How Rick J Petersen Dads - Survival tips for living a life connected (not Alone)

[00:00:00] G'day everyone, before we begin this very special outdoors expedition themed adventure of How Other Dads Dad. It did involve a road trip and because we were road tripping, boy oh boy, did we need to hire cars and who did we get? We got Hertz. Hertz looked after us and they will look after you if you want to get 25% off the base rate of any car. Just go to Hertz.com.au forward slash H-O-D-D, that's How Other Dads Dad. Terms and conditions apply to that offer.

[00:00:30] Tim and I actually hired two four-wheel drives up in Queensland for this adventure. Great service, can't fault it. And even just to show that you don't have to be the guy from the Hertz billboard to get good service, Tim actually got a much nicer four-wheel drive than mine. Better, better, more modern vehicle. I'm not saying nice saying this, like they were both presented in great condition. You know what I'm saying. I'm just saying they don't favour me just because I'm on the billboard. In fact, I felt like they deliberately favoured Tim.

[00:00:57] So if you'd like to get Tim level service, you know where to go. Let's get into the episode.

[00:01:05] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad.

[00:01:11] So he makes this show where he talks to other dads so he can find out how other dads dad.

[00:01:24] All right. G'day everyone. This was a really special episode of How Other Dads Dad. One of our favourite episodes from last season was going out bush with Bo Miles on the adventure that he planned for us and our kids, for Tim and I and our kids.

[00:01:37] And he brought his daughter along. And look, you know, on the personal side of doing these episodes, a lot of the time we're just like, let's just do some stuff that we feel like doing.

[00:01:47] Because I know, I think the best moments in life come from following your nose like that.

[00:01:53] But we're like, well, we have this thing that we've created.

[00:01:57] And if it can lead to some adventures, like isn't that kind of deep in the DNA of a lot of the stuff we talk about?

[00:02:02] So in the spirit of putting in some effort, going on some adventures, throwing a little bit of caution to the wind and going to the unknown, we knew that the person we wanted to do this is a man who might not be a household name, but certainly will be if you watch the TV show alone.

[00:02:17] Rick Peterson, very long bearded legend from Australian Alone Season 2, which was filmed in New Zealand for people to watch the show.

[00:02:27] Essentially, quick refresher, if you haven't seen the show, you don't need to have seen the show.

[00:02:30] So it's 10 people get dumped in the wild with just some basic items.

[00:02:34] And it's pretty much just see how long you last.

[00:02:37] So for people to watch the show, it very quickly becomes a mental game and how well you can look after yourself.

[00:02:43] And I think really how well you can cultivate a sometimes almost like, well, a ferociously positive attitude or capable attitude out there.

[00:02:53] So Rick, you know, an amazing, an amazing bloke can, you know, use his skills.

[00:02:58] He's an ex-soldier, as we talk about.

[00:03:00] He served in the SAS back in the 90s.

[00:03:03] He's been an expedition leader, worked and has worked heavily in the outdoors since he retired from the military.

[00:03:10] He runs now, his life is running camps, bush skills.

[00:03:13] He's got a huge social media following, essentially looking to take people into nature and use that as a way to reconnect with the outdoors.

[00:03:23] And he does have a particular focus on taking away sons and dads, although that's, you know, that's not what he's limited to.

[00:03:29] And I can tell there's a real hunger in people to go, look, I don't really know what I'm doing in the outdoors.

[00:03:35] But the idea of going with someone that knows what they're doing, that can show us some stuff is appealing.

[00:03:41] And it really was to us too, because just the magic of having a bit of a purpose to it, like we sold it into our kids as like, all right, we're coming on a, you know, we're learning survival skills.

[00:03:51] And man, I mean, A, Rick is a legend and he's a great teacher of not just skills, but also the ethos that you want to have in nature.

[00:03:59] So the kids were mesmerized by that, but even stuff like setting fires, knife skills, just tying ropes, looking after yourself, creating a tidy campsite, how to walk through the bush, how to look at stuff.

[00:04:12] We did a little snake bite course, just an amazing, amazing couple of days.

[00:04:16] And of course, you know, this was in the middle of our kids' school holidays and, you know, it was just Timmy and I taking away the kids.

[00:04:24] And of course, it was like the massive highlight of the school holidays, even though we did fancier, more razzle-dazzle elements of the holidays.

[00:04:31] Of course, just being in the bush, carving spears out of knives, learning about spider bites.

[00:04:37] And of course, it just captivated them and just lots and lots of sitting around the fire.

[00:04:41] So it was with that spirit on sort of day two or three, we sat down and went like, let's do this podcast.

[00:04:46] The kids were terrific.

[00:04:47] They hung out by themselves mostly while we were doing this, but also Rick was smart enough to bring one of his legendary,

[00:04:53] very adult sons along.

[00:04:55] And he took the kids off on like a little adventure while we were doing the podcast.

[00:04:59] So huge thanks to Rick.

[00:05:02] Like this is really full of quiet and thoughtful wisdom.

[00:05:07] Really, I really got a lot from this chat and I'm really grateful and appreciative to Rick of being so open.

[00:05:13] He talks with real courage about his childhood.

[00:05:16] That did tragically involve him being the victim of child sexual abuse too.

[00:05:21] That's a heads up.

[00:05:22] That's in this episode.

[00:05:22] That does come up.

[00:05:24] We'll put some support services at the end of the pod if that's something that has affected you or that you want to have more information of.

[00:05:30] But he talks about his whole, you know, his whole journey, where his ethos came from, how he became a guy that's incredibly good at being still and silent and going deep and connecting with some of the really important stuff in life.

[00:05:44] So, mate, thank you so much.

[00:05:46] It was an absolute joy.

[00:05:48] Let's find out how Rick Peterson dads.

[00:05:58] Are we rolling?

[00:06:00] We are.

[00:06:01] Rick, thanks for having us to the bush.

[00:06:05] Thanks for throwing out the invite.

[00:06:07] I was rather stoked in the green room when that offer came around.

[00:06:10] Well, you are in a much different green room.

[00:06:12] In a lush, a lush green room.

[00:06:14] It is.

[00:06:15] Yeah, a green room with the difference.

[00:06:17] It's a little bit of a tradition for us.

[00:06:19] Once a season, we get out under a tarp on a pretty rainy day, but we've got a break in the weather.

[00:06:24] And first of all, I just want to say, we've been out here now for 24 hours.

[00:06:27] Mate, thank you so much.

[00:06:29] The kids are having the greatest time.

[00:06:31] We're learning stuff.

[00:06:33] It's just been awesome.

[00:06:35] Thank you.

[00:06:36] I think Bo might have softened them up a little bit, so that was handy.

[00:06:39] He put them through a selection course, if you like, and then when they turn up to me, they've already battle-hardened.

[00:06:45] That's true.

[00:06:45] I mean, last year's adventure with Bo Miles was freezing.

[00:06:49] And we've had some rain today.

[00:06:51] We've had a few moments where the rain's pinned us down a bit, but just to see you and your element out here with the kids, it's very, very special.

[00:07:02] And I don't know, they're enthralled.

[00:07:04] They're enthralled with everything that you're telling them.

[00:07:08] Tim and I, and I know a lot of parents listening to this, we're sitting here going, again, the same sort of thing we had last year when we went out with Bo was like, there's no screens.

[00:07:18] There's no, I mean, we've replaced screens with knives and fire, but in a safe way.

[00:07:23] And cotton wool.

[00:07:24] And cotton wool in a safe way.

[00:07:25] But it's really beautiful to see.

[00:07:28] And look, I know you run this a lot.

[00:07:31] Like, you do run these, you know, days and camps and adventures a lot with, is it predominantly fathers and sons?

[00:07:39] I suppose in my heart of hearts, that was the angle I really wanted to focus on.

[00:07:44] And no doubt we'll go into my background a bit, but that's really probably what makes my heart sing, is seeing fathers connect with their sons and having that strong relationship that you sort of feel that it's going to be intergenerational.

[00:07:58] After that father's gone, that son will absolutely remember that quality time he spent with his son.

[00:08:02] And hopefully, with me starting this process off, when they leave me, I love it when they get a little video clip or something they send through and go, oh, here's the son.

[00:08:13] He's just made up a bow and spindle kit and we've been working at it.

[00:08:15] We're getting smoked.

[00:08:16] We haven't quite got it yet.

[00:08:17] But just following on from it, not just, oh, yeah, that was a great weekend leaving at that.

[00:08:21] It's like I wanted to be the footsteps after that that happened so that when the father is, you know, a grandfather and he sees his own sons doing the same things, you know, and making the kids, you know, not just resilient in the outdoors, but it's a lot more than that.

[00:08:36] It's about the getting them to love the outdoors and have a real connection with it and then wanting to protect it.

[00:08:42] And, you know, there's enough places on the planet now that really do need our help to protect.

[00:08:46] And unless the kids spend that time out there, ideally with family, then it's probably not going to happen.

[00:08:52] Well, I think, I mean, there's a lot, yeah, there's a lot that I want to unpack.

[00:08:56] And before we do, I think it is worth noting, and I guess we'll talk about it a lot in this chat, is on one hand, you could go, well, you could replace the outdoors for any number of skills that you learn together.

[00:09:08] And it's the bonding time, but there really is something unique about the fact that it's a bit primal, it's outdoors, it's survival.

[00:09:16] It's not the same as doing a cooking class together, which I'm sure is fun to, or like, you know, learning ballroom dancing or whatever.

[00:09:23] Like those are great skills to learn, no doubt, but there's something unique about the fact that it's the outdoors.

[00:09:29] And I mean, is it that it's primal, that it's, we've been doing it for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years?

[00:09:35] Is that what draws us to it?

[00:09:36] I probably hadn't looked at it like that, but when you think, when you reconnect something that has been ancestral, if you like, I think it comes back easier.

[00:09:46] And through no fault of our own, I mean, we would have to go back to our grandfathers or great-grandfathers, you know,

[00:09:53] and they would have been setting snares and traps for possums and rabbits in the years of the Depression.

[00:09:57] And that became just a way of life.

[00:09:59] It wasn't like, that's what we do, you know, or anything like that.

[00:10:01] It's just, well, if you want to eat, you've got to put food on the table.

[00:10:05] And through the moving forward, when life does become easier, and nobody's complaining, we like an easy life,

[00:10:13] but that being able to go out and not be regulating the temperature by turning it up and down like we do in our homes or our cars and fans and opening and closing windows and things.

[00:10:24] Because out here, you have to work with nature.

[00:10:26] And it shouldn't be that it's hard work.

[00:10:28] It should just be that you just roll with it to a degree.

[00:10:30] And that element of being uncomfortable, there's nothing wrong with being wet and damp and cold and things like that.

[00:10:37] It's like, be sensible about it.

[00:10:39] I don't want people getting hypothermic.

[00:10:40] Be sensible about it.

[00:10:41] But elements of uncomfortable is good.

[00:10:44] It's missing in our society.

[00:10:45] I couldn't agree more.

[00:10:47] And I think that's what people chase coming out here.

[00:10:49] And I think that's what we've loved doing, even, you know, for a little while, just with our littler kids.

[00:10:55] You're uncomfortable together.

[00:10:56] You're cold together.

[00:10:57] But you, yeah, you're in it together.

[00:11:00] And that is such a strong bond that you're able to get by being, going through these, you know, age-appropriate hardships

[00:11:07] and at the same time learning these skills and, you know, their eyes have completely lit up.

[00:11:13] So, you know, thank you so much.

[00:11:14] That puts us in the present.

[00:11:16] But I do now want to go into your story.

[00:11:19] I know your dad's stats because we've got one of your sons out here with us.

[00:11:23] But let's hear him anyway.

[00:11:24] How many kids have you got, ages, et cetera?

[00:11:27] I've got the two sons, Arnhem and Tasman.

[00:11:30] Arnhem gets his name from Arnhem Land.

[00:11:33] I'm not saying he was conceived there, but he could have been.

[00:11:35] We were out there at that time.

[00:11:37] So, Arnhem and...

[00:11:38] And then, of course, on the spirit of Tasmania.

[00:11:42] Is that where Tasman got his name?

[00:11:43] No, no.

[00:11:44] My dad was a lighthouse keeper on Tasman Island.

[00:11:47] Oh, wow.

[00:11:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:48] So, the first five years of my life was on a little remote island off the southeast coast of Tasmania.

[00:11:55] 300-meter high sea cliffs all the way around it.

[00:11:57] And dad was a lighthouse keeper.

[00:11:58] Do you remember much of it?

[00:12:01] It's one of those ones where you think, do I remember a photograph, an old black-and-white photo

[00:12:05] that I may have seen of me in the chook pen or something like that?

[00:12:09] Or was that partly a memory?

[00:12:11] I know there is a photo of it.

[00:12:12] It made a pretty wild place to grow up as a kid.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:15] It would have been hard for mum and dad.

[00:12:19] Mum, equally, a job of a lighthouse keeper, making sure that light's maintained is incredibly important.

[00:12:25] And that mum looking after six kids, when she would be freaking out, when we would have storms,

[00:12:31] she would tell us her memories of being inside the house for three days with the doors and windows locked

[00:12:37] because she was just scared that one kid would get blown off the island.

[00:12:40] And we were only 20 meters from the edge of one of the drops.

[00:12:43] What would have been a 40-meter drop?

[00:12:45] Easy to...

[00:12:47] Yeah.

[00:12:47] Oh, my God.

[00:12:47] It really puts it in perspective.

[00:12:49] I mean, Tim and I were in the tent before for one hour entertaining the kids with, you know,

[00:12:52] and dance contests.

[00:12:54] But...

[00:12:54] Did you win?

[00:12:55] We let them win.

[00:12:57] But being 20 meters...

[00:13:00] Yeah, being in the house for three days to not let your kids fall off a cliff.

[00:13:03] Yeah.

[00:13:04] Oh, my God.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:04] So that was the beginnings.

[00:13:06] And then I know that from that point, from what I've read about you, you went in...

[00:13:13] You know, things obviously didn't end well on the island there and you went into state care

[00:13:18] when you were about six years old?

[00:13:20] Yeah.

[00:13:21] So we left the island and Dad got a job in a tin mine, I think it was, and was working underground.

[00:13:27] And he was a hard man.

[00:13:30] The life that he lived...

[00:13:31] He was probably a heavy drinker too.

[00:13:33] I think that was a big part of what I remember was probably the heavy drinking.

[00:13:39] But, yeah, I think that's when the wheels fell off the family cart, so to speak.

[00:13:44] And I was pretty young and I don't...

[00:13:46] I remember a lot of the disturbances and things like that and the simple foods that we ate.

[00:13:52] Like, I remember at one stage it would have been when the wheels were falling off, I guess.

[00:13:57] Like, bread and mortar with sugar on it type thing.

[00:14:00] And it's like, that seemed like a luxury thing that I used to like years later.

[00:14:04] I'm going, where'd that come from?

[00:14:05] And it's like, I know where it came from.

[00:14:07] Because that was the subsistence sort of food that we would probably have when there wasn't

[00:14:12] much money to go around and maybe Dad had already done the bolt at that stage and left the family.

[00:14:17] I do remember the day left.

[00:14:18] I remember...

[00:14:19] I don't have a lot of memories, but I remember the day he drove out and I was in tears

[00:14:23] and I was sort of going, oh, he's coming back.

[00:14:25] And I think my sister said, Rick, he's not coming back.

[00:14:29] Dad's left.

[00:14:29] I'm going, no, no, he's coming back.

[00:14:31] And about half an hour later, he pulled back in and I goes, yeah, he's back.

[00:14:34] But he was picking up the two greyhounds and he'd gone again.

[00:14:36] Oh, mate.

[00:14:37] I think now there's a lot of questions I would have loved to have asked him.

[00:14:40] With a leading one, I guess, being, how could you have walked out on mum with six kids?

[00:14:45] Yeah.

[00:14:45] Hard question.

[00:14:47] I don't know why I didn't ask it.

[00:14:48] I don't know.

[00:14:49] Because you're a kid and you're hurt.

[00:14:50] Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:51] It must have been so shattering, so painful.

[00:14:56] Yeah.

[00:14:56] And to have all the kids, we all become wards of the state.

[00:14:59] The two twins stayed together.

[00:15:00] They were my two younger twins.

[00:15:02] Mum, very thankful they stayed together.

[00:15:06] Mate, the confusion that you must have had as a kid, like it doesn't...

[00:15:10] It's impossible.

[00:15:10] There's no way around it for a kid to rationalise why that's happened.

[00:15:15] I mean, it's even painful to hear it.

[00:15:18] It must be still painful to have lived it and to carry it.

[00:15:22] I suppose, you know, without wanting to make too many assumptions here, is that why running

[00:15:28] courses for fathers and sons is the thing that lights you up?

[00:15:32] You know, because it's that connection.

[00:15:33] You're able to create a bond that wasn't there for you and you're able to foster that

[00:15:39] in other people.

[00:15:40] Yeah, I suppose there's a lot of driving points to it and here I am.

[00:15:44] I'm a couple of months away from being 60 and I know there's aspects of my life that I've

[00:15:51] dealt with that probably only some of the closest members of my family would know the full story

[00:15:56] of it.

[00:15:57] I have some relatives now that do know some of the inner truths, but during that time of

[00:16:04] being wards of the state, there were, how would we put it, of the six siblings, the three

[00:16:12] of us were interfered with.

[00:16:14] Oh, mate.

[00:16:15] And that shouldn't have happened.

[00:16:18] And I just think the more I can help fathers connect with their sons and build that bond,

[00:16:26] especially of the ages where they're likely to wander off or start to, you know, associate

[00:16:31] with the wrong groups and start going down that path.

[00:16:34] And it's like, yeah, the detrimental damage in the future.

[00:16:39] I'd love to have young boys just grow up being resilient young boys, turning into good men.

[00:16:45] But even at a young age, just to respect their sisters, respect their mums and respect people

[00:16:51] in general and just grow up knowing that they're a young protector at a young age, you know.

[00:16:56] And then being respectful.

[00:16:58] And we all make mistakes and that during life and there's things I look back on and think

[00:17:03] I could have dealt with that relationship better type thing.

[00:17:06] But I think as we mature, we look at things differently and hopefully we learn from our

[00:17:11] mistakes or learn from different things, you know.

[00:17:13] So, yeah, looking back through life, there's a lot to be learned.

[00:17:17] I mean, I'm so sorry that you went through that.

[00:17:21] You know, I see you here with your son.

[00:17:24] I see you here with Arnum and you go, okay, well, what a phenomenal breaking of the cycle

[00:17:29] that clearly is.

[00:17:30] You know, you've got, he's an unreal guy.

[00:17:33] He's beautiful.

[00:17:34] He's off with five of our kids at the moment leading a wood hunt to go and raid an old fort

[00:17:40] that you built or old shelter that you built and for another time you're out here.

[00:17:44] But I go, all right, so you guys clearly have a beautiful relationship and you're really

[00:17:49] close and you've given him what you never had.

[00:17:53] How does that feel?

[00:17:55] I see it as, well, it's, yeah, it's warming to look back and think, yeah, yeah, that's

[00:18:01] what I wanted to achieve.

[00:18:03] But yeah, that, I suppose that sort of profound drop that most dads have when children come

[00:18:10] along, it's like, okay, there's a lot of responsibility here.

[00:18:13] What sort of dad am I going to be?

[00:18:14] And whilst it's not easy to sit down, I remember sitting down on a piece of paper and trying

[00:18:18] to think what sort of dad do I want to be?

[00:18:20] And I couldn't get pen to paper almost.

[00:18:23] But then I thought, well, the contrast and clarity, what sort of dad do you not want to

[00:18:27] be?

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:28] And then I almost ran out of ink.

[00:18:30] You know, just like, it flowed.

[00:18:32] You know, I was like, I don't remember, you know, wrestling with my dad.

[00:18:36] I don't remember fishing with him.

[00:18:37] I don't remember kicking a footy with him.

[00:18:40] Yeah.

[00:18:41] And I think that's, to varying degrees, we do talk about it.

[00:18:46] It comes up, you're either emulating a perfect example or you're trying to avoid the inverse.

[00:18:51] But the tricky thing about knowing what not to do is you still don't have a solid what

[00:18:56] to do.

[00:18:57] Yeah.

[00:18:57] And to some extent, and it's different for everyone's situation, but you have to make

[00:19:02] it up as you go along.

[00:19:03] And you've clearly found so many things along the way that have fostered a, you know, not

[00:19:11] only raised two great young men, but have great relationships with them and their mum.

[00:19:16] Did it seem to come easily or was it, were there, you know, many pitfalls along the way?

[00:19:21] I don't think anybody gets out of it, you know, without looking back at some aspects and

[00:19:28] going, I could have dealt with that better.

[00:19:30] I mean, obviously a big part of us was 11 and a half years of the military sort of

[00:19:34] thing and eight and a half of that with the SAS regiment.

[00:19:37] So when you hear the sort of term controlled aggression, that gets used a lot in the military.

[00:19:42] But there's not really that de-escalation of how that works when you enter into, back into

[00:19:47] civilian life.

[00:19:48] And I remember, I think Neryl might've been, yeah, I think she was at work and I was looking

[00:19:56] after the kids and something happened.

[00:19:58] I remember Arnhem doing something wrong and whether or not he caught me off guard or whatever,

[00:20:03] I ended up slapping his backside with my hand.

[00:20:05] And I'm thinking that was too hard.

[00:20:07] That was way too hard.

[00:20:09] That was me that knew he needed to work now.

[00:20:11] It wasn't my son for what he'd done.

[00:20:13] Yeah, right.

[00:20:13] That was my doing.

[00:20:15] And that really, really pulled me up.

[00:20:17] And then I come up with a concept that the boys joke about a bit at the time.

[00:20:21] It was called the talking log.

[00:20:23] And it was basically just a log in the bush somewhere about 15 minutes from where we lived.

[00:20:28] And it was just my time to have a think about how I want to deal with it.

[00:20:32] Jeez.

[00:20:32] Jeez.

[00:20:32] And so that was me walking into the bush, sitting down on a log and saying, mate, and

[00:20:38] I sort of made it seem like it was a bit more about him, but it was probably more about

[00:20:41] me.

[00:20:42] And just saying, mate, I just wanted to sit there.

[00:20:44] And in one occasion, I think he might've spat at Neryl.

[00:20:47] And what, five-year-old?

[00:20:48] Probably doesn't at some stage.

[00:20:51] And instead of me losing the call, I could feel I was getting agitated by it.

[00:20:55] You know, I'm big on respect in that area.

[00:20:58] And yeah, I took him for the walk and sort of, you know, sit down and say, come on.

[00:21:01] I want you to have a little bit of a think about what it is that you've done that, you

[00:21:05] know, dad and mum are not happy with, you know.

[00:21:07] And then we'll have a bit of a talk about it.

[00:21:09] We'll think about maybe what you could have done instead of that.

[00:21:13] And then, you know, after this, maybe you can apologise to mum and explain.

[00:21:20] So for you, it was about introducing a high level of communication from an early age.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:28] Yeah.

[00:21:28] And I think that communication is definitely flowed on.

[00:21:34] I think both the boys would definitely say that.

[00:21:35] It's like, I don't really care what you've done.

[00:21:39] If you've been out at a party or something like that and things have gone pear-shaped and

[00:21:43] something's happened that you're not proud of, give me a call.

[00:21:47] Let's get your home.

[00:21:48] Let's get your home safe or whatever.

[00:21:49] And then we can have a chat about it later.

[00:21:51] But has that eventuated?

[00:21:53] Has that been?

[00:21:54] Yeah, different times.

[00:21:56] Nothing too major, but.

[00:21:59] All right.

[00:22:00] So that's a little bit of, you know, that's a very layered framework contextually of where

[00:22:05] you've come from as a dad.

[00:22:08] One thing that, as you know, I ask everyone, you know, is it possible to boil down into three

[00:22:13] words, three concepts, what your fathering philosophy you reckon has been across the journey?

[00:22:22] Now, it can mean a lot of different things to different people, but what does that mean

[00:22:25] to you?

[00:22:26] Yeah.

[00:22:26] So the first one is trust.

[00:22:30] Trust crosses different boundaries.

[00:22:32] I suppose if I look at the relationship with my wife as well, that's always been trust

[00:22:36] there.

[00:22:37] And that's worked perfectly.

[00:22:38] And we're coming up to 30 years of marriage and I love her more now than I ever did.

[00:22:42] It's just such an awesome relationship really is.

[00:22:45] So trust transfers through the relationship of myself and Neryl, but also into my boys.

[00:22:51] It's like, there's nothing you can't talk to me about.

[00:22:52] And we can have open conversations about, you know, drug usage, any sort of things, you

[00:22:56] know, sexuality.

[00:22:58] There's nothing off limits to talk to my boys about.

[00:23:01] And that's hard.

[00:23:02] Building trust.

[00:23:03] Yeah, I was going to say, building trust is a very intricate beast.

[00:23:08] You know, what things do you feel help or have helped build trust between you guys as

[00:23:15] they've grown up?

[00:23:16] Probably flowing into the second word of respect, I think, is just how would I want to be treated?

[00:23:22] Looking at the trust piece in terms of them trusting that if they came to you with something

[00:23:27] that you would listen and be a welcome, you know, be a safe place for them.

[00:23:33] I suppose trust is about being a safe place.

[00:23:36] Because if you're a kid and you go to your parents and they've told you to come to them

[00:23:42] and tell you something and then they yell at you, you're never doing it again because

[00:23:46] it's not safe.

[00:23:46] So was that an important part of it for you with the kids growing up to, I suppose, reinforce

[00:23:54] that idea of trust and when they came to you with something that it was okay?

[00:23:59] Yeah, I think the boys would even remember the conversation and I think I would use the

[00:24:03] analogy of like, if you're going to use my knees when they're young, teenagers or whatever,

[00:24:07] if you're going to use my tools in the shed or a power tool or something like that, if

[00:24:11] you break it, that shit happens, you know.

[00:24:13] It's like, it's all cool.

[00:24:14] Just come and let me know.

[00:24:16] But if I find it broken later on, I'll be disappointed, you know.

[00:24:20] But if you break it, my voice is not going to change from what it is now.

[00:24:23] I just probably ask her, you know, how did it happen type thing if you've, you know,

[00:24:27] owned up to it and said, oh, look, Dad, I broke this.

[00:24:29] It's like, okay, right.

[00:24:31] Maybe, how were you holding it?

[00:24:32] Like, okay, right.

[00:24:33] Maybe if you do it this way, that won't work, you know.

[00:24:36] Ideally, I guess that's how I'd like to deal with things.

[00:24:39] There would have been no doubt where there's been other times where, and they have, you

[00:24:43] know, where I might have come into the house and, you know, the house might have been

[00:24:46] a mess and I've maybe blamed the boys or whatever and then I find out later.

[00:24:50] Oh, no, no.

[00:24:51] They might have pulled some boxes out and that was happening.

[00:24:54] But I've just assumed, had a go at them.

[00:24:57] And then I suppose another element of respect is, okay, that needs addressing and there

[00:25:03] needs to be an apology.

[00:25:04] And it might not be right there, but it might be.

[00:25:07] No, I don't think it's wrong with apologizing late.

[00:25:09] If it's the next day, it probably indicates to them that you've actually been sitting on

[00:25:12] it for a while, that, you know.

[00:25:14] Are you talking about you apologizing to them?

[00:25:15] Yeah, that's right.

[00:25:16] Yeah.

[00:25:17] Yeah.

[00:25:17] To say that yesterday, guys, you know, when I came in, you might remember I probably growled

[00:25:24] at you about the mess that was in the lounge room.

[00:25:26] I maybe was carrying something in from my day that might have been just stirring with

[00:25:30] me and you are my, like a bottle, a shaken up bottle of Coke, you know.

[00:25:34] And you don't know how much somebody's been shaken up, you know.

[00:25:37] And so it's like, try to leave that at the door when you go in, you know, ground yourself.

[00:25:41] And for the few people talk about that analogy, you know, trying to leave your work behind.

[00:25:45] If you've got a high stress job, don't carry it through the doors.

[00:25:48] Go for a walk at the beach for half an hour or whatever before you've got to go home.

[00:25:50] If you have to, go home and be present for your family when you get home.

[00:25:54] I mean, it is something that we've talked about.

[00:25:56] And it comes up, I think, for dads, there's that horrible feeling after you know you've

[00:26:01] reacted poorly where you go, God, that was all me and that wasn't them.

[00:26:06] And I think that idea of apologizing, and I agree, it sends the message that, guys, I'm

[00:26:11] not perfect and I think about this.

[00:26:14] I want to improve just as much as I'm trying to help you guys grow up to be better people.

[00:26:19] Because I also think it models to them that we are, it's a responsibility of us as good

[00:26:24] humans to be trying to improve ourselves.

[00:26:28] And part of that is sending the message, you know, implicitly by going, you know, we're

[00:26:34] not, I'm not perfect and we're not, you know, I talk about all the time with kids, like

[00:26:39] the last thing you want to do is preach or lecture or whatever.

[00:26:43] The language I land on with the kids is like, well, you know, I have more experience.

[00:26:47] I'm here to help guide you.

[00:26:49] I'm here to help teach you.

[00:26:50] I'm not here to tell you what to do.

[00:26:52] And that's what we are as mum and dad.

[00:26:53] We're teachers.

[00:26:54] We're teachers to help teach you about the way the world works.

[00:26:56] But we don't know, we're certainly not invincible.

[00:26:59] We're doing it on the fly.

[00:27:00] And we're also learning.

[00:27:01] And I think that's always, I always try and bring that back to my kids because you

[00:27:05] just don't want them rolling their eyes being like, okay, you guys know everything.

[00:27:08] Yeah.

[00:27:08] And, you know, it's also for their confidence too.

[00:27:11] You want them to know it's okay to not know everything.

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:14] My boys would remember the concept of rolling eyes.

[00:27:17] It's something that'll fire me up pretty quick.

[00:27:19] Yeah.

[00:27:20] So it's not one I like.

[00:27:21] So my boys don't do it.

[00:27:24] I don't know.

[00:27:25] I wouldn't say they feared me because I was in the end.

[00:27:27] Like when I left the army, I made a deliberate effort to civilianize myself.

[00:27:32] And that to me was important.

[00:27:33] Well, you mentioned before you were coming out of an environment and this would apply

[00:27:36] to different people in different ways, but certainly coming out of the militaries,

[00:27:39] as you said, before you're coming out of an environment where controlled aggression was

[00:27:42] a giant professional advantage into a world where it was not as much of a professional

[00:27:47] advantage.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] How hard was that to make that change?

[00:27:52] I guess this is, it's what you pull from the past that can be positive or negative.

[00:27:57] One side of it, because I had a lot to do with, you know, bushcraft and survival and things

[00:28:01] like that.

[00:28:02] Like, especially after my time in the regiment, obviously you do survival in the regiment,

[00:28:05] but as a survival instructor with North Horse and things, a lot of those skills are perfect

[00:28:11] and they segue into being able to go out bush and camp with your boys and pass on skills

[00:28:15] that they're not going to get in any way other than that, you know.

[00:28:18] And so they used to see me sort of rubbing sticks together and lighting fire and they'd

[00:28:21] go, oh, dad, you know, didn't roll the eyes, but they'd go, oh, dad, why don't

[00:28:25] you just use it like a gaslighter like everyone else or whatever?

[00:28:27] They'd go, oh, when you get a bit older, mate, you might appreciate it.

[00:28:30] But these days they go, oh, yeah, how do you, you know.

[00:28:32] Yeah.

[00:28:33] They really appreciate the fact that you can light fires in multiple ways and be at one

[00:28:39] with the environment.

[00:28:40] And I'm big on that, as I say, you know, it's about working with nature and not exploiting

[00:28:46] it.

[00:28:46] And I don't like cutting down stuff unnecessarily and things like that, but working with it.

[00:28:50] Well, one thing we, you know, we mentioned earlier, one of our campfire chats earlier

[00:28:55] on this trip was you were talking about special forces and essentially at, you know, one of

[00:29:02] the aspects that's sort of heavily weighted above a lot of the others is problem solving

[00:29:09] within a group.

[00:29:10] You know, saying, you know, that that's the sort of person that excels in that environment,

[00:29:14] someone that can problem solve within a group.

[00:29:17] But how much of that do you then take into family life to go, you know, is there a crossover

[00:29:21] there to go, a lot of family life I find is problem solving within a group.

[00:29:26] And did it have a positive spill over that element?

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:31] I often feel I'd be a better father than, well, I am still a father, but I often feel

[00:29:36] I'd be a better father now than what I was when I was doing the fathering of the younger

[00:29:40] kids sort of thing.

[00:29:41] I tend to feel I'm sort of folded into like an eldership role now, especially in the community

[00:29:47] type thing.

[00:29:48] I, you know, I like the idea of being seen more as an elder to compassion and wisdom.

[00:29:53] And with that comes that element of empathy and understanding, which I suppose empathy is

[00:29:58] the third word, you know, there'd be definitely the trust, the respect and empathy.

[00:30:03] It'd be the third being, being able to just listen a bit more.

[00:30:07] Is that something you wish you could, you know, go back and talk to your younger self and give

[00:30:13] it to them?

[00:30:13] But I, I enjoy the transition, I suppose now of feeling that I do, that I listen more

[00:30:18] now.

[00:30:20] That became more obvious, I think, like coming off the back of alone.

[00:30:24] That was when you got a lot of time to sit and think.

[00:30:26] Um, community became a, a big, a big why.

[00:30:31] It's like an amazing community around the Sunshine Coast and extended area that I really respect

[00:30:36] having them.

[00:30:37] And I, I like the idea of being able to, to listen to their needs.

[00:30:41] And if I help them achieve what it is they want by having this elder figure around who can

[00:30:46] share these skills and things, then I get what I want.

[00:30:49] And I get to see a whole generation of younger kids growing up with respect for the bush.

[00:30:56] And yeah.

[00:30:57] That's a beautiful thing.

[00:30:58] Yeah.

[00:30:59] It is a beautiful thing.

[00:31:00] Why do you reckon when we're younger dads, are we less inclined to listen?

[00:31:04] Cause I would say as you get older, I would say that's a, not an uncommon thing perhaps

[00:31:09] for older dads or dads with, you know, older kids to go, geez, when I was young, you know,

[00:31:16] like we, we do learn to listen as we get older.

[00:31:20] Yeah.

[00:31:20] Like, is it, is it the stage of life?

[00:31:22] Are we rushing around?

[00:31:23] Like, what do you put it down to?

[00:31:25] I think a lot of it comes up and it gets said that it's almost like an overstatement where

[00:31:30] people talk about it takes a village to raise a show.

[00:31:32] I heard Eddie Betts talking about that and I'm going to relate to you in what you say,

[00:31:37] but often as you would appreciate, there's probably things I've shared on this weekend

[00:31:41] that you know, yeah, that's exactly what I tell my kids, but you think they'll listen.

[00:31:44] And it's because they're hearing from somebody else and that's what a village can do.

[00:31:49] And traditionally in indigenous culture, you know, they will, it won't be the actual father.

[00:31:54] It'll often be in charge of discipline.

[00:31:56] It'll be in the equivalent of a grandfather and he'll take the younger ones away, the teenagers

[00:32:01] when it's time for them to learn some of the things that they need to learn about, you

[00:32:05] know, courage and skills and things like that.

[00:32:08] He will do that because he'll, he'll separate himself from the discipline act of it, if you

[00:32:13] like, and not feel that I'm the father of the child and I'm the one that's got to punish

[00:32:17] him.

[00:32:17] It's like, it might be the older that's a better one to do it.

[00:32:21] Yeah.

[00:32:21] That's interesting because you can automatically you sense that that relationship they would

[00:32:25] have just less emotional.

[00:32:27] Of course, like a grandpa's going to be very emotionally attached to their grandson, but

[00:32:32] not in the same way that a father is and not have as much riding on it and maybe give

[00:32:36] them a little more space and that, that, that energy is needed.

[00:32:41] Basically, I feel like any time that I listen more, I'm a better dad.

[00:32:45] Like that's a, that is, that is the sum of it, isn't it?

[00:32:48] It's a pretty simple solve.

[00:32:50] I've never come out, I've never gone to bed at night going, God, I listened too much

[00:32:55] today.

[00:32:55] I didn't say enough.

[00:32:57] It's the same in relationships.

[00:32:58] It's true.

[00:32:58] Very much the same.

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:33:00] Being able to listen and, and, and technology can make it hard.

[00:33:03] You can be on your phone and your partner or your son say something and it's like, I

[00:33:08] heard what you said.

[00:33:09] I was hearing, but I didn't listen, you know, like looking, but not seeing sort of thing.

[00:33:13] It's being more present is, is a key to a better relationship.

[00:33:17] With, with, with the empathy component, is it something that you always had?

[00:33:21] Is it something you worked on to try and have more empathy toward to have empathy with the

[00:33:26] kids and to meet them at their level?

[00:33:28] Were there ever challenges in that?

[00:33:31] I wouldn't, I definitely wouldn't say I've always been empathetic.

[00:33:34] In fact, I look, I look back at some of my, even in my early regiment days, there's a,

[00:33:38] there's a side to me in, in, in those years that I'm, I'm glad I've left behind.

[00:33:41] No, there might be an element of, an element of arrogance, you know, you know, you know,

[00:33:47] opinionated in a lot of ways, but out of, out of allowing empathy in your life, I feel

[00:33:53] you do think, okay, let's, let's just look at it from their point of view.

[00:33:57] And it's a little bit like, you know, we've all gone through the, you know, the shopping

[00:34:00] centre and you get the, you know, I'll be the girl at the checkout and you think, no,

[00:34:04] please, no, thank you.

[00:34:05] And you're just quite, quite abrupt.

[00:34:06] And it's like, you know, she might've just lost, lost her dog that morning and called

[00:34:11] up the boss and the boss said, well, no staff, you're going to come into work.

[00:34:15] And it's like, you don't know what's happening in their world and it can happen in traffic.

[00:34:19] And we're all, you know, pretty quick to, you know, stick the finger up or have a go at

[00:34:23] a person or something like that in the traffic, but you don't quite know why they're speeding

[00:34:27] past you.

[00:34:28] Just, just try to say it from other people's point of view before you, before you fire up.

[00:34:32] Not always easy.

[00:34:33] No doubt.

[00:34:34] And, and I, I firmly agree.

[00:34:37] And I, and again, it comes back to what we often talk about, which is the ability to,

[00:34:42] I suppose, part of empathy to me as well as the ability to put aside how we wanted things

[00:34:46] to go and to, to, to be, be present with how they are.

[00:34:53] And that's often happens.

[00:34:54] I think with the kids when I'm, when I'm, when I feel a bit of friction, it's because

[00:34:58] it's butting up against how I had imagined something would go.

[00:35:04] And, and I've reckon oftentimes it's empathy that unlocks the ability to get back into the,

[00:35:10] you know, back into the, them looking at you with a kind gaze with like a, yes, that's

[00:35:15] what I needed you to be.

[00:35:16] I needed you to be someone that listened, not someone telling me why it's wrong or why

[00:35:21] I should do it a different way.

[00:35:22] And trying to find that right vibration, as I call it, to be able to come back and have

[00:35:27] the chat about it.

[00:35:27] That's why sometimes that 24 hours later or 48 hours later, when you think, yeah, they're

[00:35:32] in a good mood and I'm feeling pretty good at the moment too.

[00:35:35] I'm just going to, I don't know, grab a drink and we're going to go over and we'll go and

[00:35:40] grab an ice cream and we'll have a chat about that thing the other day because we're on

[00:35:43] the same level and they're, they'll, they'll absorb what it is I'm saying in a meaningful

[00:35:48] way.

[00:35:48] You do it at the wrong vibration and you could, you could flare it up again almost.

[00:35:53] Can I throw something out there too?

[00:35:54] I think rushing is the enemy of that.

[00:35:56] And I think that's why what we've been feeling out here for the past 24 hours, the specialness,

[00:36:01] what you get to feel a lot as you take different groups into the bush, you remove a lot of the

[00:36:06] rushing.

[00:36:07] We're always doing things out here, but we're not, there's no rush.

[00:36:10] And at home, in home life, like we find the trap all the time.

[00:36:14] It's like, get to the next thing.

[00:36:16] We've got an appointment.

[00:36:17] If we don't do the dishes now and we're not going to get dinner ready and then it's

[00:36:21] bed, then it's bath, then you've got soccer practice in the morning.

[00:36:24] Okay.

[00:36:24] It's just an urgency that I wish sometimes I'm not great at managing.

[00:36:29] And I think like the ADD-ness of being online all the time doesn't help because we always

[00:36:34] have this idea that we can like, ah, if we, you know, oh, I saw this thing online.

[00:36:39] And like, if you do that, that was full of life hacks.

[00:36:42] So we're like, ah, if you do that, that quickly, that solves this.

[00:36:44] And like, we always want it to be fixed right away.

[00:36:46] Yeah.

[00:36:46] And I think that the kids pick, kids pick up on that.

[00:36:49] And you, I feel like we spend way less time just being probably at more of the pace that

[00:36:55] kids need us to be at to just slowly step through things.

[00:36:58] And I really noticed it today.

[00:37:01] We're even just doing this little fire starting class, you know, and you're teaching the

[00:37:06] kids how to start fire with a little ferro rod.

[00:37:08] Yeah.

[00:37:09] And because we had nothing else to do, there was successes, there was frustrations, there

[00:37:14] was failures, there was someone else got it, someone didn't.

[00:37:17] And because, but I could easily see that in an, if we had a jam packed schedule today where

[00:37:22] it's like, okay, we've only got 10 minutes for this and then we're moving on to the next

[00:37:24] thing.

[00:37:25] Yeah.

[00:37:25] You kind of, you'd end that with a few people upset or shitty or the takeaway from that

[00:37:30] would be like, oh, I didn't like that.

[00:37:33] I couldn't get it.

[00:37:33] But, but you, I just noticed you gently given everyone space, a few kind words of encouragement,

[00:37:38] a little bit of like, yeah, it's tricky.

[00:37:40] You got to practice it a bit.

[00:37:41] And, but there's no, the kids were just allowed to be.

[00:37:45] And then by the end, everyone had got it.

[00:37:47] Everyone's stoked and they walk away with that being a great memory.

[00:37:50] So I think even just observing that little interaction, one of my lessons was like the

[00:37:56] pacing, the timing, and that's kind of what being at here must allow you a lot of things

[00:38:00] can unfold.

[00:38:01] Yeah.

[00:38:01] I think that comes out even like if I'm running a women's group or a blokes event,

[00:38:07] um, or the father and son one, it's one of the bits of feedback that does come out

[00:38:12] quite often.

[00:38:12] It's like, we covered a lot of things, but we never felt rushed.

[00:38:16] There was always time for me to have a conversation with that other dad or, you know, or the women

[00:38:22] to say, oh, we still had plenty of time to chat and that type of thing.

[00:38:25] And you just had a way of segueing a conversation that we were having into the next thing that

[00:38:29] we were doing.

[00:38:30] Because I'd never want to take away the connection part of what I do.

[00:38:34] And in fact, I, I sometimes think that maybe people feel because of my background of the

[00:38:40] SAS or whatever, they might think, oh, you're probably going to run it like a bootcamp.

[00:38:43] And it's like, I welcome all dads of regardless of your school level.

[00:38:48] And look, there's a lot of dads out there, you know, their profession does, does not have

[00:38:51] anything to do with, you know, water, shelter, fire, food, communication, rescue, stars, knots,

[00:38:56] it's yeah.

[00:38:57] Any of that, it's just not part of their world, but it's part of mine.

[00:39:01] And if you want to, in a relaxed manner, come and be a part of that and just whatever we

[00:39:06] get to cover on the weekend, we get to cover, but there's always opportunities for laughs

[00:39:11] and jokes and, you know, things around the campfire and.

[00:39:14] And I couldn't agree more because, you know, we're out here experiencing the pace and the

[00:39:19] wonder and the magic of it and letting the kids, you know, their eyes light up at very,

[00:39:24] very simple but beautiful things.

[00:39:28] Like, you know, this morning we had a giant orb spider crawling all over you and me and

[00:39:34] the kids, but we were talking about fear and we're talking about the spiders and everyone,

[00:39:39] you know, we learned a lot about, you know, it was just a beautiful moment.

[00:39:42] It's just a great example of going, the kids will never forget the morning they spent in

[00:39:47] the bush with a giant spider crawling on them.

[00:39:49] And I guess that's a segue to other things, isn't it, about fear?

[00:39:53] And it's like the job interviews I sort of mentioned, you know, that analogy is like there's

[00:39:57] so much about being in the bush and the survival aspects that segue perfectly into day-to-day

[00:40:03] life.

[00:40:03] I agree.

[00:40:04] Like, this is not something that you only need to if you wish to be a park ranger or a...

[00:40:08] No, that's right.

[00:40:08] Not at all.

[00:40:09] No.

[00:40:09] For the rest of your life.

[00:40:10] It's just stuff that they'll never forget.

[00:40:12] I mean, because you run, I'm fascinated too with the dynamic you see in the father-son

[00:40:18] camps.

[00:40:19] I mean, whether it's for two or three or four, however many days it is, what would you say

[00:40:25] is the common disconnect or maybe wall between teenage sons and their dads if they get to the

[00:40:33] point where they're coming away here?

[00:40:34] Is it a lack of communication?

[00:40:36] Is it that they're struggling to get on the same page as each other?

[00:40:39] Or is it different for everyone?

[00:40:41] I think it's a combination.

[00:40:43] Like, I'd say that it's normally the mums that are the ones that contact me.

[00:40:47] And in some cases, they might say, yeah, look, I think it'd be really great for my husband

[00:40:51] and my son.

[00:40:52] And I'll, I suppose, some way get to ask or segue into like, oh, how is their relationship

[00:40:58] sort of thing.

[00:40:59] And I'm not a relationship guidance counselor or anything like that, but you can sort of

[00:41:03] see what works, you know?

[00:41:05] And if I get to chat to the dad, sometimes she'll be the one who go, yeah, hopefully

[00:41:10] you can do something with my son.

[00:41:12] It's just he's this thing and he's that and he's that.

[00:41:14] And I'm thinking, okay, I sort of see where the work might actually be needed and it might

[00:41:17] not be with the son, you know?

[00:41:20] And it might be that, you know, you hear that you might ask the son a question and you're

[00:41:25] starting to talk and the dad will just cut him off and come over the top with something

[00:41:28] else.

[00:41:28] And you think, yeah, that's, that's interesting.

[00:41:32] And, and around a campfire, the campfire has a way of bringing out honesty, but it also

[00:41:37] has a way of slowing the pace of life down.

[00:41:40] And there's nothing wrong with, with kids being bored.

[00:41:42] And if it means they're just sitting, sitting by a fire, just poking it with a stick, you

[00:41:46] know, and that type of thing, it's good.

[00:41:48] It's good to be out here and not have everything happening all the time.

[00:41:52] It's interesting.

[00:41:53] Like when we have, when we have people that have been teachers or are teachers on the,

[00:41:57] on the, on the podcast, sometimes I'm like, okay, well you, you see a lot of kids, so

[00:42:01] you'd see a lot of patterns.

[00:42:03] You know, you, you see a lot of dads, you see a lot of, you know, relationships that dads

[00:42:07] have with their kids.

[00:42:10] And again, I'm, I'm, I know every case is different, but is there, are there takeaways

[00:42:16] that you, you know, you could easily distill, you know, if you could just sort of wave a

[00:42:21] magic wand and go, Hey, I reckon you, if you could just give most dads out there a

[00:42:26] splash more of this or a splash more of that, what is it you wish you could just, you know,

[00:42:30] impart to the majority of dads that might help make things a little smoother?

[00:42:34] Yeah.

[00:42:35] I guess a lot of it is allow, having the dads allow their boys to be themselves and not

[00:42:43] try to steer them too much.

[00:42:45] That's a great one.

[00:42:46] I mean, there might be times where you second guess it.

[00:42:49] I mean, especially in this technology world, we're giving some, some teenagers could well

[00:42:55] be spending a lot of time on technology.

[00:42:56] And it's not to say that there's not careers in that path.

[00:42:59] There is, even in the gaming sector.

[00:43:01] It's not to say that there's, there's not gamers out there making a fortune.

[00:43:04] There are.

[00:43:05] But knowing, I mean, yeah, Tim and I were even talking about this earlier today, that

[00:43:09] knowing that line between going, no, I am going to step in here and, and say something

[00:43:14] or no, I'm just going to let, I've got to, I've got to realise that you're you and, and

[00:43:19] I'm, I'm here to watch you run your course.

[00:43:23] To a fair, yeah, certainly to a fair degree.

[00:43:26] I mean, that's how Arnham got into his videography and both the boys actually, I suppose, was, I

[00:43:31] suppose us allowing them to move that path.

[00:43:34] I had the wish that they both went to year 12 just to break the cycle of me leaving at

[00:43:38] 14 years old.

[00:43:39] And I mean, I left and started working in a native plant nursery in Tassie and that was

[00:43:44] probably my saviour where I really had a passion for, you know, botany and things which flowed

[00:43:50] obviously through the military and bush tucker and all that sort of stuff.

[00:43:53] But when Arnham was applying for his first job, covering a nightclub gig and a DJ that he

[00:44:00] wanted to go and see, he just applied on social media and I would have been recommending,

[00:44:05] oh, you know, put a resume together and go and, you know, drop it at the door.

[00:44:07] I mean, it's like once they get to a certain age, it's up to them, up to us to listen

[00:44:13] to them a bit too.

[00:44:14] I like that.

[00:44:14] And build on the ideas that they might have and go, okay, right.

[00:44:19] Then how do you see that working?

[00:44:21] I love that.

[00:44:22] And maybe add some things to it that might be, I suppose, you know, in a positive context

[00:44:28] of what they're saying to say that that could work.

[00:44:31] What about we try that?

[00:44:32] I find that even, you know, even with my boys 10 and my boys 7, I find that just so much

[00:44:38] more exactly what you're saying.

[00:44:40] The times where I can remind myself to be, again, you know, like the Sherpa rather than

[00:44:47] the guide.

[00:44:48] Just to be like, great, you know, where's your heart going and how could I be on that journey

[00:44:55] still with you, but I'm not the boss of the journey?

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:59] It's, I think that's a very, that's a very useful piece of wisdom that probably applies

[00:45:05] at many ages into varying degrees, doesn't it?

[00:45:09] Yeah.

[00:45:10] Yeah.

[00:45:10] If they've got something that they're interested in or an idea they've got, yeah, nurture it

[00:45:15] a bit and see where it takes them.

[00:45:17] And if they make the mistakes, it's like, hey, it's not really a mistake.

[00:45:21] You just, you know, you're learning so much more from it.

[00:45:25] Nothing wrong with them.

[00:45:26] That's it.

[00:45:26] We grow up in a world where a lot of people feel that they don't want to make mistakes,

[00:45:30] but you're missing out on so much by not giving things a crack, you know?

[00:45:33] Totally.

[00:45:33] As they say, just don't be the best, be the best at being better.

[00:45:36] Yeah.

[00:45:37] Like, just, that's all you've got to worry about.

[00:45:39] I do like that a lot.

[00:45:41] I like that a lot.

[00:45:41] I mean, and just the final point on that note, I suppose when you run father-son workshops,

[00:45:49] the whole goal, as well as a bit of knowledge acquisition and things like that, but the

[00:45:52] whole goal is to create a closer bond through that shared experience.

[00:45:57] And I suppose that's really what we're talking about, isn't it?

[00:46:00] Yeah.

[00:46:00] What lowers the resistance and what warms relations between parents and children.

[00:46:06] Because I guess that's where your three things come from.

[00:46:08] That's where respect happens, it's where trust happens, it's where empathy occurs.

[00:46:13] And I think every dad would leave the planet as a much happier dad, knowing that something

[00:46:19] that he's got to share with his son, that will be special to the son, that he used to

[00:46:25] come long after we're gone, that'll be getting shared again.

[00:46:28] And the conversations around the campfire that happened years ago with my dad, who's

[00:46:32] not with us anymore, I get to spend that special time with him.

[00:46:36] And they, yeah, that'll stay with him forever as an experience, as opposed to a material

[00:46:42] thing that they may have given him.

[00:46:44] That can be sentimental, but there's nothing like that shared experience of spending time

[00:46:48] in such a neutral environment, special environment like being outdoors in the wilderness.

[00:46:54] Yeah.

[00:46:54] I will take, they'll absolutely take that away from this.

[00:46:56] There's nothing like a shared experience.

[00:46:58] It's something that's very dear to my heart.

[00:46:59] And I think it, I think it really resonates as you say, like it's, you just got to be

[00:47:04] there doing it side by side.

[00:47:07] And, you know, with the, with the, with that right spirit, not forcing it, allowing things

[00:47:12] to happen.

[00:47:12] Just being you.

[00:47:13] Just being you, letting them be them.

[00:47:14] Boughts and all.

[00:47:16] And you've got a great memory.

[00:47:17] You've got a great memory locked away.

[00:47:19] And I think another beautiful thing too is if you've got fathers and sons out here, it

[00:47:23] really doesn't matter if the dad knows much at all.

[00:47:25] It's actually good for the teenager to see the dad taking on skills and, and going, oh,

[00:47:30] you're going to have to show me that bowline again.

[00:47:32] I'll keep mucking it up.

[00:47:33] That's cool.

[00:47:34] The teenager is now seeing his dad work at something that he's not finding natural.

[00:47:38] Yeah.

[00:47:38] It's all right for them to.

[00:47:40] Totally.

[00:47:40] Show the son that it's like, man, I'm struggling with this one.

[00:47:43] Or even letting them see you out of your comfort zone and how you respond to that,

[00:47:48] I think is a, is a beautiful thing.

[00:47:50] Yeah.

[00:47:50] And that element of, uh, as a parent, I suppose, practice what you preach.

[00:47:54] Well, I always encourage our kids to try something new, you know, give it a go.

[00:47:58] You won't know until you give it a go.

[00:47:59] And it's like, how often do we do that in front of our kids?

[00:48:01] Take on something that we don't know how to do.

[00:48:04] It's like, yeah, let's try it.

[00:48:06] Totally.

[00:48:07] Um, for me, it's putting up a tent.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:11] I thought it was the Taj Mahal.

[00:48:14] I do have quite a nice tent.

[00:48:16] Yeah.

[00:48:17] You do.

[00:48:17] I mean.

[00:48:18] Flashiest one I've ever seen.

[00:48:19] I'm literally looking at that Rick's set up and it is just a tarp between two trees

[00:48:23] and a little mosquito net.

[00:48:25] And then ours is a 10 person.

[00:48:29] And you're out here.

[00:48:30] That's the main thing.

[00:48:31] Yeah.

[00:48:31] No.

[00:48:32] Um, can I ask a quick question about your, you mean your kids growing up?

[00:48:37] How often were they out bush?

[00:48:39] Cause, cause I've, we're out here with your son.

[00:48:42] I mean, I feel like that was their whole childhood.

[00:48:45] They would have been out here camping and doing things like this, but was it frequent?

[00:48:49] Was it not as much?

[00:48:51] A little bit of both.

[00:48:52] I think when we look back at some of the home footage, we're driving around Australia

[00:48:56] and camping out under the stars and all sorts of stuff.

[00:48:58] We've done, we've done a lot of bush time and off the top of my head, I think, oh, probably

[00:49:02] not that much.

[00:49:03] But when I look back, there was actually quite a bit.

[00:49:05] You know, I know when they go out camping with their mates, they just, they're baffled

[00:49:08] that their mates can't get a fire going.

[00:49:10] They're going, hey guys, guys, there's something basic you're missing here.

[00:49:14] You got to start off with small twigs and work your way up.

[00:49:16] Oh, that's beautiful.

[00:49:17] Do they ever, you know, talk to you about some of the, more of the outdoor lessons they

[00:49:21] learned that have applied more in life?

[00:49:22] Or do you just see it?

[00:49:24] Do you just see the problem solving?

[00:49:26] I probably see it more so.

[00:49:26] Yeah.

[00:49:27] Yeah.

[00:49:27] It's not cool for them to share it with me.

[00:49:29] That's the thing too.

[00:49:30] You got to remember that as parents, I suppose, like we do all this stuff and we know why we're

[00:49:34] doing it.

[00:49:35] And we are hoping that it's having the knock on effect.

[00:49:38] Yeah.

[00:49:39] But we also know that we, you can't hold out hope for them to ever come back and draw a

[00:49:44] line between A to B to C and say thanks for that.

[00:49:46] But they actually do it a lot more now.

[00:49:48] It's surprisingly, um, I'm going to open, open up a lot more now about how, and not

[00:49:55] just about the skills they've learned, but just an appreciation for our relationship between

[00:50:00] myself and Neryl.

[00:50:02] You got so many people I know that don't have a dad that they can approach to talk about

[00:50:07] it.

[00:50:07] So some of my mates' mates or my boys' mates will say, Hey, can I have a chat to your dad

[00:50:13] on them about something?

[00:50:14] I'll just, I'll just.

[00:50:15] Wow.

[00:50:15] So you're that role.

[00:50:16] You're that person now for your science mates.

[00:50:18] And I guess our house is always open to that too.

[00:50:20] If we've got a spare room and they need to come and stop for a couple of days because

[00:50:23] things aren't going well in their world or a couple of weeks or a couple of months

[00:50:26] as it has been in some cases.

[00:50:28] Absolutely.

[00:50:29] Yeah.

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:30] It all comes back.

[00:50:32] Mate.

[00:50:32] Well, that's what a legendary thing that you're, you know, as you say, you're giving

[00:50:36] your community, Rick.

[00:50:38] I mean, and I love, I got to say, Rick, I mean, hearing your story and hearing what

[00:50:42] you went through and where you came from and what your relationship with your dad was

[00:50:47] like, like, I think it is really beautiful what you're able to give other dads and other

[00:50:52] mums, but I know that's your main jam is other dads.

[00:50:58] The space, the space to do the thing that, you know, that you didn't have.

[00:51:05] Well, I suppose a lot of credit have to go out to my amazing wife for her understanding

[00:51:12] my background as a kid and what I've been through and to know that.

[00:51:17] I mean, people often say, you know, if you could go back and change things, would you?

[00:51:22] And it's easy to sort of jump to conclusions and say, oh, of course you would.

[00:51:25] But it's like, no, I like who I am now.

[00:51:27] And those, I suppose, hardships, if you want to call them that, as a childhood has sculpted

[00:51:36] me into being able to do the contrast and clarity and be who I am.

[00:51:39] And to have my wife of 30 years just supporting me the whole way through and being on the same

[00:51:46] line when it comes to raising your kids.

[00:51:48] Yeah.

[00:51:49] So, to all the dads out there, you know, love your partners, stick with them and work

[00:51:53] together.

[00:51:55] That's, I hear you.

[00:51:56] I hear you.

[00:51:57] I do want to ask something, and this might be a very clumsy way to ask it, but you're a

[00:52:05] very measured and tranquil person.

[00:52:09] But with the things that have happened to you in your past, there would be an, if you

[00:52:17] happen to be an extremely angry person, there would be quite a clear line that you could

[00:52:23] draw between the past and that.

[00:52:26] I suppose the clunky question I'm trying to ask is, has anger ever been a problem?

[00:52:33] Has it risen up?

[00:52:34] Or how has it not?

[00:52:36] How have you not let that become a part of your life?

[00:52:42] I wouldn't say that it was an easy process.

[00:52:46] I was very confused, not understanding what was happening in my world, not knowing who to

[00:52:55] talk to or even what to say.

[00:52:58] I had a lot of anger there.

[00:53:00] I was in fights constantly at school, and I would say my way of venting the anger was to

[00:53:06] be in fights.

[00:53:08] That doesn't solve anything, but it was my coping mechanism then.

[00:53:12] I joined the military, I guess, to be away from that environment and have good solid men

[00:53:17] around me.

[00:53:19] And then I guess there would have been an element of me not discussing anything with anyone,

[00:53:24] even through those years.

[00:53:25] It was probably only when I met an error that I was able to, skeletons in a closet, I suppose,

[00:53:31] talk about my upbringing, because I figure if we're going to be together for a while,

[00:53:34] you need to know me, warts and all.

[00:53:37] Ended up doing a fair bit of NLP and looking at things through that mindset, I suppose.

[00:53:45] Yeah.

[00:53:46] And for the most part, a big influence on my life, of my love of nature and the wilderness

[00:53:53] and things like that.

[00:53:54] It still sits with me, it does.

[00:53:57] To say it doesn't, I'd be lying.

[00:53:59] But carrying hatred or anything like that through your life is just like having a poison in you

[00:54:06] that you've got to live with.

[00:54:08] And it's like, I don't want that there.

[00:54:10] It serves no purpose, so no.

[00:54:13] No, for not.

[00:54:14] To the opposite.

[00:54:15] For not.

[00:54:16] And having my sister Tanya, I've lost two sisters, but having my sister Tanya and my

[00:54:25] two younger brothers, Brett and Perry as twins, they're 50-odd now, but they've all been

[00:54:31] out on these events and they come and assist when they can.

[00:54:34] And yeah, we're all close as siblings and that's a huge benefit after everything we've

[00:54:43] been through and we know what went down to know that we're all rock solid.

[00:54:47] And we'll get back to Tasman Island again.

[00:54:50] Jeez, you've certainly come a long way.

[00:54:52] You've certainly come a long way since the island.

[00:54:55] Rick, mate, as I said, from coming from the place you came to not just break a cycle,

[00:55:03] but to invent such a beautiful and positive new one for your family and then the people

[00:55:09] that are lucky enough to come away with you, mate.

[00:55:13] It's really awesome.

[00:55:15] It's really beautiful.

[00:55:16] Thank you.

[00:55:17] Thanks, mate, Bennett.

[00:55:18] Absolute privilege having you come along and open your world up to me.

[00:55:25] Thank you, mate.

[00:55:26] Love it.

[00:55:27] Thank you.

[00:55:36] I mean, pretty perfect day, to be honest.

[00:55:38] It was such a deep and wholly kind of fascinating talk with Rick.

[00:55:44] And we were, you know, Tim and I were just like, we just sat there in silence for a long

[00:55:47] time.

[00:55:47] And then we're like, Rick, we could probably just listen to you talk for hours and hours

[00:55:50] on end.

[00:55:51] So, you know, the fact that we had that conversation, but they were also in the bush and it's kind

[00:55:55] of like golden hour and the light was dappling through, you know, it was a really special

[00:56:00] afternoon for Rick to be so honest, so vulnerable.

[00:56:03] It sort of took our breath away.

[00:56:05] So I think though, for me, and I'm sure everyone listening to this, you're like, what an amazing

[00:56:11] example.

[00:56:12] And we've had a little bit of it throughout the journey of how the dad said, of going,

[00:56:18] all right, well, I'm going to change the cycle.

[00:56:21] I'm going to take the thing that wasn't there for me and I'm going to put all my effort into

[00:56:26] creating it for not just my own kids and my own family, but I'm going to create it

[00:56:32] for other people and other families too.

[00:56:34] So just bloody inspiring.

[00:56:36] Beautiful relationship with his kids.

[00:56:37] Clearly a beautiful relationship with his wife, Neryl.

[00:56:39] Well, we were, Tim and I were testament to the fact of the power of like just getting

[00:56:43] out into nature, like, you know, multiplied if you're with somebody like Rick, we keep,

[00:56:48] we're just like, man, that was only three days of the year, but it's definitely something

[00:56:51] that stuck with us a long time.

[00:56:52] Like I said, if there's, if it's something you're interested in doing and if specifically

[00:56:56] you would like to do it with Rick, I know that it's possible.

[00:56:59] And I know if you go to rickjpeterson.com and then you can get in touch with the great

[00:57:04] man himself.

[00:57:05] If, as I mentioned at Start 2, you or anyone you know has been affected by

[00:57:09] child sexual abuse.

[00:57:10] We said we'd list some services.

[00:57:12] You can go to bravehearts.org.au.

[00:57:15] That's an organisation that's dedicated to preventing and treating victims of child sexual

[00:57:19] abuse.

[00:57:20] It also offers counselling and education.

[00:57:22] That's bravehearts.org.au.

[00:57:24] You can also go to childsafety.gov.au.

[00:57:26] There's a wide range of support services there.

[00:57:28] Thank you for listening.

[00:57:30] Thanks again to Rick for being an absolute total legend.

[00:57:32] We still have quite a few hand-carved spears in the house that we were able to bring back

[00:57:36] in our packs from Queensland into New South Wales.

[00:57:39] Didn't get stopped at the border.

[00:57:41] So whether it is with Rick or whoever else it is, whether it's an adventure big or small,

[00:57:45] hopefully this has had a little impact on you and you've got the bug to just make the

[00:57:51] space to get out there and see what magic takes hold.

[00:57:55] Because as we often say, you know, it's always just the little things become the big things.

[00:57:59] Thanks so much for listening.

[00:58:00] Thank you so much, Stu, for being able to have gotten in contact with us too.

[00:58:02] We bloody love the correspondence.

[00:58:05] We really appreciate it.

[00:58:06] That's at howotherdadsdad.com if you ever feel like dropping us a line.

[00:58:10] Beautiful.

[00:58:11] Until next time.

[00:58:11] We'll see you then.

[00:58:12] How are the dad's dad?

[00:58:15] How are the dad's dad?

[00:58:18] Haim is busy recording Lego Masters today, so sorry you're stuck with me doing the credits.

[00:58:24] How are the dad's dad is produced by myself, Tim, and my trusty assistant, Hamish Blake.

[00:58:29] The theme music is by the wonderful and very funny Tom Carty.

[00:58:33] We recorded this special episode with Rick on the lands of the Carby Carby people in southern

[00:58:38] Queensland, and we pay respect to their continuous and deep connection with their land and water.

[00:58:43] If you want to get in touch, go to howotherdadsdad.com.

[00:58:46] But most of all, thanks for tuning in.

[00:58:48] We really appreciate it.

[00:58:49] Hey, Mish is a dad who just spoke with a dad, and it blew his tiny mind about what he learned.

[00:58:55] So he'll keep running dads and forcing them to talk to him so he can find out howotherdadsdad.com.

[00:59:05] Before we go, the organisers of How Are The Dad's Dad didn't even say producers.

[00:59:11] No, we produced it.

[00:59:12] Look, both of us would like to thank Hertz again.

[00:59:15] Again, Hertz, always there for us whenever we need a car, whenever you need a car to rent.

[00:59:21] We'd love you to think about Hertz.

[00:59:22] You can get 25% off by going to hertz.com.au forward slash H-O-D-D, as in howotherdadsdad.

[00:59:29] You get 25% off the base day rate.

[00:59:31] Terms and conditions do apply to that.

[00:59:33] And yeah, this is the same.

[00:59:35] We do the same ad recording at the end of every episode.

[00:59:38] That is true.

[00:59:39] But the reason we do that is because we think it's a great analogy to how consistent service you get at Hertz is.

[00:59:47] So we're like, let's do the same ad to represent the same consistent quality, episode to episode, car to car at Hertz.

[00:59:54] Not just because we're looking to save time.

[00:59:56] Absolutely not.

[00:59:57] Couldn't.

[00:59:57] Why would you ever think that?

[00:59:59] Thanks, Hertz.

[01:00:00] Thanks, Hertz.

[01:00:01] Thanks, Hertz.

[01:00:03] Thanks, Hertz.