How Michael “Wippa” Wipfli Dads - Nothing is impossible, (Except, maybe a serious conversation with Hame)

[00:00:00] Alright, if you've heard a lot of How Other Dads Dad, you know the drill. Before we get into the actual ins and outs on different people's philosophies on fathering and parenthood and life philosophies, there's another thing that's probably the thing we're most passionate about, you know, the love we feel as dads and people wanting to do a good job or a better job at being a dad.

[00:00:23] But, you know, the second most thing we're passionate about is making sure you hire the right car should you go on an adventure. I don't think that's too clunky a link because if you are in the market, whether it's for business or pleasure, we'd always of course hire it with our best friends of the podcast, Hertz, who cover the expenses of this show, cover the costs of this show. Hertz, what legends, Hertz.com.au forward slash How Other Dads Dad.

[00:00:47] Whether you are going on a family adventure or even a family business holiday. I mean, I'm sure that's a thing that you could take your kids along to see how you do business. Obviously, you want to balance it too with, you know, making sure you've got enough time for them. We've gone down an unlucky rabbit hole. What I'm saying is if you need a car, just go to Hertz.com.au forward slash H-O-D-D. That's How Other Dads Dad. You can get 25% off the base rate. Terms of conditions apply. Thank you, Hertz. Let's do the episode.

[00:01:19] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad. So he makes this show where he talks to other dads so he can find out how other dads get.

[00:01:38] All right. Today we have Michael John, quote, Whipper, end quote, Whipfleet. If you're in Sydney or you listen to Nova Radio or you've seen any one of a bunch of television shows that these appear on, you'd be very familiar with Whipper.

[00:01:53] But most recently did some great work with Sean McAuliffe, if you happen to catch it on SBS, on Country of Origin, I believe the show is called.

[00:02:02] But look, Whip is a very, very dear friend of mine, a best mate of mine.

[00:02:07] He, you know, he's godfather to my children, even though we're not religious.

[00:02:11] It just feels like a nice, fun thing to have.

[00:02:15] We're very, very close.

[00:02:16] We've known each other since we were teenagers.

[00:02:17] We have ridden the highs and lows and weirdness of our careers and personal lives together.

[00:02:23] And I adore Whip as a mate.

[00:02:26] I'm giving the preamble because whilst a lot of the people that come on How Are The Dads Dad, I mean, I essentially just use this as a place to have meaningful conversations with people that I'm really close to, but we don't often get to talk in this way.

[00:02:37] Sometimes I've not met the person before.

[00:02:39] Or clearly with Whip, I very much have met him and been through a lot.

[00:02:44] And I guess with that comes a, this is a different kind of conversation because it breeds a real familiarity.

[00:02:50] Whip also has been, you know, 15 years in commercial radio, so his brain is always going to go for like a pretty base joke.

[00:02:56] And there's a bit of that in there too.

[00:02:58] But really, I love Whip as a human being and I get to see how he is such a committed father.

[00:03:06] But not just a committed father.

[00:03:08] And we do talk about this in the episode, but I'll say it up the front too because I think you've got to lead off with a compliment.

[00:03:14] And with, you can't just have someone on because they're a mate.

[00:03:17] There is a reason I admire Whip so much as a dad.

[00:03:20] And because he has a infectious enthusiasm for life and for the living.

[00:03:26] And I think he brings that to the activities that he does with his kids, but just the way that he parents as well.

[00:03:33] And I think one of the things that is so beautiful in kids and in our own kids that we all love is we love seeing that twinkle in their eye, like of possibility and of excitement.

[00:03:44] And it's magic to us.

[00:03:45] And we want to capture it and we want to nurture that flame and let it grow into its own thing.

[00:03:50] And I love Whip as a mate because he still has that twinkle in his eye as an adult.

[00:03:53] And I think he puts a lot of twinkle in people's eyes.

[00:03:58] So, very lucky to have that in him as a mate.

[00:04:01] But I really did relish this chance to kind of sit down because even sometimes with our best mates, we don't often get to have these talks.

[00:04:08] And it was super, super, you know, heartwarming, rewarding.

[00:04:12] And look, you know, obviously at times just a little bit silly too.

[00:04:16] I hope you enjoy How Whip a Dads.

[00:04:18] How Whip a Dads.

[00:04:22] How Whip a Dads.

[00:04:26] It's a really directional one.

[00:04:28] Sure.

[00:04:29] It's just think back to Port Augusta, CdFM.

[00:04:33] Platinum really good on the mic.

[00:04:35] It's a pub mic.

[00:04:36] I forgot about that.

[00:04:37] Like if I was to draw a circle with my name in the middle and you looked at all the arms coming off, music would definitely be a big reach, wouldn't it?

[00:04:43] Oh, it'd be a small.

[00:04:47] Baby, I got you on my mind.

[00:04:51] Great to have you, Whip.

[00:04:55] Do you start most episodes with a little bit of a-

[00:04:57] Yeah, we do a powder finger warm up.

[00:04:58] You do do?

[00:04:58] Okay.

[00:04:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:59] Have you not heard this season?

[00:05:01] No, no.

[00:05:01] But I don't remember Brett McKenzie doing any powder finger.

[00:05:04] Yeah, we might have had to edit that out.

[00:05:06] Just it was really good.

[00:05:07] Look, thank you for that.

[00:05:12] I think it's actually not a bad place to start because we were referencing your old cover band called Platinum.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:20] When was that?

[00:05:20] When did you reform Platinum?

[00:05:22] 15 years ago?

[00:05:23] Platinum launched, oh, God, you'd probably be going back 20.

[00:05:27] I mean, you were a fan from the start so you would know that we're around.

[00:05:31] Just to really speed things up, I don't want to do the history of Platinum here.

[00:05:35] I just wanted to use a story to highlight how long we've been friends for.

[00:05:39] Oh, okay.

[00:05:40] But then you had Platinum, that was your high school sort of pub cover band.

[00:05:44] Yeah.

[00:05:44] We were mates from high school.

[00:05:45] Why don't we reinforce the significance you had in the band, which was Intro Guy.

[00:05:49] I introed the reformation of Platinum.

[00:05:52] And at the time, we were all living in Melbourne and you sent out an invite going,

[00:05:58] best party ever.

[00:05:59] Ever.

[00:06:01] Where you're like, we're an amazing outfit and like can't tell you what the party's about.

[00:06:08] Yeah.

[00:06:08] But you've got to be there.

[00:06:09] Big announcement.

[00:06:10] You sent it interstate.

[00:06:11] Big announcement.

[00:06:12] You've got to be there.

[00:06:13] You were going out with a young lady at the time.

[00:06:14] The general consensus was you got engaged.

[00:06:17] Oh, come on.

[00:06:18] And this was the engagement party.

[00:06:20] It was bigger than that.

[00:06:21] And then people flew from interstate thinking it was an engagement party.

[00:06:25] And then we turned up and the big announcement was Platinum's back.

[00:06:31] Ladies and gentlemen, Platinum's back.

[00:06:33] Baby, I got you on my mind.

[00:06:37] And you could have heard a pin drop when I go, Platinum's back.

[00:06:41] That's what we're here for.

[00:06:43] What?

[00:06:43] And everyone went.

[00:06:44] Who's that?

[00:06:44] Sorry, was there engagement ring Platinum?

[00:06:47] What are you talking about?

[00:06:48] What is Platinum?

[00:06:49] Quick question.

[00:06:49] Don't tell us we came to watch three guys play powder finger covers.

[00:06:52] Tommy McCubbin.

[00:06:53] Sing it again, mate.

[00:06:55] So it's a special moment.

[00:06:56] But anyway, that's.

[00:06:57] Sorry.

[00:06:58] What are we talking?

[00:06:58] 15 years ago?

[00:06:59] Yeah, I'd say so.

[00:07:00] So I mean this is going to be a bit of a different episode because we have so much shared history.

[00:07:05] But what I sort of wanted to do is go, I wanted to have you on this because under the rules of the show,

[00:07:14] which is having men on who I admire as fathers.

[00:07:18] Here we go.

[00:07:18] So.

[00:07:19] Well, I have to have whip on.

[00:07:20] But there was always a part of me going, well, but you know, he's my best mate and we know each other so well.

[00:07:25] Like, haven't I learnt so much anyway?

[00:07:28] How foolish of you.

[00:07:29] From just.

[00:07:29] To think you've milked me entirely.

[00:07:31] No, but now.

[00:07:32] I'm always teaching you things.

[00:07:34] Let us find a new teat.

[00:07:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:37] Okay.

[00:07:38] Consider yourself a student of life.

[00:07:41] Litmus paper blank.

[00:07:43] He's always trying to absorb everything I have to say.

[00:07:46] Yep.

[00:07:46] Soak it up, mate.

[00:07:47] Welcome to How Are The Dads Dad.

[00:07:50] With whipper.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:51] You're not getting in the promo, mate.

[00:07:52] Sorry.

[00:07:55] But.

[00:07:55] You gave me the sheet.

[00:07:58] Honestly, to.

[00:08:00] In that vein, I was like, I think there's probably some things that we haven't talked about in terms of being dads.

[00:08:05] And if there's one thing I've loved about the show, it is getting the chance to do that.

[00:08:09] Like, and I think from what I can gather from a lot of guys that listen to the show, that's often it's sort of the people that you're closest to that you sort of go, well, we both, we all feel this stuff.

[00:08:19] We actually never get a chance to talk about it deeply.

[00:08:23] And there's a few different places that I want to bounce around to.

[00:08:26] But one of the things I thought about leading into this was I've often thought of your dad.

[00:08:31] Yep.

[00:08:32] Big Johnny.

[00:08:32] Johnny.

[00:08:33] John Whitley as a great dad.

[00:08:35] Yep.

[00:08:36] And I always looked at the relationship you had with your dad and went, gee, there's a lot in that.

[00:08:42] There's a lot in his fathering, even just as a mate of his son that I took away as I grew up.

[00:08:49] You know, I met him when I was in my 20s.

[00:08:51] Yep.

[00:08:51] But I still think about stuff that John does.

[00:08:53] Oh, that's kind.

[00:08:56] And it's a very powerful thing, you know, to have to see other dads like that in the world.

[00:09:02] Tell us a little bit about your relationship with Johnny.

[00:09:04] Big Johnny, if I was to compliment him on his fathering, I think the test as a dad too is to be able to play the fathering role consistently through different stages of your kids' lives.

[00:09:21] Yep.

[00:09:21] So, he moved very quickly from nappy time.

[00:09:25] In fact, he didn't do that.

[00:09:26] He called a district nurse one time because he didn't know how to change.

[00:09:29] So, he failed that.

[00:09:30] So, I'll under.

[00:09:31] Can we go from the top, guys?

[00:09:32] So, besides the child.

[00:09:33] Consistently aware of where his strengths and weaknesses are.

[00:09:36] Called a district nurse.

[00:09:37] But no, he called a district nurse.

[00:09:38] He'll deny that until you it was somebody else.

[00:09:40] He's changed the story over the years.

[00:09:41] He's now pulling out of a lot of his stories.

[00:09:44] So, no, but he was able to be the dad throughout and still to this day, he's still the dad.

[00:09:49] He's just playing different roles.

[00:09:51] So, you know, you don't pull him apart for life advice when you're seven years old.

[00:09:57] He's just helping you with the basics and maybe a bit of sport and kicking the footy in the park.

[00:10:00] And then you transition into a teenager and you continue through your 20s and it becomes about career and having those conversations.

[00:10:08] And then now you look for those bits of wisdom and the fact that he's got something that I simply can't have at my age and that's life experience.

[00:10:17] So, he's 76 years old.

[00:10:19] I mean, once again with the nappy situation, if I was to pull him apart again, he stumbled a little bit through the teenage years with sort of relationship advice.

[00:10:30] A little moments where, you know, I remember I was really keen on this girl and then she kissed somebody else and dad could tell that I was a bit upset about it.

[00:10:39] And I told dad what was wrong and he said, well, you need to hit her with a big question.

[00:10:44] You want to dance with me or do you want to dance elsewhere?

[00:10:51] Wow.

[00:10:54] What a vault.

[00:10:55] Yes.

[00:10:55] What a vault of advice.

[00:10:57] What a treasure.

[00:10:57] He opened it and it poured out to me and I soaked up every word of it.

[00:11:00] And did you try that?

[00:11:02] No.

[00:11:02] No, I didn't go with that.

[00:11:03] Look, it didn't work out anyway.

[00:11:05] Yeah, because you weren't living in a 1940s movie.

[00:11:08] No, I wasn't.

[00:11:09] So, there were moments like that where he still feels like maybe his relationship advice wasn't the best.

[00:11:15] But in-

[00:11:16] He did his best.

[00:11:17] In looking back at that though, that he was there and trying.

[00:11:22] Yeah.

[00:11:22] What's the message under that?

[00:11:24] Oh, yeah, of course.

[00:11:25] It's the pure love that's always there.

[00:11:27] But generally, as you get older too and as you're a dad, you think about when you would share things with your dad.

[00:11:32] Like if you were to speak emotionally to your dad, it was a big moment.

[00:11:36] You knew you wanted to.

[00:11:38] Like even as an adult when I'd met Lisa, dad and I were driving in the car and I remember I desperately wanted to say to him, I've met someone special.

[00:11:46] And to get those words out of my mouth took so much.

[00:11:49] But as a dad, you think that's all I want my kid to do is feel open enough to share.

[00:11:56] Like when you sit down with Ted or Jack now or Francesca and say, what's going on?

[00:12:00] You want them to feel comfortable about that.

[00:12:02] But still, even as a 30 plus.

[00:12:04] Yeah, mate.

[00:12:05] I was so nervous to go, Ted, met someone special.

[00:12:08] What in his fathering do you reckon created an environment that meant you always did feel like you were able to share stuff?

[00:12:16] He's a very generous guy in nature and he's very thoughtful of other people.

[00:12:22] So he's one of those always put myself second type of guys.

[00:12:25] But he also, he lost his dad when he was 17.

[00:12:28] So I think he always felt like he can't believe he has the family that he has today because he was an only child.

[00:12:34] He was in year 12 when his dad died.

[00:12:37] So, you know, he was doing schooling, got a call to go to the principal's office.

[00:12:42] Principal said you need to go to the hospital to say goodbye.

[00:12:44] Like it was a sheer one.

[00:12:45] That's really bad.

[00:12:47] And his mate had lost his father as well.

[00:12:49] So they sort of bonded over that.

[00:12:52] So I think he just saw the value of family as something that he always wanted and dreamt about having a good unit, you know, and a strong family.

[00:13:03] So I think that's why he had such an open heart to making sure that that love and support was always there.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:10] I mean, he is a really generous guy.

[00:13:11] That's one thing I've always loved about your dad.

[00:13:13] And he's always interested, always interested in what people are doing.

[00:13:16] Probably you a little bit more because he's sort of, there's two things that make him laugh.

[00:13:20] It's Hamish Blake and Hey, Hey, it's Saturday.

[00:13:22] And he's always pestering me for Daryl Summers' phone number.

[00:13:27] So, I mean, he's always been a big fan of yours.

[00:13:29] I mean, I think we all, I mean, I even had a moment the other night where with my little boy, like as we're going to bed or as I'm putting him to bed.

[00:13:40] It's funny when the things pop out, isn't it?

[00:13:41] When they're like, Oh, Hey dad, I have a funny one at lunchtime today.

[00:13:45] You've got to be so careful that those things don't pop up and get ignored or rushed past because you realise how big it is for a kid to do it.

[00:13:54] And it's only by lots and lots of little iterations of them doing it that they continue to feel comfortable coming to you with their feelings.

[00:14:02] I think what you have with your dad is kind of the holy grail of what we talk about on this show, which is a kid that's comfortable coming to their dad with a problem or with feelings.

[00:14:15] I mean, like the fact, how often do you talk to your dad?

[00:14:18] Every day.

[00:14:18] Every day.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:20] But it's almost like.

[00:14:21] I mean, that blows my mind.

[00:14:23] I don't have that relationship with my dad.

[00:14:26] I mean, after the third or fourth time of me calling him, if I tried to instigate a daily thing and him going, mate, what's going on?

[00:14:35] I'm very busy.

[00:14:37] You know what I mean?

[00:14:38] Is this another bum doll?

[00:14:39] But you've got that.

[00:14:41] You've got that.

[00:14:41] And I'm really interested to know, I think, where that came from or what the stepping stones do you reckon are that led to having that?

[00:14:48] There's two parts to it as well, which I was thinking about the other day.

[00:14:52] I think sons of dads.

[00:14:55] Sons of dads.

[00:14:58] When the dad has a son, the son has the dad.

[00:15:01] The son is of the dad.

[00:15:02] Yes.

[00:15:02] The son is of the dad.

[00:15:03] Sorry.

[00:15:04] In whatever the makeup of the family is, a parental role.

[00:15:08] Yes.

[00:15:09] I'm very 2024.

[00:15:10] Of course.

[00:15:12] There's always that feeling, and this has been big with me, of wanting to do my dad proud.

[00:15:19] Like this, at times, has hung heavy over my head where, not that I ever went off the rails or anything.

[00:15:27] I don't know.

[00:15:28] I just always, and he would always tell me, oh, mate, that's fantastic.

[00:15:33] I can't tell you how proud I am.

[00:15:34] That is awesome.

[00:15:36] But still.

[00:15:38] Did you hear it as that?

[00:15:39] Yeah, I knew he meant it, but I just wouldn't accept it.

[00:15:45] And I think only recently, and I mean this year, have I gone, you know what?

[00:15:52] I think dad's proud of me.

[00:15:54] And I don't know why.

[00:15:55] I don't know why now I think it's not so much him, but I'm allowing myself to hear that.

[00:16:01] Interesting.

[00:16:02] Yeah.

[00:16:02] You needed to be proud of you.

[00:16:04] I think so.

[00:16:05] Or needed to be significant enough that I was hearing it as something I was willing to accept and not just a line from a parent.

[00:16:15] So you're right.

[00:16:16] It needed to work with my level of what I should be proud of.

[00:16:19] And I think that was an interesting thing to sort of discover this year.

[00:16:23] It's a hard thing, isn't it, too?

[00:16:24] Because we, with our kids, we feel that happening.

[00:16:30] Like I get eye rolls from my kids now when I'm talking to them about how much I love them and how it's unconditional.

[00:16:38] You've told me that.

[00:16:39] Dad, I know.

[00:16:40] You've already said that.

[00:16:41] Rudy, like my little girl, will go like, okay.

[00:16:44] She knows I go, hey, Rudy, just let me finish.

[00:16:47] Like case in point, literally last night, I'm telling her that to me she's just pure magic.

[00:16:53] She goes, yeah, Dad, Dad, you're telling me.

[00:16:55] I was like, just, mate, I'm just saying, okay, maybe when you grow up, maybe not right now, but maybe tomorrow at school you might like to remember that no matter what, your dad loves you more than anything just because of who you are.

[00:17:08] She goes, okay, great.

[00:17:09] Are you finished?

[00:17:10] And I go, yes.

[00:17:12] Are you finished?

[00:17:14] Yes.

[00:17:14] And she goes, right.

[00:17:16] Teach me to whistle.

[00:17:17] Okay.

[00:17:19] We're not really on the same page here.

[00:17:22] So I think there's a part of it's like we desperately want to get across this feeling and we only kind of – we have words for the moment.

[00:17:33] Yeah.

[00:17:33] But the only thing that works to communicate the feeling is actions in the long term, I suppose.

[00:17:39] It's just that you cannot do it in words.

[00:17:42] Even if we think as kids we just want to hear our parents say a certain set of words.

[00:17:47] What's deeper than that is like, I suppose, decades of showing it.

[00:17:51] And that's what you're –

[00:17:52] Reinforce.

[00:17:52] Demonstrate.

[00:17:52] That's what your dad has.

[00:17:53] So the other thing is too, you can tell the impact that your dad or your parent has on you by when you're in conversation and you're uncomfortable about something, how they can bring you the peace.

[00:18:05] What do you mean?

[00:18:06] So if it was something I was concerned about and it's playing on my mind and I ring dad and I say, dad, I just can't get this out of my mind.

[00:18:13] And with his experience in life and his – him being slightly removed from possibly whatever it is and he would say, oh, mate, you're jumping at shadows.

[00:18:23] And I go, do you think so?

[00:18:24] He goes, absolutely.

[00:18:25] Absolutely.

[00:18:25] You're overthinking it and that's what's happened here.

[00:18:28] That can buy you so much peace.

[00:18:30] Interesting.

[00:18:31] So it's almost – it sounds to me like rather than, you know, you need to hear him be proud of you.

[00:18:38] Like he helped you when there was that tendency to over worry or beat yourself up about stuff.

[00:18:44] He was able to reassure you that that – you didn't need to be your own worst enemy.

[00:18:50] And that's the funny thing because I don't think he applied any pressure as such.

[00:18:55] He was always kind of firm and hard on rules and presentation.

[00:19:00] That's interesting.

[00:19:02] Things like that.

[00:19:03] So standards and boundaries were big.

[00:19:07] They were solid.

[00:19:09] So, you know, I remember having an argument with him because my presentation wasn't right or something.

[00:19:14] I went to a great stage of realising how many awesome sort of ex-taxi driver shirts you could buy from op shops.

[00:19:21] Okay.

[00:19:21] So I'd go down to the cell bars and I'd pick up a shirt.

[00:19:23] Right.

[00:19:23] So your presentation is in your physical presentation.

[00:19:25] I thought you'd done a presentation at school or something.

[00:19:27] Oh, no, I never did any of that.

[00:19:28] Mum did that.

[00:19:28] I was like, what?

[00:19:31] School work?

[00:19:32] Not from what I understand your schooling to be.

[00:19:34] What are you laughing at, Bartley?

[00:19:37] Well, on that point, school was different for you, right?

[00:19:42] Like academically.

[00:19:44] How did your dad react to that?

[00:19:46] Was he supportive?

[00:19:46] Yeah, he was supportive.

[00:19:48] Really well phrased.

[00:19:49] Really great question.

[00:19:49] Really well phrased.

[00:19:50] Thank you so much, Tim, for your input.

[00:19:51] I look forward to lunch after this.

[00:19:53] What Tim is saying.

[00:19:57] You got at the end of year 12, everyone obviously gets their enter or their ATAR.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:01] It's a rank out of 100.

[00:20:02] But if you're below 15, you get a state secret.

[00:20:05] You do.

[00:20:05] You get a state secret.

[00:20:06] I didn't get that.

[00:20:07] You didn't?

[00:20:08] Because no, I didn't.

[00:20:09] I got a 16.6 rounded up to 17, in fact.

[00:20:12] So they went the other way.

[00:20:13] They went, great effort, mate.

[00:20:15] Okay.

[00:20:15] We'll leave that to one side.

[00:20:16] So once again, I think John.

[00:20:18] No, but in all seriousness, how did he?

[00:20:20] He was okay.

[00:20:20] He had to adjust his expectations.

[00:20:22] Expectations.

[00:20:23] Yeah, because, I mean, he knew that I wasn't an academic.

[00:20:26] But at the same time, he knew that I love school.

[00:20:29] I love my sport.

[00:20:30] I do know this story and I do love the advice he gave you.

[00:20:33] What were your instructions in year 12 from him?

[00:20:35] Just finish.

[00:20:36] Finish the year.

[00:20:37] It doesn't matter what the score is.

[00:20:38] Just get the certificate.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:40] Is that the story you were talking about?

[00:20:41] Well, that.

[00:20:42] But I also remember him saying to you, you're, you know,

[00:20:46] a beloved student.

[00:20:47] Like, you know, you loved going to school.

[00:20:49] Let's not go through all of it.

[00:20:50] But won a couple of riding competitions and was house captain

[00:20:52] and school officer and stuff.

[00:20:55] Wow.

[00:20:56] School officer.

[00:20:58] What a flex.

[00:21:00] No, that's cool if you still hang on to that.

[00:21:01] Pretty big stuff.

[00:21:02] But what I mean is like he could see what it was doing for you socially.

[00:21:05] Yes.

[00:21:06] And he could see what he could.

[00:21:07] And he, in his wisdom was, as we all now know,

[00:21:10] like no one gives a shit what your high school score was,

[00:21:12] he could play the long game to go,

[00:21:14] there are huge benefits for you being here.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:18] To not get discouraged by academic performance.

[00:21:20] No.

[00:21:20] And he would say to me,

[00:21:21] I would have given anything to have half the skills you have.

[00:21:24] Yeah.

[00:21:25] He must have been an absolute social klutz.

[00:21:28] This stumbling mess.

[00:21:29] But that is beautiful.

[00:21:31] That is beautiful.

[00:21:32] At a time when kids are, you know,

[00:21:33] I've got a few friends whose kids are going through year 12 at the moment.

[00:21:36] It's intense.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:38] And it's not getting any less intense.

[00:21:41] To have someone be able to reframe it like that,

[00:21:45] that's a life-changing thing.

[00:21:47] But he also knew school wasn't going to be my thing.

[00:21:50] Yeah.

[00:21:50] That was the great thing.

[00:21:51] And, you know,

[00:21:52] I remember when I went and did a hospitality course.

[00:21:56] Like he probably knew then that wasn't going to be my thing,

[00:21:59] but he would let me work that out.

[00:22:00] Then I did a building course, which I loved.

[00:22:03] Anything that I wanted to do,

[00:22:05] he just backed it in 100%.

[00:22:07] I think that was the other thing.

[00:22:09] That again to me is real gold standard.

[00:22:11] Oh, you know what?

[00:22:11] No, he didn't.

[00:22:12] I lied.

[00:22:12] I wanted to be a boat builder in Tasmania.

[00:22:14] There was a course that he went,

[00:22:16] what are you going to do there?

[00:22:18] He obviously just didn't want me to move to Tasmania.

[00:22:20] That's true.

[00:22:22] But I would have loved to have built boats,

[00:22:24] but he ruined that dream for me.

[00:22:26] Good.

[00:22:27] We finally arrived.

[00:22:28] John Whipley.

[00:22:30] You're a shock.

[00:22:32] John Whipley.

[00:22:33] Shock.

[00:22:34] What I love about that though,

[00:22:35] and like what I have seen in your relationship with your dad

[00:22:38] throughout the whole, you know,

[00:22:39] the 20,

[00:22:39] 25 years we've been friends is,

[00:22:41] is it's clear the effect that having that level of support has on a kid.

[00:22:51] That's just such a powerful thing.

[00:22:53] And now we look at ourselves as we're fathers.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:55] And amongst many of the other things is that,

[00:23:00] is taking that side of John,

[00:23:02] the support and creating an environment where you feel so open.

[00:23:07] Yeah.

[00:23:07] You feel so welcomed to share your feelings.

[00:23:10] You're now on the other side of the fence

[00:23:12] and you're trying to create that for your two boys and your daughter.

[00:23:15] How do you feel, you know,

[00:23:18] how do you feel you're going at that task?

[00:23:20] Great question, Harish.

[00:23:21] Thank you so much.

[00:23:22] Thanks for the opportunity to share halfway through the chat.

[00:23:26] You know what?

[00:23:27] Well, sorry,

[00:23:27] we've got a bit distracted talking about your band,

[00:23:29] but now we're here.

[00:23:30] It's good to bring it back.

[00:23:31] How do you feel?

[00:23:32] Yeah.

[00:23:32] So.

[00:23:32] I think I'm very conscious and I only realised this the other day.

[00:23:36] You know when you tell your kids off or you crack the poos about something

[00:23:40] and then you go, well, it's no big deal because it's just me.

[00:23:44] Yeah.

[00:23:44] Do you know what I mean?

[00:23:45] It's always us.

[00:23:45] It's always just me.

[00:23:46] Like, but more to the point,

[00:23:48] you don't think you have the impact.

[00:23:50] You don't think about the impact.

[00:23:52] You don't realise the impact.

[00:23:53] Because you don't.

[00:23:54] I'm not sure that I'm such a high impact,

[00:23:59] strict father.

[00:24:00] Do you know what I mean?

[00:24:02] Yeah.

[00:24:02] Like if dad ever said to me and he did once,

[00:24:03] he said, I can't remember what for,

[00:24:06] but he sat down and just said,

[00:24:08] you're better than that.

[00:24:09] I don't.

[00:24:10] Oh my God.

[00:24:11] Sent my spine shaking.

[00:24:14] You're better than that.

[00:24:16] And it was like, oh man.

[00:24:18] You don't think you have that power over your kids?

[00:24:21] I think I have it,

[00:24:23] but I don't know the impact of that.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:27] So I don't know the power in using.

[00:24:32] It means the same thing.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] So if I turn around to Ted and say,

[00:24:34] mate, you're better than that.

[00:24:36] I don't think it would hit the way it hit from John.

[00:24:39] Yeah.

[00:24:39] Why is that?

[00:24:39] Probably because I'm a bit of a looser father than John was.

[00:24:42] You know, he was pretty,

[00:24:44] just he's more of a straight E 180.

[00:24:46] Do you know what I mean?

[00:24:47] And I suppose if there's some,

[00:24:48] if you grew up with very clear boundaries.

[00:24:52] Yeah.

[00:24:53] Then you're very aware of when you cross them or not.

[00:24:56] But, and also I think it was kind of this way or that way.

[00:25:00] And that's how it worked.

[00:25:02] It was binary.

[00:25:03] Yeah.

[00:25:03] There wasn't any conversation around,

[00:25:05] hey Teddy, here's what I'm trying to do.

[00:25:07] And I need teamwork.

[00:25:08] We didn't really talk like that growing up.

[00:25:10] Yeah.

[00:25:10] And that is something you've introduced.

[00:25:12] Yeah.

[00:25:12] More of a modern day father technique, I reckon.

[00:25:14] And that's naturally because we're amongst the more and around the more.

[00:25:17] And dad plays a much more, a bigger role day to day.

[00:25:21] But, you know, we do a lot of, mate, I need you now.

[00:25:24] I really need your help.

[00:25:25] Go and change that T-shirt because we've got to get out of here.

[00:25:27] You know, it's going to be great.

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:29] But dad, it's your T-shirt and you put barbecue sauce on it.

[00:25:31] Well, it's going to fit anyway.

[00:25:32] Put it on.

[00:25:33] We're going to get you a new one when we're out.

[00:25:35] But it, it's a tricky one, isn't it?

[00:25:38] Because we don't want to become authoritarian.

[00:25:42] Like we don't want to be a policeman that we know that doesn't,

[00:25:46] that's not, we can feel in our hearts that we know it's like to be a kid

[00:25:49] and have that feeling and we don't want that feeling.

[00:25:51] But we still want to main, but there's still, there's a healthy,

[00:25:56] a huge healthy aspect to having authority.

[00:26:00] Yeah.

[00:26:00] Like to go, to be the grown up.

[00:26:03] Yep.

[00:26:03] To the kid.

[00:26:04] To go, I'm the leader.

[00:26:05] Hey guys, we're doing it like this.

[00:26:06] I've got your best interests at heart and we're doing it this way.

[00:26:09] And that, do you feel like that's more of the way that modern boundaries are set?

[00:26:13] So you're always going to get to that point when you've got three kids.

[00:26:16] Because at some stage you're going to have to go, no, that's just,

[00:26:19] if we're going to get to that point then we will get there.

[00:26:21] But I said something to Ted the other day.

[00:26:23] It was something so small.

[00:26:25] Yeah.

[00:26:25] But he burst into tears.

[00:26:27] It's like holding his pencil wrong or something, doing his homework.

[00:26:31] And I was like, man, I've told you over and over again,

[00:26:33] that is not how you hold your pencil.

[00:26:35] But that must have cut through to him.

[00:26:38] I mean, you could, you know, he might have been tired or whatever,

[00:26:40] but for some reason in that moment that was the authority coming down

[00:26:46] and saying enough's enough of holding your pencil like that,

[00:26:48] if that's what the example was.

[00:26:50] So then I took that on board of going, okay, well,

[00:26:53] now I know the impact that I'm having if I build it to that point.

[00:26:57] I need to be aware of that.

[00:26:58] I would say we always have more impact than we think.

[00:27:01] Yeah.

[00:27:02] Couldn't agree more.

[00:27:04] Because I think back to some of the stuff that was said to me as a kid

[00:27:07] by my dad, my mum, people in authority,

[00:27:11] that they would have definitely forgotten.

[00:27:12] Yep.

[00:27:13] And thought it was just, oh, well,

[00:27:14] that was just a day when we were tense and it sticks with you for life.

[00:27:18] That's the constant tightrope we walk.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:20] Like you might accidentally just bump into something that then shatters forever

[00:27:25] and you've completely, you've created a scar.

[00:27:27] However, I think, Mike, along to sympathise,

[00:27:34] my common screw up on a daily basis is making the mistake

[00:27:40] of interpreting something that's not happening.

[00:27:44] Let's say it's taking a plate over to the sink or whatever it is,

[00:27:51] some small action that I interpret as not trying.

[00:27:55] Yeah.

[00:27:55] And then realising in hindsight with how much it's upset,

[00:28:01] I hurt the kids that they are trying.

[00:28:03] Yeah.

[00:28:04] And that breaks my heart on a daily basis.

[00:28:07] I reckon I make that mistake all the time where I'm like, hey, come on.

[00:28:11] Why are you trying?

[00:28:12] Dinner's ready.

[00:28:13] I don't say these words.

[00:28:15] You didn't say you're better than that, did you?

[00:28:16] But in my mind I'm going,

[00:28:17] I feel like they're deliberately trying to fuck with me.

[00:28:23] Yeah.

[00:28:23] And then you realise they're not.

[00:28:25] They're not.

[00:28:26] And now you're expecting them to think and act the way you act.

[00:28:29] Yeah.

[00:28:29] I mean, here's one, I mean, this is comical.

[00:28:31] It's almost like a script that broke my heart.

[00:28:35] It was just me at home.

[00:28:36] I'm making dinner for the kids.

[00:28:37] Zoe's out, was working or something.

[00:28:40] You know, and it's traditionally the half hour of screen time

[00:28:43] runs into dinner.

[00:28:45] Dinner, yeah.

[00:28:45] Because that's when I'm making dinner.

[00:28:47] Getting it ready.

[00:28:48] Guys, you know, come on.

[00:28:50] Dinner, dinner.

[00:28:51] The classic.

[00:28:52] It's on the table.

[00:28:53] It's cold.

[00:28:55] Rue's in her bedroom.

[00:28:56] Yeah.

[00:28:56] And she's just yelled something like, I heard it as like,

[00:29:00] I think I heard it as her going, I'm not going to have dinner.

[00:29:03] Yeah.

[00:29:03] Or something outrageous.

[00:29:04] I was like, no.

[00:29:06] Because if there's one couple of standards that we've established

[00:29:09] on this podcast, which is eat dinner as a family.

[00:29:11] Yep.

[00:29:11] No phones, like some pretty standard things.

[00:29:14] Straightforward.

[00:29:15] So we never don't.

[00:29:16] And I was just, I'm like, and I just said, not angrily,

[00:29:20] but within 10, Rue, you are, I put my head around like,

[00:29:24] you are absolutely having dinner.

[00:29:25] Get up here.

[00:29:26] I'm counting to 10.

[00:29:27] We are eating dinner.

[00:29:28] Like it's been whatever.

[00:29:30] Anyway, she bursts into tears.

[00:29:32] She was making me a card in her bedroom.

[00:29:37] Dad, I love you so much.

[00:29:38] You are so good to me.

[00:29:39] You never yell at me.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] And I always love your dinners.

[00:29:43] She came up, tears all over her face going,

[00:29:45] that's why I was like, I was making you this card.

[00:29:47] And it was like, dad, I love you so much.

[00:29:49] No matter what, you're my number one diamond in my life or whatever.

[00:29:52] I was like, do you know, your daughter is so smart.

[00:29:55] It wouldn't surprise me if she had those cards pre-written in her cupboard.

[00:29:59] Every time you call me and she's running late for dinner.

[00:30:01] She was in her bedroom on a junior vape.

[00:30:04] She would have been.

[00:30:05] And she would have bought out the dinner's ready card and gone,

[00:30:09] here, let's milk it.

[00:30:09] But it was one of those things where I was like, oh my God.

[00:30:12] This is a very extreme example of just a complete misread.

[00:30:18] Like I thought you were deliberately mucking around.

[00:30:20] You're actually writing me a very heartfelt note.

[00:30:23] But it's our stuff, right?

[00:30:25] It comes back to you going, it's your, my projection.

[00:30:27] I'm also trying to work out whether I'm being too loose.

[00:30:31] Like treating them like adults too much when they're just young kids.

[00:30:35] And I've been aware of that in the past.

[00:30:37] Then the other day, I mean, I don't say this for comical purposes,

[00:30:41] but we're at the park and there was a kid on top of the playground.

[00:30:46] Some older kids had been up there graffiting and they had just written pussy.

[00:30:53] Don't smile.

[00:30:54] Don't laugh at me.

[00:30:55] Don't laugh.

[00:30:55] Don't laugh at me.

[00:30:56] You're better than that.

[00:30:57] This is educational.

[00:30:58] This is an educational podcast.

[00:31:00] So they'd written pussy and this kid was yelling out pussy, pussy, pussy.

[00:31:04] You don't have to whisper it to me.

[00:31:05] I've heard it.

[00:31:06] And we usually just have adults listening to the show.

[00:31:09] Just felt bad to yell it out.

[00:31:11] So anyway, a couple of the mums are going, oh.

[00:31:14] And then one mum goes, stop saying that.

[00:31:17] So Ted comes over to me and says, what?

[00:31:18] And I said, well, it's a slang term for vagina.

[00:31:24] He said, all right.

[00:31:25] But in that moment, I said, and I explained it can be disrespectful as well,

[00:31:31] depending on how it's used.

[00:31:32] Well, I mean, you've had a, you've opened up a relevant.

[00:31:36] What do you think, Timmy?

[00:31:37] Would it have been about it?

[00:31:38] I just can't believe how you've lowered the tone so dramatically, so quickly.

[00:31:41] It wasn't lowered, but he laughed.

[00:31:42] We've had Stan Grant on this show.

[00:31:44] He laughed at the word.

[00:31:46] Yeah, but you knew what you were saying when you started this story.

[00:31:48] But I certainly didn't expect him to giggle his way through it like a child.

[00:31:52] I think if you rewind the tape, you might have made the, you definitely made the first.

[00:31:56] You smiled first.

[00:31:57] I might have made the first sound.

[00:31:58] Anyway, so what do you say to Ted?

[00:31:59] So then I explained what that was.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:01] So, but I don't know whether that is oversharing, whether he sees that as currency in the playground,

[00:32:08] whether he's going to tell his mates in a moment he's going to use it or, I don't know.

[00:32:12] He's not an adult.

[00:32:13] He's a child.

[00:32:14] That's the thing.

[00:32:15] This is the constant.

[00:32:15] You never know.

[00:32:16] There's definitely two arguments to make.

[00:32:18] On one hand, you go, well, the real world's out there.

[00:32:20] And if we don't explain the real world to them in a way they can understand, of course, someone else will.

[00:32:27] Yeah.

[00:32:27] And he's quite a mature kid.

[00:32:28] And, but then the other thing is like, of course, there's many, many things that we protect our eight, 10, 12 year olds from that we introduce at an appropriate time.

[00:32:39] So, I mean, everyone's making that call on a daily basis.

[00:32:41] You are making that call on a daily basis.

[00:32:43] And he'll come to me and ask me what this means.

[00:32:45] And I'm not going to make anything up.

[00:32:47] And we explain, well, you don't say that.

[00:32:50] And here's the sensitivity around that word.

[00:32:51] And so all of that is explained.

[00:32:54] Which I think is a great conversation to have early with kids, especially about words and the power of words.

[00:33:00] Do your kids know **** yet?

[00:33:02] Yeah.

[00:33:02] Do they?

[00:33:03] No.

[00:33:04] I only ask this because if my kids get it, it's good to know where it's probably come from.

[00:33:10] Got him.

[00:33:12] But Rue's obsessed with swearing.

[00:33:14] Okay.

[00:33:15] Because she's like, can I say an F word?

[00:33:17] I go, no, absolutely not, honey.

[00:33:18] Yeah.

[00:33:19] So she goes, can I swear underwater?

[00:33:21] And I'll be like, yeah, if we're in the pool.

[00:33:22] So she'll go under just, ah, ah, ah, ah.

[00:33:26] Feels good?

[00:33:26] Yeah.

[00:33:27] Comes out, okay, feel good.

[00:33:28] She's like, can you hear it?

[00:33:29] Can you hear it?

[00:33:29] Yeah, I can hear it a little bit.

[00:33:30] But that's good because I was like, I know you know what it is.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:34] And I know what it is.

[00:33:35] She's learning about the sensitivity of it.

[00:33:37] We don't say it around other people because they might not like hearing that word if we're in public.

[00:33:42] That might just make them feel uncomfortable.

[00:33:44] But between us, we have an understanding.

[00:33:47] And she's like, okay.

[00:33:48] Okay.

[00:33:49] And then she'll go, so then occasionally, just again, I don't know if this is good parenting or not, but it makes me laugh.

[00:33:56] She'll go, can I, please, can I just have an S?

[00:33:59] One S word.

[00:34:00] Two S words.

[00:34:00] Give me, let me have two.

[00:34:01] So the other one, there I go.

[00:34:02] I'll try to do two S's for a pay.

[00:34:03] There I go, okay.

[00:34:05] I'll give you one F and one S.

[00:34:06] She's like, really?

[00:34:07] And I said, yep.

[00:34:08] But in the car, it's like, you won't know when it's going to happen.

[00:34:13] And when I say go, you've got five seconds to use it.

[00:34:18] Awesome.

[00:34:18] Because I was like, I just want to put it in a sentence.

[00:34:20] I just want to see what comes out of her mouth.

[00:34:22] Right.

[00:34:22] I was like, you've got five seconds.

[00:34:24] Anyway, we're driving along, talking about stuff.

[00:34:26] Go.

[00:34:28] I just see her brain like overload, short circuit.

[00:34:32] She goes, oh shit, I want to rip your fucking beard off.

[00:34:38] I'm going to rip your fucking beard off.

[00:34:42] That's gold.

[00:34:43] That is gold.

[00:34:46] Oh, don't say that underwater.

[00:34:48] We'll all miss it.

[00:34:50] That is awesome.

[00:34:51] But anyway, I mean, I suppose that is the area of going, you know,

[00:34:59] we have a tendency, especially as you talk about like traditional parenting

[00:35:01] of like, you know, yes, no, follow these rules.

[00:35:04] As we grow up and we're like, all right, we want to,

[00:35:08] I think there's a natural tendency in this day and age to approach things,

[00:35:11] as you mentioned, like a bit more equal, a bit more like, hey, look,

[00:35:14] let's share.

[00:35:16] We want to move away from the, cause I said so.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:19] Like form of parenting.

[00:35:20] We're always happy to explain.

[00:35:21] Because I'm the dad.

[00:35:22] Yep.

[00:35:22] Because that's the rules.

[00:35:24] Yep.

[00:35:25] Having said that,

[00:35:26] we know that there does need to be an element of the rules in it.

[00:35:29] But I think as you move into more of like a, hey, everything's open,

[00:35:32] we're explaining everything.

[00:35:32] You do run into situations where you're like, all right, well,

[00:35:36] we're having more adult light conversations,

[00:35:39] especially when we're talking about our kids are the same age.

[00:35:41] So we've got, you know, give or take a few years from 10 years old.

[00:35:44] Yep.

[00:35:45] In that kind of like, you know, six to 10 band.

[00:35:47] And so you begin to go, I want to treat you like an adult.

[00:35:53] But I agree.

[00:35:53] The biggest mistakes I make are then forgetting that they're kids.

[00:35:59] Yeah.

[00:36:00] As well.

[00:36:00] And I guard against like the one thing where I draw the line is on

[00:36:05] confronting stories.

[00:36:07] I just,

[00:36:08] I want to hold them for as long as I can.

[00:36:10] Totally.

[00:36:10] Before they understand the ugly side of the world.

[00:36:13] So we were driving to footy the other day and Ted said,

[00:36:19] Hey dad.

[00:36:20] Two things.

[00:36:21] He wanted to know about God.

[00:36:23] Then he wanted to know about Hitler.

[00:36:25] And then he said, what's suicide?

[00:36:27] Knock off.

[00:36:27] Oh yeah.

[00:36:28] Big three.

[00:36:28] Okay.

[00:36:28] He goes, what's suicide?

[00:36:30] But that has an,

[00:36:31] that's another really big conversation where you have to very carefully

[00:36:37] tread the lines on explaining.

[00:36:39] Yeah.

[00:36:39] Cause quite often you're teaching yourself at the same time about how to

[00:36:44] craft the messaging and the lesson in what that is.

[00:36:48] Look,

[00:36:48] it's a really interesting area because as we said before,

[00:36:52] you don't get a warning.

[00:36:53] They don't go, Hey,

[00:36:55] next week I'm going to ask you about suicide.

[00:36:57] No,

[00:36:58] you don't.

[00:36:58] And by the way,

[00:36:59] I'm eight.

[00:36:59] Yep.

[00:37:00] So have a think about.

[00:37:01] We're arriving at footy in 30 seconds.

[00:37:03] No,

[00:37:04] you don't.

[00:37:04] You get it off the back of what's God.

[00:37:07] Where did we come from?

[00:37:08] Yeah.

[00:37:08] Why was Hitler allowed to exist?

[00:37:10] If there is a God,

[00:37:10] by the way,

[00:37:11] what suicide can I have a sausage?

[00:37:12] Yep.

[00:37:13] You're like,

[00:37:14] okay.

[00:37:15] So,

[00:37:15] but I do think that's an interesting assumption because so much of

[00:37:17] parenting is like that.

[00:37:18] And this kind of all ties back to exactly what we've been talking about,

[00:37:22] which is everyone's path and strategy will be different.

[00:37:27] We're obviously not the people or the show to tell people how to have

[00:37:30] those conversations with their kids,

[00:37:31] but you know,

[00:37:33] you have to introduce the world to them slowly.

[00:37:36] And no one knows their kid better than you know it.

[00:37:39] My,

[00:37:40] my general vibe on this is like,

[00:37:42] we know our kids the best shielding them.

[00:37:45] We know isn't the way,

[00:37:46] but then oversaturating is certainly not the way to,

[00:37:49] because it's so much harder for kids to be kids these days.

[00:37:52] Yeah.

[00:37:52] And I don't,

[00:37:54] I agree that they shouldn't necessarily under the premise of simply,

[00:37:58] well,

[00:37:58] they're going to find out one day,

[00:37:59] like be a rush to let them know about all the more difficult things in life.

[00:38:06] So zooming out one layer,

[00:38:08] you go,

[00:38:09] what are you not looking at the specific content of these conversations,

[00:38:14] but to create an environment where it's okay to have these conversations and

[00:38:17] that you have a parent that's willing to listen to tell you that,

[00:38:22] that you know,

[00:38:23] it can be difficult to hear and to go back to your dad,

[00:38:26] to emulate that environment where even if we're fumbling the conversations a bit to go,

[00:38:34] but thank you.

[00:38:35] Thank you for coming to me with these questions,

[00:38:37] because let's always talk about this stuff.

[00:38:39] And they're going to find out things as well as naturally they go on through the

[00:38:42] schoolyard or through news.

[00:38:44] And you want to have those conversations too,

[00:38:46] because you don't know the impact of how that's going to play on them.

[00:38:49] I remember reading a Dolly magazine.

[00:38:52] And someone had written into Dolly doctor.

[00:38:54] And it said that all hairy men should be rounded up and put on an island away from all the women.

[00:39:02] I remember being devastated.

[00:39:05] And then,

[00:39:06] you know,

[00:39:06] in sex ed class,

[00:39:07] we did a thing too,

[00:39:09] where we learned about wet dreams.

[00:39:11] And I remember thinking that would be the most embarrassing thing that could ever happen.

[00:39:16] So I would literally go to bed at night and I would pray that I wouldn't have a wet dream and that I wouldn't get hairy shoulders.

[00:39:25] Because there is no God.

[00:39:27] There is no God.

[00:39:29] Absolutely.

[00:39:29] He must have been busy those nights.

[00:39:31] He was a flat knacker that day.

[00:39:32] He had the Friday off.

[00:39:33] There's so much going on.

[00:39:34] But I remember just the impact.

[00:39:36] Like night after night after night,

[00:39:38] I'd lie in bed.

[00:39:39] Isn't that amazing?

[00:39:40] Because we know our kids are going through this stuff.

[00:39:42] And this is what I think about all the time.

[00:39:43] I'm like,

[00:39:44] you have wonderful parents.

[00:39:46] Your mum's amazing too.

[00:39:48] Yet their boy was going through something that was consuming 95% of his stress.

[00:39:55] 100%.

[00:39:56] And you probably weren't talking to them about it.

[00:39:58] No, not at all.

[00:40:00] No way, no.

[00:40:01] We didn't have those conversations with my mum and dad.

[00:40:03] That's the thing I think we are doing this for is to go,

[00:40:08] we hope that the stuff that we think about and that we pick up creates the environment where if our kids have a stress level of something like that,

[00:40:18] that they feel that they've at least got an ally or someone to share it with.

[00:40:24] Should we get to the three words?

[00:40:26] I'm happy to do threes.

[00:40:26] Let's do this.

[00:40:27] I mean, I know we're almost finishing with it, but can we go-

[00:40:30] Oh, does you normally finish with it or are you kicking off with it?

[00:40:32] No, no, we sort of start with it.

[00:40:33] Oh, so this is still the intro.

[00:40:34] I knew it was going to be a different time to show.

[00:40:36] Baby, I got you.

[00:40:38] Give us your three.

[00:40:39] Okay.

[00:40:40] Number one is nothing is impossible.

[00:40:44] Okay, I like that.

[00:40:45] And you know that's me.

[00:40:46] I think it's stolen from Adidas, but I know that that's-

[00:40:50] It's not an active word slogan, is it?

[00:40:53] Just do it.

[00:40:54] Doesn't matter.

[00:40:54] Just do it.

[00:40:55] Doesn't matter.

[00:40:55] You can still be inspired by it.

[00:40:56] No, no.

[00:40:56] Nothing is impossible.

[00:40:57] Give us an example.

[00:40:58] Nothing is impossible.

[00:40:58] And if you think it is, then let's sit down and work out how we're going to make it possible.

[00:41:02] And what excites you about that?

[00:41:04] I want them believing they can do anything.

[00:41:06] And I truly believe they can.

[00:41:08] I know nothing excites you more as a person than the what if.

[00:41:11] Yep.

[00:41:13] The ultimate.

[00:41:14] Yeah.

[00:41:14] A great website for planning a holiday.

[00:41:17] Oh, sorry.

[00:41:18] Yes.

[00:41:18] It's the unknown.

[00:41:19] And do you know what's even more-

[00:41:20] I know nothing excites you more than delivering client content on Nova FM for what if or stays if they're the client.

[00:41:25] It's also for travel.

[00:41:26] But-

[00:41:27] No, no.

[00:41:27] But-

[00:41:28] Yes.

[00:41:28] But I think a lot of people have a negative what if, which is doom gaming it.

[00:41:33] Like going, oh, no, but what if it goes wrong with this?

[00:41:36] Your big driver is, yeah, but this could be amazing.

[00:41:39] Like to think that I wrote an erotic novel really just for you.

[00:41:44] You did.

[00:41:45] You wrote it because it amused the idea of writing an erotic novel amused you.

[00:41:49] That's another podcast to unpack that.

[00:41:51] I'll do that another time.

[00:41:52] What I love about the long play message of that is dad was always up for the adventure of an idea.

[00:42:03] Yeah.

[00:42:03] And that's one of the things I love about your dadding, about your parenting is you walk the walk.

[00:42:09] You even just things like DIY in the backyard.

[00:42:13] Lot of DIY.

[00:42:14] But life is in the doing and I think you're a great doer.

[00:42:19] Even the excitement of the bird box with the camera in it.

[00:42:23] I mean, we've had three rats.

[00:42:24] There's never been a bird in the bird box.

[00:42:26] It's such a better family story that you had three rats instead of a bird.

[00:42:29] But then we took the rat, we took the footage down to Pet Barn and I said to the lady, you know, I want to buy bird seed but by the way, what's that?

[00:42:36] And it was like a really rare rat.

[00:42:41] It was.

[00:42:42] She said, you hardly ever see those.

[00:42:44] I said, isn't it just a garden rat?

[00:42:46] She went, no, look at the point on the ears.

[00:42:48] So Jack's excitement is, we saw a rare rat.

[00:42:52] Like we captured a rare rat.

[00:42:54] And it's like when we go fishing, you know, we never really catch anything but we put the GoPro down on the bait bucket so that when mum says, did you catch anything?

[00:43:02] Well, he did on film.

[00:43:05] Well, look at these baby grippers.

[00:43:07] But that is what I love about you, Whip.

[00:43:08] That's exciting.

[00:43:08] And that's like such a gift to your kids.

[00:43:10] And that's the best fun about being your mate and having you in life.

[00:43:15] And I think a huge credit to you and something I take a lot of inspiration from is, I mean, there's a lot of different analogies here to use but it's to sum up that idea of going, yes, you could have many swings and a miss but you can't hit the ball if you don't swing.

[00:43:32] A hundred percent.

[00:43:32] And you take swings and you do connect.

[00:43:37] And life is in the doing.

[00:43:39] And you do do shit.

[00:43:40] And it's way funnier to me.

[00:43:42] If you built a bird house and you captured a pigeon on camera, I don't think you'd ever talk about it again.

[00:43:48] No, you wouldn't.

[00:43:49] But you didn't set out to catch a rare rat.

[00:43:52] But it becomes family folklore.

[00:43:55] And when you look to me as someone that values memories as almost the only currency in life that means anything, that's the shit that memories are made of and you don't get them unless you try.

[00:44:08] I write my own quotes sometimes.

[00:44:09] I've got one.

[00:44:10] Give it to me.

[00:44:13] It's not a matter of timing.

[00:44:15] You don't have to look down the camera.

[00:44:17] Is it this one?

[00:44:18] It's not a matter of timing.

[00:44:20] It's a matter of time.

[00:44:23] So your watch has gone off, has it?

[00:44:24] I've got to do something else.

[00:44:25] We're running out of time, aren't we?

[00:44:27] Sorry.

[00:44:28] Sorry.

[00:44:28] Did you miss it?

[00:44:29] Sorry about the alarm.

[00:44:31] If you would count me on.

[00:44:32] Here we go.

[00:44:32] Three, two, one.

[00:44:33] Go for it.

[00:44:34] It's not a matter of timing.

[00:44:36] It's a matter of time.

[00:44:38] So if you do something consistently for long enough, things are going to gravitate to what you're doing and sprinkle it with adventure.

[00:44:49] Well said.

[00:44:50] That's end quote.

[00:44:53] That's all in the quote, by the way.

[00:44:55] The quote finishes with, well said, that's end quote.

[00:44:59] I know exactly what you mean though.

[00:45:00] It's the power of consistency.

[00:45:01] It actually comes back to what you.

[00:45:03] That's a lazy way of saying it, but yeah.

[00:45:05] It's what you come back to talking with your dad about.

[00:45:10] That's why I said it.

[00:45:11] Yeah.

[00:45:12] Okay.

[00:45:12] Give us your second word.

[00:45:13] Empathy.

[00:45:14] We touched on it before.

[00:45:15] Think about how the other person's feeling.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:17] Always go back and go, what would it be like to be them?

[00:45:19] And do you parent with, like parenting with empathy?

[00:45:23] Yeah.

[00:45:23] Do you reckon you ever have to recalibrate that, recorrect that?

[00:45:29] Do you ever find yourself in positions where you're like, okay, I think I'm not connecting here and I might be a lack of understanding?

[00:45:37] No.

[00:45:37] I know you and I have talked about before.

[00:45:39] I think I can brush past.

[00:45:41] I think I can be lazy on that sometimes.

[00:45:43] But I know you and I have shared sometimes a common difficulty.

[00:45:49] And we talked about it a little bit before about, but just meeting the kid where they're at, not where we want them to be.

[00:45:53] Yeah.

[00:45:55] And that.

[00:45:55] Working on that.

[00:45:57] That's a tough one.

[00:45:57] You know I had a little bit of an issue with the kids and AFL.

[00:46:03] I just really struggled to get them, get in there and get the ball.

[00:46:11] Okay.

[00:46:11] Thank you for sharing.

[00:46:12] Get in there.

[00:46:12] Get the ball.

[00:46:14] Yeah.

[00:46:15] And then this year Ted.

[00:46:17] That meant.

[00:46:18] Ted turned around and looked at me and went, shh.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:23] And I went, oh.

[00:46:25] And that's kind of when I knew, just pull back slightly, what you're doing is not working.

[00:46:33] That's not having the impact.

[00:46:35] And I know it's like a classic trope of the parent that gets too excited on the sidelines.

[00:46:40] But I think the reason it hits home is it's really hard to be a kid playing sport, especially if sport's not your natural thing.

[00:46:48] And then you have overlaid on that the parent's expectations as much as we try to not have them.

[00:46:53] And I'm trying to work out how much it means.

[00:46:56] In that case, though, are you reading too much into a Saturday afternoon game?

[00:47:00] A little bit.

[00:47:01] Where are you at now in that little journey of?

[00:47:04] I'm going to have to continue to learn.

[00:47:06] It's not about them.

[00:47:07] It's about me, isn't it?

[00:47:08] So you've brought up a weak point in my personality and trait.

[00:47:11] I wouldn't have come on this podcast if I knew you were going to nitpick a bit or expose.

[00:47:17] It's more exposing, isn't it?

[00:47:18] It's more of holding a mirror.

[00:47:21] Have you ever bribed them at all, like $5 per hardball get or anything?

[00:47:27] I don't break it down that specifically.

[00:47:29] Neither do I.

[00:47:30] Did you go $5 per hardball get?

[00:47:32] Not at all.

[00:47:33] But I've heard of people doing that.

[00:47:35] Interesting, they managed to get a couple more kicks.

[00:47:39] Cheeky little buggers.

[00:47:40] That's interesting.

[00:47:41] You can do it.

[00:47:42] And now, you know, we've got to go past the ATM.

[00:47:46] $600, please don't.

[00:47:51] And you've got to hot down lows.

[00:47:53] Do you know what I mean?

[00:47:54] Yeah.

[00:47:55] You can do it.

[00:47:55] Okay.

[00:47:58] Little scammers.

[00:47:59] They've worked me out.

[00:48:00] Do you want my third one?

[00:48:01] Yeah.

[00:48:03] Obvious one.

[00:48:03] But I'll explain it further.

[00:48:05] Love.

[00:48:06] That's not obvious.

[00:48:07] I mean, it's obvious, but it's simple, but not.

[00:48:10] Not love so much.

[00:48:11] I mean, love for them is a natural thing.

[00:48:14] Yeah.

[00:48:14] Yeah.

[00:48:15] What does love mean to you?

[00:48:17] Love means to me, I'm talking about showing love, is just the constant presence and the

[00:48:23] understanding of where they're at for them, right?

[00:48:26] And all the nice touch points of patting heads and things we say at night and all those

[00:48:30] things.

[00:48:31] But I think it's just as important to demonstrate love.

[00:48:35] So, for Lisa and I.

[00:48:37] So, they see it.

[00:48:38] So, it's become a running joke of me trying to slow dance with Lisa around the dinner table,

[00:48:44] maybe when we were clearing the plates and things like that, and show love to Lisa.

[00:48:48] And I'll go, kids, you know why we're hugging?

[00:48:50] Because we love each other and we're in love.

[00:48:53] So, I think there's probably also some demonstrating of consent that you need to show because I

[00:49:00] don't know that Lisa is.

[00:49:01] No.

[00:49:02] They don't see things like where I might tap her on the bum if she's stacking the dishwasher.

[00:49:05] No, no.

[00:49:05] I just mean, does Lisa want to slow?

[00:49:07] It sort of sounds like she's in the middle of a job and you're trying to slow dance behind

[00:49:10] her.

[00:49:10] My timing's not always right.

[00:49:12] But so, we demonstrate love physically by them seeing us embrace.

[00:49:20] Because I want them to know that that's what it should be.

[00:49:24] I think it was when Joe Brum was on the show.

[00:49:26] You don't need to quote other guests.

[00:49:27] Well, one of his three was emulation.

[00:49:28] Well, when was he?

[00:49:30] Series two?

[00:49:31] He led off series two to great acclaim.

[00:49:33] Yeah, absolutely nailed it.

[00:49:34] Series three is reinforcing some stuff that Joe's done.

[00:49:37] Mate, as one of our supplements for series three, and I do hope you make it into the season.

[00:49:41] Oh.

[00:49:41] We're filming a couple of these fringe ones that we're not quite sure are good enough.

[00:49:45] Oh, okay.

[00:49:45] Bonus track.

[00:49:46] But thank you.

[00:49:47] Thank you for coming as a B-side.

[00:49:49] Are you actually recording?

[00:49:51] We just wanted to teach you my technique.

[00:49:53] Okay.

[00:49:53] No.

[00:49:53] I mean, I loved Joe's.

[00:49:55] Joe's emulation was one of his.

[00:49:57] And that's what you're talking about.

[00:49:59] You want them to see love.

[00:50:01] But how else?

[00:50:02] That's the physical side of love and showing that you and Lisa, you know, romantic love as

[00:50:07] a parental unit.

[00:50:09] Any other ways that spring to mind?

[00:50:11] Any other definitions of love?

[00:50:12] Yeah.

[00:50:14] I have the same thing that I say to each of them every night, which is great.

[00:50:17] And like you talking to Rudy, they're sick of it.

[00:50:21] But I always say, okay, did you know that I love you more than anything in the whole wide

[00:50:25] world?

[00:50:26] Yeah, we know that.

[00:50:27] And then I say, and you're the best part of my day every day.

[00:50:31] So I go from bed to bed saying that.

[00:50:33] Francesca will pull a blanket over her head.

[00:50:36] Jack will say, why do you always tell me this?

[00:50:39] And so I'll say, so you never forget.

[00:50:41] I don't want you to ever forget that.

[00:50:43] And I'm going to say that till the day I die.

[00:50:45] So when they're 30, 40 and old and ugly, and I'm even worse, I'll still be saying that.

[00:50:51] And then Ted will go, you are, you are, you are, as he's answering the question, just to

[00:50:56] move me through it.

[00:50:57] As he tells me that my breath smells like red wine.

[00:51:02] You can say it's sober too.

[00:51:06] But that's kind of how the nightly routine rolls out.

[00:51:09] I do love that.

[00:51:11] And you know what I reckon?

[00:51:11] Another great example of love that I see you give is the sacrifice, the selflessness,

[00:51:20] the time that you invest and the time that you spend.

[00:51:23] And I know you love doing it, but that is, you prioritize them.

[00:51:28] You prioritize them hugely.

[00:51:30] And as we've talked about, with your adventures, with your desire to showcase them, that by

[00:51:37] doing that, they're worthwhile.

[00:51:39] And I think whether it's conscious or not, I think it probably is conscious.

[00:51:43] You've taken your dad's joy at building a family unit that he didn't have, or that

[00:51:49] was taken from him early, your joy at doing that and what you got given as a kid, and you've

[00:51:54] created your modern day version of it.

[00:51:57] Thank you for that.

[00:51:58] Can we talk 36?

[00:51:59] Go for it.

[00:52:00] I want to say thank you for lending your voice.

[00:52:02] You were there at South by Southwest, but from the word go when I said, hey, here's something

[00:52:07] where I think we can make a change.

[00:52:09] Here's somewhere where I think we can do better for our kids.

[00:52:12] Your response was, mate, I'll do anything.

[00:52:14] What do you need?

[00:52:15] What do you want?

[00:52:15] My pleasure.

[00:52:16] So thank you.

[00:52:17] Well, it's been inspiring to watch you, Whip.

[00:52:19] It's, you know, I don't think I ever properly asked you, you know, of all the things out

[00:52:26] there, I mean, and you have put full firepower, full gusto behind this campaign, and it will

[00:52:31] and is about to affect real change.

[00:52:33] What was it that tipped you, that tipped you over into going, okay, I'm going to do something

[00:52:40] about this?

[00:52:40] I think it was, I think it was just the thought of my kids being in an ugly world where I couldn't

[00:52:49] see in.

[00:52:50] And as they do, some kids get to a point where they can't see out.

[00:52:53] And you'd heard, I'd heard so many horror stories.

[00:52:57] And it just kept, I think what, what sort of launched as well was when I started to see

[00:53:02] some change in the States.

[00:53:03] And I thought this is possible.

[00:53:05] Yeah.

[00:53:05] Why as a country are we sitting back thinking, oh God, we need to bow down to this app.

[00:53:10] We need to bow down to this company that's serving up a bad influence on our kids.

[00:53:15] And more and more, now that it's been such a long time, we have the data set to prove

[00:53:19] that it's no good on young minds.

[00:53:22] So, and that was the big driver.

[00:53:26] And it was amazing.

[00:53:28] And it's been so encouraging to see how many people have signed the petition.

[00:53:32] Because all we do is represent them and how many parents are in a similar position.

[00:53:38] And mine are young.

[00:53:39] Our kids are young.

[00:53:39] You know that.

[00:53:40] They're not even young teenagers yet.

[00:53:41] But it's the, it's the, again, and I guess it comes back to your, nothing's impossible.

[00:53:47] Nothing's impossible.

[00:53:47] Comes back to your, what if we had a go at this?

[00:53:49] To look at the two situations to go, okay, well, it has been a bit of a frog in boiling

[00:53:53] water situation with social media.

[00:53:56] Because it sort of started and I was like, oh, I guess this is all right.

[00:53:58] It seems like everyone's doing it.

[00:54:00] Yeah.

[00:54:00] If everyone else is doing it, we're allowed to do it.

[00:54:03] And that's understandable.

[00:54:04] Because that's what 2011, 2012, Instagram came out.

[00:54:08] We're like, oh, it's sort of just funny filters for photographers.

[00:54:10] And everyone else can see your photos and it's, okay.

[00:54:12] So funny.

[00:54:13] And over time, like culturally it changes and whatever.

[00:54:16] I suppose the big kicker is now, here we are sort of 12 years later where you realize,

[00:54:21] oh, okay, on one team there's billions of dollars at stake and the smartest people in

[00:54:28] the world are putting a lot of work into making these things addictive.

[00:54:32] And on the other team is just users and society going, I think it's all right.

[00:54:40] I think it's all right.

[00:54:41] Maybe it's not all right.

[00:54:42] And there's no concerted effort on the other side.

[00:54:44] And I think for you to step up and go, okay, we're going to see what a concerted effort looks

[00:54:48] like.

[00:54:51] And it's not a silver bullet.

[00:54:52] It's not a magic solution.

[00:54:53] But it's beginning to organize society on the other side to go, well, at the very least,

[00:55:01] this shouldn't be unchecked.

[00:55:02] Yeah.

[00:55:03] And, you know, I'm nervous.

[00:55:05] I'm nervous because I feel like what we have at 36 months represents the great fear that

[00:55:14] parents do.

[00:55:15] Like they're motivated parents that are desperate for change.

[00:55:18] It needs to be 16.

[00:55:19] We have to have it at 16.

[00:55:21] I mean, no ifs, no buts, anything under, we're not doing the right thing by our kids.

[00:55:27] So spread the word.

[00:55:29] Consider it spread.

[00:55:31] Hey, I know we've gone to a lot of different places.

[00:55:34] Oh, my gosh.

[00:55:35] A lot of different places.

[00:55:36] What a roller coaster.

[00:55:37] You, I thought it was interesting that you started this conversation, you know, not talking

[00:55:43] about the fact that it's taking you until this year to be proud.

[00:55:46] I think so.

[00:55:47] Of yourself.

[00:55:48] Well, as someone that's known you for two decades and has seen you grow into this man

[00:55:53] and this dad, I think as a mate, I'm extremely proud to know you and I think you should

[00:55:58] listen to that voice.

[00:55:58] You've got every reason to be proud.

[00:56:00] Thank you, buddy.

[00:56:00] I love you, man.

[00:56:01] You're beautiful.

[00:56:02] Sweet kisses.

[00:56:04] Let's go and have pizza.

[00:56:06] Let's do it.

[00:56:10] Hamish is glad that he talked to another dad.

[00:56:13] Now he's going to say some other stuff, but he will be by himself.

[00:56:18] There we have it.

[00:56:19] Beautiful.

[00:56:20] Thank you, Whip.

[00:56:20] Really, you know, some bits, some really moving bits.

[00:56:25] You know, some bits that I'm surprised still made the edit, but lots, lots that we can

[00:56:28] take away there from.

[00:56:29] I love, I do love, and I'll absolutely back up that Whip lives with a nothing's impossible

[00:56:35] attitude, a why not attitude.

[00:56:37] And I rate it.

[00:56:38] I really, I rate it.

[00:56:39] I think that's infectious for kids to be around because, you know, I was talking to a

[00:56:44] friend the other day, like it's, you know, when kids dress up, you know, as like a, like

[00:56:49] for Halloween or whatever, like they're, you know, they're Superman, they're Elsa, they're

[00:56:53] dreaming of being something larger than life.

[00:56:56] And we have that as kids, like we have that, that spirit.

[00:56:58] And over time, you know, unfortunately, naturally, like the world kind of beats it out of us to

[00:57:03] some degree.

[00:57:04] But I love, I love it if we can have that as parents to still cultivate that.

[00:57:10] Why not?

[00:57:10] Why not you?

[00:57:11] Let's absolutely take big swings.

[00:57:14] And have big dreams.

[00:57:15] I love that Whip instills that in these kids.

[00:57:17] It's definitely a great reminder to keep that high up the list of priorities for me as I

[00:57:23] was, as I engage, engage with my own kids.

[00:57:27] Thank you, as always, to everyone for listening.

[00:57:29] We bloody love getting to do this show.

[00:57:31] Whip was correct.

[00:57:32] We went and had a terrific lunch afterwards.

[00:57:34] So thank you for continuing to allow this show to happen by listening to it because,

[00:57:39] man, we, I feel like we get not just food out of it.

[00:57:43] I mean, I don't know why I mentioned the pizza.

[00:57:44] I guess what I'm saying is it's a great, by making it a priority to go and have deep conversations

[00:57:49] with people you really admire and then having lunches with them, I kind of feel like I'm

[00:57:52] the biggest winner out of this show.

[00:57:54] So thank you for listening.

[00:57:55] You're a legend.

[00:57:56] Thanks for all the conversations and feedback that we get through the website.

[00:57:59] We do look at those.

[00:58:00] It means a lot.

[00:58:01] And it's awesome to hear what people are doing and how they're going about it out there.

[00:58:04] That's, it's always super inspiring.

[00:58:06] We'll see you next time.

[00:58:09] How are the dad's dad?

[00:58:12] How are the dad's dad?

[00:58:15] How are the dad's dad is produced by myself and my mate Tim Bartley.

[00:58:19] The theme song is thanks to the incredibly talented Tom Carty.

[00:58:24] You can find him drenched throughout the internet.

[00:58:28] We recorded this particular episode on the lands of the Guttigal people of the Euro Nation

[00:58:32] and we pay our respect to their culture of storytelling that has survived for thousands

[00:58:36] of years.

[00:58:37] If you want to say hi, head to our website, howarethedadsdad.com.

[00:58:41] But most of all, thank you for listening.

[00:58:42] Hamish is a dad who just spoke with a dad and it blew his tiny mind about what he learned.

[00:58:49] So he'll keep on to dads and force them to talk to him so he can find out how are the

[00:58:55] dad's dad.

[00:58:58] Before we go, the organisers of how are the dad's dad, didn't even say producers.

[00:59:05] No, we produced it.

[00:59:06] Look, both of us would like to thank Hertz again.

[00:59:09] Hertz, always there for us whenever we need a car, whenever you need a car.

[00:59:13] To rent, we'd love you to think about Hertz.

[00:59:16] You can get 25% off by going to hertz.com.au forward slash H-O-D-D as in how are the dad's

[00:59:22] dad.

[00:59:23] You get 25% off the base day rate.

[00:59:25] Terms and conditions do apply to that.

[00:59:27] And yeah, this is the same.

[00:59:28] We do the same ad recording at the end of every episode.

[00:59:31] That is true.

[00:59:33] But the reason we do that is because we think it's a great analogy to how consistent

[00:59:39] service you get at Hertz is.

[00:59:40] So we're like, let's do the same ad to represent the same consistent quality.

[00:59:45] Episode to episode, car to car at Hertz.

[00:59:48] Not just because we're looking to save time.

[00:59:49] Absolutely not.

[00:59:50] Couldn't.

[00:59:51] Why would you ever think that?

[00:59:52] Thanks Hertz.