

[00:28:07] Straight in.

[00:28:08] How's that been?

[00:28:09] Deep in.

[00:28:10] It's been a challenge.

[00:28:11] Yeah.

[00:28:12] A beautiful challenge.

[00:28:13] But, you know, obviously I'm not the girl's dad.

[00:28:16] So there's been a challenge of mum's got a new boyfriend and now a fiancé into, you know, getting married in a couple of months.

[00:28:23] So it was a challenge.

[00:28:25] But I love a challenge.

[00:28:26] I love kids.

[00:28:27] And I knew I'll –

[00:28:28] You'd get them?

[00:28:29] I'll win – yeah, I'll win them over and I have, you know.

[00:28:32] I have.

[00:28:32] And I try to be – I'll never try to be their father.

[00:28:36] Their father will always be their father.

[00:28:38] But I try to be – that word again, fun.

[00:28:41] Yeah.

[00:28:41] I bring a lot of fun into the household.

[00:28:44] I'm there for them.

[00:28:45] I listen to them.

[00:28:45] I – for instance, they did a public speaking task just a couple of weeks ago and I helped with that because I've done a bit of public speaking and she got high marks for that.

[00:28:56] So that helped break down any barriers that were remaining.

[00:29:00] That's great.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:00] So you find – I mean, it's that challenge of finding little connection points.

[00:29:04] Yeah.

[00:29:04] Yeah, that's right.

[00:29:05] I sit back.

[00:29:05] I know what they like.

[00:29:06] I know – and, you know, if there's any confidence lacking, I'm pretty good at picking that up and helping move through that as well.

[00:29:14] I help them – assisting my partner as well, Kelly, with that.

[00:29:17] But I – yeah, that energy, that female energy I'd never had before.

[00:29:21] It was a learning process for me, how to deal with that different energy and coming into a world where it was both foreign to everybody.

[00:29:31] You know, my boys especially as well, you know, and to blend together.

[00:29:37] But I'm likely –

[00:29:37] And that's true.

[00:29:38] You're managing – you're not just managing your relationship with the girls but your boys' relationship with their new stepsisters.

[00:29:43] And stepmother.

[00:29:44] And stepmother.

[00:29:45] So there's a –

[00:29:45] Massive.

[00:29:46] I can't draw the diagram but there's like 20 lines going here between all these different parties.

[00:29:51] So there was a whole new challenge of being a blended family parent, I suppose, and navigating that whole new life which was just – like I said, that female presence was foreign to me.

[00:30:04] I've got two boys.

[00:30:05] They don't have any sisters.

[00:30:06] So, yeah, it was all –

[00:30:08] I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening to this that are in a similar situation or could find themselves there.

[00:30:14] I have no experience with this.

[00:30:15] So I'm just kind of like, you know, just imagining what it would be like to go into that world.

[00:30:21] But the other thing that you think about is like, okay, well, you need to have a relationship with their dad too.

[00:30:25] Yes.

[00:30:26] A bit because you are – you know, you're going to be in their space.

[00:30:29] I understand.

[00:30:30] And is that obviously at the point where you're like, I've never met this guy and then I do have to meet him and I want him to feel comfortable with the fact that I'm going to be in his girl's space?

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:39] And, you know, half the time just as much as him because there is shared custody.

[00:30:43] So you've got to tread carefully as well but it's a slow process.

[00:30:48] It's still – we're working that out even after three years.

[00:30:51] But it's – we need to know that the kid's best interest at heart.

[00:30:56] That's what it comes down to.

[00:30:57] These things happen.

[00:30:58] It's not uncommon for, you know, breakups these days and for families to reform in some different form as a bledded family.

[00:31:07] So that's been tough as well.

[00:31:09] It's all a process.

[00:31:10] It's all a process.

[00:31:11] It's all a process.

[00:31:12] And I suppose the whole north start or this, the whole guiding light is the juice is worth the squeeze.

[00:31:17] Like relationships come together.

[00:31:19] They come apart.

[00:31:20] Yes.

[00:31:21] And, you know, people do it because there's the belief that this is a better way forward.

[00:31:26] We're creating ultimately through this roughness, we're going to create a much better world for our – an environment for our kids.

[00:31:32] Yeah.

[00:31:32] And that's what we want.

[00:31:33] You know, we just want to be happy, you know, be able to love again as a person, as a parent and to live as happily as we can, you know, with what we have in front of us.

[00:31:44] So I love a challenge.

[00:31:46] You know, it certainly doesn't allow for any boredom to set in.

[00:31:51] It doesn't sound boring.

[00:31:52] It doesn't sound boring.

[00:31:54] But that's interesting.

[00:31:55] So when something comes up, like let's say, you know, being a young father or, you know, going through a breakup, bringing two families together, or, you know, even when times just get generally tough, I think I find it interesting.

[00:32:06] I reckon there's a real key to some of your success and your tenacity and the fact that you see it as a challenge, not as something to just go, all right, this is too hard.

[00:32:16] Do you know what I mean?

[00:32:17] Like it seems like you see the positive side of the challenge.

[00:32:21] Always, always.

[00:32:22] Do you think that's important in any relationship?

[00:32:25] I think so.

[00:32:25] Most definitely.

[00:32:27] I'm a giving person and I think my kids and my stepkids and my partner will vouch for that.

[00:32:32] I will have nothing, so they have everything, you know.

[00:32:36] And I love to see kids happy.

[00:32:37] I love to see my partner happy.

[00:32:40] I mean, everyone around me.

[00:32:41] Coming into that blended family at the start was a challenge that I knew had so much potential once it was broken down and I love it.

[00:32:50] So to you, you're like, this is a challenge, but the upside here is I got a hunch that everyone could be twice as happy.

[00:32:56] Yes.

[00:32:56] After we get through this.

[00:32:58] A hundred percent.

[00:32:59] Yep.

[00:32:59] And it's happened.

[00:33:00] We are a beautiful blended family.

[00:33:03] My older boy does his own thing.

[00:33:05] He's 23, you know, he's out clubbing with his mates or whatever.

[00:33:09] My little fella's at home with us all the time and he's just – there was a time when we first started seeing my partner Kelly and I'd pick him up from school.

[00:33:18] The first thing he would say was, Dad, when are we going to see Kelly and the girls?

[00:33:22] Before he said hello to me, it was for the first two months where that was all come out of his mouth.

[00:33:27] Each time I'd pick him up from school and I thought, this is special.

[00:33:31] My son hasn't met anybody else before.

[00:33:35] So Kelly's my first partner that he's met.

[00:33:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:37] And that was a big thing for me.

[00:33:38] I don't just – I wouldn't just introduce him after a couple of months.

[00:33:42] I had this rule where I – six months' time.

[00:33:44] Right.

[00:33:45] With Kelly, my partner, I broke that because she's just so good.

[00:33:48] She was the one.

[00:33:48] She's the one.

[00:33:49] I knew after our first walk together she was the one.

[00:33:53] Crazy as that sounds.

[00:33:55] But I just knew she was the one.

[00:33:56] It was crazy.

[00:33:58] And so he just loves them.

[00:34:01] Loves them.

[00:34:01] They love him.

[00:34:02] The girls love him.

[00:34:03] And each – they have their own sort of little special things.

[00:34:06] So Talia and Enzo had the same sense of humour.

[00:34:09] So they've got this cheeky little sense of humour.

[00:34:11] So one part of the day they'll be hanging out together just one-on-one.

[00:34:15] Tilly, she's a bit more arty.

[00:34:17] She'll be doing her own arts and crafts.

[00:34:19] But then I come together again in a lounge room.

[00:34:21] Then you'll find Tilly and Enzo out in the laneway playing handball together.

[00:34:26] And to have their moments together and as one separately.

[00:34:29] So it's beautiful to watch.

[00:34:32] I love it.

[00:34:33] And you suddenly now have – I mean, for someone that loves having kids around,

[00:34:37] now you've got twice as many.

[00:34:39] And daughters, stepdaughters.

[00:34:41] You know, I've always wanted daughters.

[00:34:43] Didn't think – and I was just happy being a single parent.

[00:34:46] Then I found Kelly in my life.

[00:34:48] With Kelly came two beautiful girls.

[00:34:49] And I've got two beautiful stepdaughters who I will fiercely protect like my own

[00:34:53] and love just as much.

[00:34:56] So my life has been enriched.

[00:34:59] And I just count my lucky stars every day.

[00:35:02] I wake up next to my beautiful fiancé in their house.

[00:35:05] And, yeah, I'm a lucky man.

[00:35:07] So good.

[00:35:07] So good.

[00:35:08] You mentioned growing up with a single mum.

[00:35:12] Yep.

[00:35:12] So from obviously a powerful female presence in your life when you were younger.

[00:35:19] Did you take a lot, everything, some things from her into your fathering style?

[00:35:26] I've taken a lot of it.

[00:35:28] A lot of it I thought was cool.

[00:35:31] I thought, yeah, that's great, right?

[00:35:33] But then I step back and I think, okay, well, maybe that doesn't work for –

[00:35:37] in this blended situation.

[00:35:40] What are some of the things you took from your mum?

[00:35:43] What have I taken from mum?

[00:35:44] Jeez, basically everything I've taken to love fiercely.

[00:35:48] Cuddles.

[00:35:49] Touch is a big thing.

[00:35:51] Mum was always big on touch and cuddles.

[00:35:54] I'm always like that with my boys growing up.

[00:35:56] Cuddling was a big thing just to show them love and that they're loved.

[00:36:00] Mum was pretty staunch too.

[00:36:03] She was a tough lover at times and I've got that a bit in me as well.

[00:36:06] I've got to pull back a bit sometimes.

[00:36:09] Like in what ways did you have?

[00:36:11] Well, I need standout memories.

[00:36:13] She was quite fierce as a person.

[00:36:16] She was – in my local community, she was a school teacher,

[00:36:21] an Aboriginal education aide.

[00:36:23] So she would help any Aboriginal kids who had tough times at school.

[00:36:27] So she was fiercely protective of them.

[00:36:29] I grew up in a suburb where there was a lot of –

[00:36:33] it was pretty tough, a tough suburb in Wollamaloo in Sydney.

[00:36:37] And so there was a lot of drugs in the area.

[00:36:41] And I could have walked down two paths.

[00:36:43] I could have gone down that path and ended up in jail.

[00:36:46] I could have walked down a path I did.

[00:36:49] And mum was fiercely protective of me of that.

[00:36:53] Because you started acting at a pretty young age.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:55] Was she very keen on like, you know, supporting that side of your personality?

[00:37:01] She was, yeah.

[00:37:01] So it was my year three teacher who actually got me into acting.

[00:37:06] I was being a bit of a class clown.

[00:37:09] She was a relief teacher.

[00:37:10] And so the first week I was just being a class clown.

[00:37:13] She held me back after class, said,

[00:37:16] I'm calling your mum up for a meeting.

[00:37:18] And I thought I was in trouble because mum was staunch.

[00:37:20] She was so scary.

[00:37:22] But she set up a meeting with an acting agent in North Bondi.

[00:37:25] That's so funny.

[00:37:26] What a teacher.

[00:37:27] Yeah, I know.

[00:37:28] Amazing.

[00:37:28] What a teacher to go from class clown to you've got it, kid.

[00:37:32] I know.

[00:37:32] I know.

[00:37:32] How good is it?

[00:37:33] Look where I am now.

[00:37:34] I've got the last 36 years as an actor.

[00:37:37] So mum was protective of that.

[00:37:39] I did a big TV show called Liftoff on the ABC.

[00:37:43] And it required me to go down to Melbourne for six months.

[00:37:45] And mum thought, yep, sweet.

[00:37:46] How old were you then?

[00:37:47] I was 10.

[00:37:49] All right.

[00:37:49] Wow.

[00:37:49] Did you know your mum?

[00:37:50] No, I went by myself.

[00:37:52] Whoa.

[00:37:52] Yeah.

[00:37:53] So mum, I lived down there for six months.

[00:37:57] They were going to fly me back every fortnight to see my parents and my friends.

[00:38:02] But I got two homesick, so they flew me back every weekend for six months.

[00:38:06] So I'd fly down on the Sunday.

[00:38:07] That's a pretty formative experience.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:10] Oh, yeah.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:12] I grew quickly.

[00:38:13] I had to.

[00:38:14] I was so homesick when I'd leave mum on a Sunday and I'd arrive.

[00:38:19] So I'd live with the girl who played my sister, Aku.

[00:38:22] I'd live with her and her family during the week.

[00:38:24] When I'm on set, I was fine.

[00:38:26] It was such a great production.

[00:38:28] Everyone was amazing.

[00:38:30] But the moment I'd come home and recall mum, I'd be homesick.

[00:38:33] Yeah.

[00:38:33] But looking back, it helped me grow up.

[00:38:35] Which makes total sense because you were a 10-year-old boy.

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:37] Yes.

[00:38:37] But I grew as a person pretty quickly.

[00:38:40] Grew up really quickly.

[00:38:41] Do you think that's part of your mum's tough love?

[00:38:43] Like to be like, I know you'll be fine and you'll be back in six months and I think this

[00:38:48] is a great opportunity for you?

[00:38:49] Yep.

[00:38:50] Definitely.

[00:38:50] Because that would have hurt her too.

[00:38:51] Like it would have been very painful for her.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:55] To have you all day.

[00:38:55] She was, when she found out there was no, because we had a tutor on set, but because

[00:38:59] we were part of the main cast, there wasn't much schoolwork.

[00:39:02] Tutor rank going on.

[00:39:03] No.

[00:39:03] And she wasn't happy when she found out.

[00:39:04] So, but I was fine with that.

[00:39:08] But yeah, I think she was like going to boarding school, I suppose, in a sense.

[00:39:14] Yeah.

[00:39:14] But even funner because you're acting all day.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:18] Yeah.

[00:39:18] Yeah.

[00:39:18] 10 years of age, go and learn this new sort of world you've been gifted an opportunity

[00:39:25] to enter.

[00:39:26] And so I went down and that was my training.

[00:39:28] I'm not formally trained as an actor.

[00:39:30] Never went to NIDA or a WAPA or any of those drama schools after school, after high school.

[00:39:34] I learned as I worked and lift off that whole experience at six months was a big part of

[00:39:40] me learning the craft of acting, finding out who I am at such a young age, which was great.

[00:39:48] Does it then make you for your kids like, yeah, like that's a really powerful experience,

[00:39:53] like great for a kid that's interested in being creative and interested in acting to get that

[00:39:57] opportunity to do like an intensive six months, like on a TV show.

[00:40:01] So it's like a kid that's interested in footy being allowed to play with an NRL team for

[00:40:06] a year.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:07] Like it's awesome.

[00:40:10] Yeah.

[00:40:10] Open up a whole new world.

[00:40:11] Whole new world I never imagined I was capable of being a part of or getting through.

[00:40:17] It was a challenge.

[00:40:18] Are there times when opportunities have come up for your kids that are a little, you know,

[00:40:24] that require a bit of a big family commitment?

[00:40:27] Yeah.

[00:40:27] Yeah, definitely.

[00:40:28] My oldest boy was in sport.

[00:40:30] He did pretty well.

[00:40:31] So he had to go away in camps and stuff.

[00:40:33] And so that was tough on him.

[00:40:36] He didn't even really want to travel.

[00:40:40] But given my experience, I was able to guide him in that way and be there for him.

[00:40:45] My young fellow now, he's got into acting.

[00:40:47] God help us all.

[00:40:52] But he's just got the knack.

[00:40:53] But yeah, he's been given opportunities.

[00:40:56] Nothing like the six months down in Melbourne or anything like that.

[00:41:00] But little opportunities here where he may need a tutor.

[00:41:03] Oh, sorry.

[00:41:03] Not a tutor.

[00:41:04] Someone on set with him to be there for him.

[00:41:07] And so I've got to sort of think about if I'm able to, you know, take time out of my own work to be there for him.

[00:41:16] Yeah.

[00:41:16] Which I'll jump at the chance.

[00:41:18] I mean, you know, it sounds like you just innately are like, if the kids need this, I'll be there for them.

[00:41:24] Because I think it's what we're all looking for.

[00:41:26] We're all like, we can enroll them in things and I don't know, you know, register them for sports or do art club or whatever.

[00:41:33] But what we're all waiting for is to see something pull them rather than us push them.

[00:41:39] And as soon as you feel that pull, like I think that's the moment where you have to go, all right, let's throw everything at this.

[00:41:46] Yeah.

[00:41:47] Yeah.

[00:41:48] And even with my parenting, my little fellow at the moment, he's so attached to me.

[00:41:54] He's daddy's boy.

[00:41:56] Last year I did a lot of theatre work, which took me, you know, I'm theatre worky working at night.

[00:42:00] I would have him.

[00:42:02] I'd pick him up from school.

[00:42:04] And then I'd have to go to work two hours later, go to the opera house and do a show.

[00:42:10] And it was really tough.

[00:42:12] He was, you know, he's got this really sort of, the moment is really attached to me.

[00:42:18] And so it was hard to leave him, leave him with Kelly, my partner.

[00:42:21] I would come off stage and I have 10 text messages saying, daddy, when are you coming home?

[00:42:26] It was really hard.

[00:42:27] So I've stepped away from my theatre work all this year.

[00:42:30] I've said no to it.

[00:42:31] Because of?

[00:42:31] Because of my little fellow.

[00:42:32] Yeah, I have to be there for him.

[00:42:34] It's a sacrifice.

[00:42:35] It's more sacrifice.

[00:42:36] No, I mean, it is a, that is a sacrifice.

[00:42:40] That's a really interesting one because that's almost that crossroad of tough love versus, I'm going to, he's different.

[00:42:47] Or, you know.

[00:42:47] Yep.

[00:42:48] I suppose it's that thing we were talking about earlier of like, you've done this before 13 years ago with your 23-year-old.

[00:42:54] Yeah.

[00:42:55] And, but maybe you're doing it differently now.

[00:42:57] Maybe you're like, but he's just, he's a different kid.

[00:43:00] So he requires a different thing.

[00:43:02] So there is, there is that feeling of, there always a new unique combination of factors.

[00:43:08] Like, even if you've had a kid.

[00:43:10] Yes.

[00:43:10] That age before.

[00:43:11] Yep.

[00:43:11] They're going to be that different kid.

[00:43:13] But what I, what I really find interesting is like, this is that tough love crossroad where you could just say to him, hey mate, this is, dad's got to work.

[00:43:19] Like, this is a reality.

[00:43:21] Yeah.

[00:43:22] You know, you know, I'll be home, blah, blah, blah, all those, the logic side of it.

[00:43:25] Yeah.

[00:43:25] But it sounds to me like you've instead just gone, hey, I can see this is where your heart is.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:31] And I'm going to respond to that.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:33] And I had to, it was just, it became pretty intense and it's still a work in progress, but I have no regrets whatsoever.

[00:43:42] I pulled out of a few theatre productions this year because of it, but I'm there for him.

[00:43:48] That's my main, that's always been my main role.

[00:43:50] And are you, do you tell that to the productions?

[00:43:52] Do you just.

[00:43:53] No.

[00:43:54] Yeah.

[00:43:54] So no.

[00:43:55] Yep.

[00:43:55] Yep.

[00:43:56] And that's my most important role is that of a father.

[00:44:00] Always has been.

[00:44:02] And I grab it with both hands when I first became a dad 23 years ago.

[00:44:07] And yeah, I love it.

[00:44:09] I love being a father.

[00:44:10] I love that.

[00:44:11] Like, I think a lot of people say that and do it.

[00:44:14] And everyone's circumstances are different.

[00:44:15] But I think that's a pretty concrete example of someone like actually walking the walk.

[00:44:21] Yeah.

[00:44:22] That's beautiful, man.

[00:44:23] Mate, thank you so much.

[00:44:24] Like, I really enjoyed this, mate.

[00:44:25] Cheers.

[00:44:25] Thanks, legend.

[00:44:26] Thanks, mate.

[00:44:27] Cheers, man.

[00:44:28] Cheers.

[00:44:29] Mish is glad that he talked to another dad.

[00:44:31] Now he's going to say some other stuff, but he will be by himself.

[00:44:37] Top bloke.

[00:44:38] Again, another one of these joyful conversations.

[00:44:40] It does feel really infectious chatting to him.

[00:44:43] But I really kind of love there at the end too that you can tell, you know,

[00:44:47] that there's that sacrifice in it too.

[00:44:49] I think a lot of people know that.

[00:44:52] I reckon I catch myself doing this too where I know you kind of have that call

[00:44:57] where you're like, okay, I'll make sacrifices if needs be.

[00:44:59] And you're kind of always making a value judgment of like, is this serious?

[00:45:02] Should I be cancelling things to be there for my kid?

[00:45:05] And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't, if I'm being really honest.

[00:45:08] I kind of go, no, I think they're all right.

[00:45:10] I think, I don't know if that, I think we can all, you know,

[00:45:12] we can still do our own thing.

[00:45:14] But to hear him identifying that, putting his kids as clearly his top priority

[00:45:21] and doing what he did for his boy,

[00:45:23] and I'm sure on many other occasions that he didn't talk about,

[00:45:26] that's really beautiful.

[00:45:27] And he walked the walk.

[00:45:29] You know, I was going to say extra points for walking the walk,

[00:45:31] but really it's the only points you get.

[00:45:34] You don't really get that many points for talking the talk.

[00:45:36] You've got to walk the walk.

[00:45:37] So love that.

[00:45:39] Beautiful to hear him talk so honestly and openly about his life.

[00:45:42] I know it would have helped a lot of people.

[00:45:44] And as always, it gives us, you know,

[00:45:46] just gives us a lot of stuff to think about.

[00:45:47] So thank you, Luke.

[00:45:49] Super appreciate it.

[00:45:50] Thank you for listening.

[00:45:51] We've got a lot more awesome, awesome blokes coming up this season.

[00:45:55] So thank you for everyone for your continued support and feedback

[00:45:59] and general investment, I suppose,

[00:46:03] in making this a happier and more engaged place for our kids,

[00:46:08] which is what it's all about.

[00:46:09] Whether you're kids or just kids you know

[00:46:11] or kids you may well have in the future,

[00:46:13] I think it's an awesome thing that you're listening to this

[00:46:15] and that we're all trying to figure this out together.

[00:46:18] So thank you.

[00:46:18] I will speak to you next time.

[00:46:21] How Are The Dad's Dad?

[00:46:23] How Are The Dad's Dad?

[00:46:26] How Are The Dad's Dad is produced by myself and my mate Tim Bartley.

[00:46:31] The theme song is thanks to the incredibly talented Tom Carty.

[00:46:36] You can find him drenched throughout the internet.

[00:46:39] We recorded this particular episode on the lands of the Guttigal people

[00:46:42] of the Euro Nation and we pay our respect to their culture of storytelling

[00:46:45] that has survived for thousands of years.

[00:46:48] If you want to say hi, head to our website,

[00:46:51] howarethedadsdad.com.

[00:46:52] But most of all, thank you for listening.

[00:46:54] Hamish is a dad who just spoke with a dad

[00:46:57] and it blew his tiny mind about what he learned.

[00:47:01] So he'll keep on the dads and force them to talk to him.

[00:47:04] So he can find Other Dad's Dad.

[00:47:08] Thank you.