How Santo Cilauro Dads - Provide Consistency, Variation… Oh, and strap yourself in!

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Get everyone, welcome to another episode of How Other Dads Dads as is tradition here at the show we like to stop

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Take a moment, take a knee and thank herds for their ongoing and passionate support of How Other Dads Dad

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I don't know how I'm going to do this passion at the port. They've been with us for a couple years there are only sponsor

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean then they don't ask me to say it's passionate support so I'm sort of unadding passion to their support of the show

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But I like to think of this passion at support, it feels like passionate support so in return we passionately support them back

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to hire a car simply go to herds.com.au

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[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get on with the show thanks for it

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Take a moment, you can find out how Other Dads Dads Dads Dads Dads Dads Dads

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, today's episode is a cracker as we again revisit the number of the working dog comedy team

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Santa Chararo, our little lessons of the show all know that season 1 episode 1 was Rob Sitch

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, you know, one of Santos' collaborators, long time buddies and co-creators of many

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: look to be honest, many of the greatest pieces of comedy from the Australian landscape.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, whether it's all the way back to the LHO with the D-Gin, of course, the Castle,

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the movie which comes up again in this chat, but I am always happy to revisit Castle stories.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's true to all the modern-day stuff like thank God you're here and whether it's

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: heavy-been-pay attention or the panel back in the day.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I'm always really super grateful when I get to have these conversations because those

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: guys, as we've talked about before, started out as my comedy heroes, but then from getting

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to be a fan of their professional work to getting to be a fan of how they carry themselves

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: as people, that would be, you know, I would think a key reason why I was interested to talk to

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: he's just a lovely, lovely block. And one of the things I was interested about was

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: many, many years ago, I was bringing up in this chat. I remember you're talking about having kids

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and again, it was one of the people that made an impact on me before I had kids, you know,

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you're looking at these older guys and I'm sure everyone has them in their life where you go,

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: all right, that's how this guy's doing it and wonder how old go when I get there. So, it feels

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: like a kind of a personly, like a bit of a nice full circle thing to come back to that. He speaks

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: really beautifully in this chat about he's Italian heritage, how they had a multi-generational approach

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: to parenting that he experienced growing up. The big role that he's grandpa played in,

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: bringing him up and shaping him, I think it's a really, it's a really beautiful take on parenting.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I will stop the solo part of this right now and get to the actual bit with the guest, please enjoy

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: our sound to chill out dance.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Sento, I'm so stoked to have you here. Thank you so much for doing this, mate.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a pleasure. I'm really looking forward to doing it. I'm looking forward to

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: actually learning about my own parenting by actually having a conversation with you.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We're on it, we're on it to witness and to hear the live del,

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: bombing the depths. Let's start with your statistics as a dad. How many children do you have?

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I presume I'm probably at the upper reaches of the echelons here in your dad.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just around 26 and one who's about to turn 24.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I feel like I've gone through all the different phases.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because that's what I was as a younger dad.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I look at it and go, you'd feel like you're out of the woods at that stage.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But from doing this show, I know that you never really feel like it's the old age.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You're never stopping a parent at all. Do you remember something that you sort of

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: did as a much younger dad and how your parenting style has changed? As they've gone,

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I've tried to go with the flow as much as I can. I always knew right from the start

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: that there were no rules and the things would change from year to year sometimes from

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to month. I've never had a preconception about anything when I was young.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think even though that is an admirable trait to have,

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of us look at follow-and-go right off God, I have a plan.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And then a lot of it is learning that you can't really have a plan that you have to be flexible.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I love how much is that you don't know my own childhood,

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: there was no plan ever in my own upbringing.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell us, tell us, how old is your upbringing like?

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess I should tell you that only because I can't talk to you about my own parenting

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: until I shared light about how I was parented or I guess in my case was grandparentsed.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm very close to my parents. I still am to this day, my dad's an only former

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: mum's ad, there's not a day that goes by without me, especially with my dad talking about the

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_01]: soccer or all that kind of stuff. We're very close but as a parent he wasn't.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He was very, very happy for my grandparents to look after me.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: For practical reasons, I guess when you're a migrant you have to work a lot when you come out

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to Australia. So both mum and dad full-time working and what do you do? You don't have enough money

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: for an annual anything so you get handed out to your grandparents. Which was a wonderful thing but a

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty crazy thing as well. And is that where the no plan came into it? Did it feel like it was?

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't understand how much of a no plan I had that was, you know, the stowed upon me.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Until I saw a little notebook that I had it must have been a grade three, no book or something.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It was maths. I think they were trying to teach us the basics of graphs. So in x-axis and a y-axis.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember the bottom axis was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. That was the

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: end of the month. And the vertical axis was 6 p.m., 7 p.m., 8 p.m., 9 p.m., 10 p.m., I think it was 11 p.m.,

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: so it was your first introduction to ratings?

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it was like 1.8 million masterpieces.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: What was the graph I was like? The graph was you had to write down what time you went to bed every night

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and see what the graph looked like. So Monday night was like 10 p.m.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Tuesday night was like 11 p.m., Wednesday night didn't fit on the graph, it actually didn't fit on the

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: graph and Thursday was 6 p.m. Because I had a crash.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you remember? I mean, not on those specific nights. But what would be an example of

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: the reasons you were up and like had to take care of it?

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to play cards with your uncle and aunt and you were so good. And you just go and

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you just stay awake till you could. You'd fall asleep and you know, those beautiful moments

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: of your dad carrying you in the car or all that kind of stuff.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So no rules at all, zero rules, none whatsoever, spoiled like anything like,

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: we're really, oh yeah my mom would bring me, you know, when I was at Union, I was still living at home.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: She was coming in for breakfast every morning. It was outrageous. That's totally outrageous.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And my dad completely blind faith in me. Like you wouldn't believe.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: He, my dad had to, he had a Lord of Greedy when he was in Italy. But when he came out here,

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: he had to work in the factories and everything. But he said, I surely I need to, you know,

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a lawyer. So he went back to Melbourne, uni, he only got his degree. You know, when I was

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: still, you know, doing primary school, it's certainly his lap while he's to study. Anyway, so

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: he got, he had a solicitor's office in Brunswick. Everything that's in the castle, Dennis De Nudor

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: later. Well, my dad still says to me to this day, he says, you know, in the castle,

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of the stuff that happened to Dennis De Nudor also happened to me. But so weird.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And so weird, how can they have to ask the guys that wrote it?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually, we actually shot the outside. We were going to shoot at Eddie's office in

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Sinner Road Brunswick. And but the thing is that there was a shadow because opposite there's the

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Don Bosco's boys home and, and there was a shadow on the window. So I literally had to go

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: two doors up and knock on the door of Rocky the pharmacist who had the similar kind of building.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And we put all the stickers, the Dennis De Nudor stickers there and did it there. Anyway, so

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: what was that saying about that? So you said he got that. Oh, my dad, but my dad used to run this

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: office, right? And I used to just work for him. I used to do all these work, all these

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: convincing. As a, as a 12 year old kid, I'd go to, I'd go to, I'd go to, to actual, you know,

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: settlements, to the legal settlements that I'd roll up and represent my dad. That's a, I love

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and on Saturday mornings, every now and again, I'm not coming. You know, it's a very money,

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you look after the office. So as a kid, I would look after the office and this is what would happen.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: This is when the Brunswick market still existed in full flood. Everybody knew that I'd be looking

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: after the office at, uh, on a Saturday. So I was the weakling. So there'd be people rolling up,

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, I look, I can't afford to pay you the idea, but he's a big sack of cherries. And you,

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: right, you know, Dominic from the market. He can't be just, he couldn't pay, but look at his cherries.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It literally jack in the beans. Oh, jack in the beans though. Exactly. So I mean, it's funny though,

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to actually have done it, you obviously got to the stage where you were like, okay,

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Dad, I can do this whether or not you were nervous to do it or not. But I mean, you still did it.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't think about it really just figured, you know, he can't do it. So I'll go. I mean,

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and so he's what can happen. What can happen? Do you look back on that now like without odd eyes,

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: then I go, he didn't really go made of you up to this. He didn't have a conversation.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: He just set the expectation and you met it. Like, do you think he learned? I was a pretty responsible kid.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So he had faith in my abilities, right? And I love spending time with older people when I was little,

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: loved it. You know, I, I far preferred spending time with the oldies than than, then my cousins and

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: people may age, even though I love them, deal it. So he knew that. So he knew I was a responsible

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: kid. But still to do that was an amazing thing. He's a good guy. I think he's given you.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But we weren't even all that close. I still cannot, to this day, think of any time that he ever

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: came in, watch me do sport. I can't think of any time at all that he came and did anything

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: up my school ever. Like he was just very career focused. Well, no, it was this your way of being close.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because it's not, I'll get onto my grandparents in a minute because he would

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: he love the fact that I was with my grandparents and I'll get onto them in a sec. But just while

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: we're here, I'll never forget. I asked my mom who's a very positive woman. She's unbelievable.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: She's just the best. And I said to my mom, because she's so cheery and happy all the time. I said,

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: have you ever had any regrets at all? She doesn't know. Now, never any regret. And then she stopped

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and she said, just one. I said, what is it? She said, once I took time off from work and went to

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: your school, prize, afternoon. They have her, dealing prizes at a primary school. And my mom is

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: my biggest fan. She still is to this day. But what happened is I got given a prize for

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: best reader or something like that. I don't really remember what it was. It was the prize for

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: best reader. Oh, illegal studies to be honest. And she proudly turned to the woman next to

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and she said, that's my son and the woman looked there and she said, yeah, he's won that

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: prize for the past three years. And my mom had no idea, my parents had no idea and she was just,

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that's she thought, geez, I haven't been around or I haven't really seen him do that. So there's

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: little bits like that. But my grandparents in Italian families, it happens a lot in southern Mediterranean

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: communities where the extended family have a lot more responsibilities. Especially for girls,

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: there are, in Sicily, there are, there's your romance, auntie, there's your job, auntie,

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: you're financial auntie. You've got different aunties that specialize in different forms of

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: advice. I have had a guide you went to adult. Yeah, and your mother is not helpful at that point

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: because your mother's too kind of, she's too close. And I've noticed this, I've spent a lot of

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: an indigenous communities in the past 25 years here in Australia. And that extended family

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: works pretty well. Yeah, that idea of having a consultant for different categories. It works pretty well.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: My, my grandparents were pretty, they're pretty lazy fair. And my grandfather, he lived till

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: 98, my paternal grandfather, who I loved nearly, was in a lot of late show sketches with us. That's

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a tell me, why is so disrespectful to me? I grew you up. I'm done. I mean, where were

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you grew me up? I'm sorry, you used to take me to the university cafe where I passively smoked

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: 20 cigarettes a day while you got gamble playing poker in the back in illegally in the back room.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not necessarily looking after me. That's just, you know, that what I find interesting about this

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: is, you know, at least I want to take care of your kids. There's lots of modern versions of that,

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: which is literally a nanodake hero, things that people have to do. Your version, you're cutting

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: like even if it wasn't, you know, your with your grandparents, you're sitting there, you were,

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you were part of it. I feel like that would have had a lasting and indelible effects because

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you're like, well, I was being made to work at Dad's Lawson but I was part of his world. Part of the

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: world and dad loved it. Dad loved the fact that I was connected to his father. So I guess my dad

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: was imperented very much by his grandfather, my grandfather either because he had to go from a small

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: village to sort of a major town in Italy to study. He's where he was sent. My grandfather was

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: abandoned by his family when he was about four so he had to look after himself. So it comes from

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: a whole lot of generations of people looking after themselves and then also using the people around

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the mouse button to fill the gap while they feel like they have to provide and go and do that work.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So all the other, all the other, and in fact, trusting people that weren't their parents.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So my grandfather, his whole family, my graded to Argentina, didn't have enough money for him so

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: as the youngest son just got left behind and lived with a Godfather but it was a Godfather because

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the Godfather even though he, when I mean Godfather, I mean a proper Godfather, not the film type,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: even though it's insistiously. You know, he may have lived in a stable with a mill but he was

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: literate. He had books and things so he taught my grandfather to read which he wouldn't have

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: been able to do otherwise. So things kind of work out but my grandfather, he used to do weird things

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: with me where he would tell stories about his childhood, right? Or even when he was growing up because

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: he had to, he was part of the socialist party of something when he was a young man and the only

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: way to rub that off your records under the Mussolini era was to go and to Ethiopia or Africa

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and fight for the Italians in the war in Africa. And he had all these amazing stories but when

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: he told me the stories, he used to include me in the story. He would always say, and then there

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: was one day we got in a white ship and we went there and we started building the road and then

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: we went to the opera that night. So I don't know why he did that, I still don't know why,

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: however the effect of it is that to me it's not even a memory in my head, it's a, it's a,

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so it's not even a memory of a story, it's an actual memory because as a kid you get told that

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you're in it. So you're in your head. You've seen you're there with him and you were doing it.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the color of his monkey, I remember that I remember how dark his room was as a

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: memory rather than a memory of a story. So strange. He's, yeah I mean obviously there's not

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: kids books in the house, he's just going, I've got a better story than that, I'll tell you about

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: when I remember that you and I did but the you and I is the kind of weird bit. Like it feels like

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: a beautiful, inclusive kind of old school but again like there was a lot of time invested,

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: like they're time for you and they had time to invite you know and it almost felt like

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: your dad realizing he didn't have the time was like, well where's the best place to provide

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that inclusion in the family? My question, hearing how close you're with your dad now.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you had conversations with him about that period and you'll have to be like,

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: dad you weren't there but we are still so close now or to... No no,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in our family you just, you never say please or thank you or it's just what it is.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I understood. It's kind of all understood so the closest thing my dad has ever said to me

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that I guess the deepest thing my dad has ever said to me was I was at a world cup with him

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: in soccer world cup in 2002 in career in Japan and I don't know where he says so he was 72

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and he said to me, by the way you know, I've given you a lot of advice over the years and

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you've ignored a lot of it and it's true because my dad has a completely different set of

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: ideas on things and often I would as a young kid I would go, if he thinks that I'm going to

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: rethink it completely and possibly do the opposite and it'll work for me and that's a strange

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: way of being and he kind of understood that anyway. He said, I've given you a lot of advice in your life

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and you've kind of ignored it and you've gone your own way. I just wanted to tell you that every

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: single decision you've made in your life has been the right decision. That's beautiful. And you know

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: really happy was that what it didn't mean very much to me. I didn't sit there and go, oh great

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: you weren't chasing. I wasn't and I'd realized I don't I'm not chasing his approval and it was a

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: great moment for me. I just said that's nice. Now I've had this discussion before I I'm going to say

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I had it with Raf Epsen who's a broadcaster here and he may have made the observation or he was

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about the observation that we may be the first generation that required both our parents

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: approval and our children's approval now. And my parents didn't require my approval ever. I doubt

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I doubt whether yours I'm speaking for you. No it's I think that's a that's a pretty

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: astute observation. I'll let just before we leave the father because something's just sprung into

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_01]: my head and I didn't and I didn't want to lose that and that is that to a lot of dad's I had

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_01]: no advice at all. I can only talk about my experience but can I tell you how beautiful my experience

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as a father to my kids how important it is to spend time with your own father. As in while

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: while you whilst you can, I really recommend that you go to the footy with them that you go to the

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: park with them and stuff there's always such stuff to learn. It's so it's almost a forgotten thing

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: now that we've grown up we should when we can spend time with our parents for our own sake and

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: for their sake. And also it's fun you know and as they get older they sort of become your own kids

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember being in Japan and Korea telling my dad I think I've just stopped to go to the toilet

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'd say no you will not be stopping to go to the toilet now we're in a hurry and I'm going

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: what I was just what I'm telling myself and you're already I'm sorry you can't go to the toilet

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: right now and and we had such a good time back then there we went to a town that was so

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that had such limited accommodation this is in in Korea that our taxi driver kept driving

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: through town and we were going here we ended up top and tailing in a hard shape bed in the love

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_01]: motel it was in these pictures and this is hilarious you know I mean the hard shape bed like

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: whoever gets the bottom is there but all our members my dad getting in there going because it

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_01]: had mirrors on the ceiling had mirrors everywhere it was it was it was it didn't even have a

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: it was port holes and it was all sort of baroque furniture and everything my dad will continue

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: to go look at all these mirrors you can watch the soccer actually that mirror in that mirror the right way

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: around and that's why they build this room down to there love soccer they just want to see

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: other times so much fun but again I think that you guys have that closeness is a real

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that's obviously you know so much of a part of your life you couldn't imagine any other way

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: except having that same with my grandfather close to him forever in fact I never forget

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: one day on the late show there was a sketch that Judith Lucy did it was called the Rejuvenator

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: it was this big big trunk with electricity flowing out of him and one of the best bits

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: so what happens is it makes you make you younger I walk in and and then a little kid dressed as

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: me walks out and she goes oh my god or we've gone we've made him too young we've got to go the

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: way and then the kid walks back in and an old man dressed as me walks out and she goes oh my god

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: we've gone too far the other way anyway what this required you know I don't want to give away

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: how we did the trick but but it involved me and my grandfather being in the Rejuvenator for maybe

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: eight seconds we had a full on argument inside the Rejuvenator as in I walked in the kid walks

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: my grandfather goes jeez you're a wanker and I've covered I've covered his lapel,

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Mike and my lapel, we're on television he's going yeah he goes you're such a big shot and you

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: can't afford me to you can't afford to buy me a new television said and literally I'm going

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: not now not now and by then the kid walked in and I pushed him out so literally in eight

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: seconds on live TV we had a domestic dispute so I love that he waited till that moment exactly

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean we've been in TV for especially at the ABC man the props department were an amazing

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: job but I wouldn't have thought being inside an ABC prop would have looping

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: screamed big shot but I think all the money he's got but yeah so but I think just going back

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to what you what your dad said like we definitely and we're pretty close to the same generation

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: we definitely had a had a our parents generation it he's a bit of action speak louder

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: words like even the fact that you're at a world cup together that is a closeness and that's

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it that's being involved in each other's lives and I guess when you're that involved in each

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: others lives there's less of a need to verbalize it all the time right to go have by the way

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I love you you love me yeah we speak every day like it's what it is and I'd like that idea

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that you know even in the no-pleases no thank you yeah it's apparent it's in the fabric of how

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: we do things that of course that's without also a handish with kids I think that there is

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: something to be said about you spend you invest a little time with them but at some point

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: especially when they're young you've actually got a verbalized otherwise that's my next that's

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: my next bit that is how you you've got it now that you're all but yeah as you said before you

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: change a lot of things up here you've acted in the inverse what did you keep from your upbringing

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: what did you change as you now moved into thought but with the kids you know that whole thing

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: about expressing how you feel to them I do remember once I spent a lot of time with both my

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: boys especially in primary school I knew I was gonna put in a lot of time especially when they're

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: very very young because I do think that stuff really really has the ultimate dividend and so what

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: did you do what was the I used to take my school to school primary school every day basically pick them

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: up whenever I could sometimes it was a bit harder on the way home but certainly take them to school

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: every single morning and be part of their school life in their dad wasn't part of my school life

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I decided to be part of their school life a lot when our young and then drop away as they got

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: older was that the plan yeah it was sort of a plan I certainly by the time they were in

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: their final two years at school I didn't want to go to any functions or anything like that

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I might go watch them play sport or something and but mind you think right now they don't

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: probably remember too much if I asked them do you remember what we were doing you know on the way

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: prep they I think that's a no I often wanted this because I've got kids now of a similar age you know

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: my little girl is in year one Monday mornings we're gonna drop my little boy early and then we have sort

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: of 40 minutes to kill me and my little girl but no they got the same school it's the best so we do

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: cafe morning oh we got the cafe well we play you know it's the greatest and then there's

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: there is a part of my mind going I don't remember a single morning for when I was 60 years old it's

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but you say I do I don't like I think it sticks but then even I sort of console myself and go even if

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't again it's the foundation there's no doubt the the slap in the face that I got was

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: remember driving the older one to maybe grade one or something like that and I done it's

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: hoping about I'd spend so much time with him you know from zero to that time but never expressed it

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and that was when you know I got oh my god I've got to actually tell him how much I enjoy doing

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: this rather than just you know and I think it's important so I never forget we were just

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember going we were on Albert Road and I was turning around and I said I really really love

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: spending time with you it's good fun you know going to school every day and you know doing stuff

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know keep to kick before we go and you know this will do yeah I love spending time with you

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's a quite kid he's just looking at the window I mean I really love it

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: he wasn't giving anything back and I'm going you know what in fact

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you know my favorite thing in life is my favorite thing in life it's spending time with you

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and it looked at me goes and my favorite thing is aftercare

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_01]: which is the opposite you know what the you know I'm this is getting away for you saying for the

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: 50 dollars and I think how much was that doesn't matter the funny thing is I think he was trying to

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: control me it's he because I was saying what I really loved he was trying to be positive so I'm going

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what I really love he got yeah well what I've told you what I really love then

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and the other time it was probably not very far from the same place but it was a few years on

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and he said hey dad what are drugs and I said well drugs are there and we have this conversation

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: you know yeah so I said well drugs are there are these substances that you take

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: the chemical they can be chemical they can be pharmaceutical but they make you change how you

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you feel so there are drugs that make you guys all right okay what do you mean and I said well

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: there are some drugs that will make you feel sleepy and there are some drugs that will make you feel

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: very awake and it was some drugs that make you hallucinate and he said what's that I said well

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like see that tree over there some people might take a drug look at that trend think that

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: there's fingers growing out of it and he goes oh that's the drug that I want to take

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: in my nursery we've got a lot of salesman that's not enough the way that talk was supposed to finish

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that's so good um we we do ask if this there's a lot of we haven't talked about the three

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: good sort of boil your parenting cornerstone and three ideals like three things that now

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: you've had you know a quarter of a century parenting these boys are there three words or ideas

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that you reckon well it comes back to well there are three words and that is strap yourself in

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that's that's so off that that is as you were to them that's not there they're enjoying that

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: they're flying around in the ride I reckon it's one of those things that it's a ride for whoever

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: whatever kids you have and it's a different ride for every parent so just strap yourself in

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: because it is a ride it's a ride so just strap yourself in in terms of where their moments where you

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: were like I think I've got this damp hat and then you hit a big you know it's worth well

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't never found that no I just found myself I'm a I'm a I'm a myself out of my leg and

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: above my what do you call it above the water was above my what do you call it?

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I was drowning I was drowning and I can't kind of and going with it yeah going with it just saying

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what this is just another challenge and life is life is just a whole bunch of adventures and

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: this is another one and as long as I keep these kids alive and healthy that that it'll it'll

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: it'll sort what I find really interesting about your scenario centers like I'm I get the

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_02]: thing that you can't even seize a little bit of your superpower because I get the feeling that when

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: the water got higher things got difficult there's absolutely no chance I don't reckon that you

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: left or you went away no no that's the thing I think that maybe you don't even see that but

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that that is in itself the the move you obviously just when I'm gonna stay in it with them

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a John Clark the comedian once told as this was about comedy riding he said

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the keys to comedy comedy riding is variation and consistency and you sit there and go

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_01]: aren't they mutually exclusive and you go actually know they're not there's a there's a

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: consistency in an attitude but there's a variation in approach so I guess like fresh stimulus

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: yes it's an attitude absolutely so with the kids I never I try to stay steady as a rock all the time

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: not because I felt like I better be obstinate and stay steady as a rock but that's how I feel I feel

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: you take a course but then but then you have to be malleable in the sense that okay there's a

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: particular problem that's just a reason here and it you know it's got to do with application at

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: school or it's got to do with a relationship with other kids and you go okay I've got to stay

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: rock solid in terms of my morals my ideals my philosophies on life but you know be nimble enough

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_01]: to go okay well hang on you want to do this but acknowledge you've never seen this particular

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: situation before absolutely because we probably fall into that trap don't we have going

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: as your own dad's head do I've given you advice but of course every time a kids come to us

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: with something we've never seen that problem before and being aware that this is a brand new

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: problem for everyone but you you're trying to be consistent with in that I think so and I think

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes there's you you uh undeserved praise I remember at the prime school and they're just

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: started to give a price to everybody in the grade and you go well wait a minute that's just a bit

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit disrespectful I reckon and a bit crazy it makes a meaningless you know it makes

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: a meaning I'm off of praising absolutely I'm praising my kids every day still that's it but

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what I find so interesting I'm fascinated by the science art of confidence and of you know

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: what all we want I think as parents is for our kids to yield confidence brick by brick by brick

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: building that confidence and building the belief in themselves and do you remember and like

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: what was your policy with like the right kind of feedback I certainly I'm just trying to go back

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to to memories that I actually do have more recent months so for instance my youngest son

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: got into the he got into a it's a fine art school and he said to me that I reckon I was

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty lucky to get in and I said I agree you didn't deserve to get in however you've got great

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: potential and you could be good enough I reckon on the work that you've done so far it's not

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: you know and you should count yourself lucky and make the most of what you've got because

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the way the cards fell so that's good so we just are loving realist I think so I

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: think but I think that I can't stand being you're I can't stand going no no no no no you're fantastic

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you're I just can't bring myself to do that and I tend to agree I suppose in my world I'm always

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_02]: looking for a thing to praise right yeah yeah but but it has to count it has to count that has to be authentic

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: has to mean something it has to really can find something whether it is effort running there's

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: still many things that could be improved but I reckon there's also lots of ways of doing it I've

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: got some graded advice and this might be as part of your three important things and it's from

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: a guy who's very very wise he lives in Sicily now but not a father he's not a father doesn't

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: have kids and I used to say oh mate you know at that trouble some time teenage at time I got my

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: all this kind of stuff and this guy's wanted to do this and he's they have a guy want to do this

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's going tell them whatever you want to tell them but do it with a smile and your face don't

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: don't don't get frustrated or anything just tell me exactly how you feel but do it with a smile

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: because they actually play on that that you know what they kind of get this perverse thing

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: or they're going I've made my dad a bit upset yeah isn't it growing up you know you're in

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like yeah and of course like you know even with little kids you feel that like as soon as you

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: lecture it just insights an over action then you overreact and it escalates so you do it with a smile

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: but then that allows you to be realistic so I've been very realistic to both my boys

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: as long as it's good nature yeah and never clearly never putting them down

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and as you say you praise the positive side of it so you you make sure that you you lead with

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that I think it's pretty good but the other thing too is I don't know how it works for

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_01]: people that are parents with you know boys and girls but with boys something happens and you've

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_01]: got to tell I certainly I've told my wife even though she's a magnificent mother a fantastic mother

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but out you this is not you get out of here now this is not you you use too many words you

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: was it an in particular age I reckon that that stuff started happening at about the

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01]: 14 and 15 year old age in that you know as human is kicking in yeah yeah but it's my

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: boys are kind of weird as in I always like to say that their combined IQ is half their individual

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: IQ so they're always getting when when they get together to do stuff it's never ends up well

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: right even though they're quite they're quite similar from each other and they both they're both

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: very I mean like all kids they have very different personalities the first the first the first kid

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: was a risk taker now nobody in any of our extended family was a risk taker so that's a me

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: was scary but exciting for me I should I've got a kid who's a risk taker what I have to deal with this

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: what sort of stuff did you have to come like you know in terms of strapping yourself in that's

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: probably a pretty good example it's a good example you remember you know have you learned a lot

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: from having a risk taker on that man the amount of learnt from my kids is phenomenal and that's been

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that's probably the third of those pillars and that is if whatever happens I always go

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: hang on what is my child teaching me at this particular point which is a great thing but because

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know forget my old boy at about 30 in or 40 and I said yeah you're gonna have a couple

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_01]: friends around but it's just a couple isn't it goes yeah and I'm going right already you know

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: my I'm I'm seeing the future I'm seeing the tailives and everything and you know there was more

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_01]: than a few and you know it got out of hand oh this kind of that normal stuff that you do in your

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: early teenage years and I remember taking him aside mate I said mate I specifically said to you

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: this is not gonna get out of hand is that there's you know you ended up inviting all these guys

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and got a bit out of hand all this kind of stuff and he goes but dad don't you see we lie to you

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that's what we do and you're gonna write okay geez how do I handle that one wow what did you say

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I just laughed I just laughed and go okay is that the way it is is if that's interesting you

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: know that so wow but you know you're loving realist too yeah amazing amazing so can I bring up a

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: related story and I'm not sure if it's with that particular son or your other son and this is

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: it me having a recollection of I guess about 10 or 11 years ago you probably don't remember

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: this conversation but it was after I think it was a speaks and specs Christmas episode right back

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: in the down the ABC these two and we were both on it and at that stage I knew I was interested

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: being a dad and I'm like you know I probably similar to exactly what I'm doing now I was

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: plot like I was you know slightly probing for tidbits of wisdom on being a father

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and I hope I remember this correctly and obviously correct me if I'm wrong but you told me

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: about you said I went with one of my boys to a like a camp almost like in the wilderness like a

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know men's camp kind of thing and I thought you were gonna give me a great story about

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: rots of passage and how it's very very important like you know just go away with your son

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and and go to meet manhood but and again I might have misremember this but I've always loved it

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you were like it wasn't really for us and we left or we just decided afterwards that wasn't

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: working for I loved it he didn't he did love I was I was getting a lot out of because I was listening

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: to other parents and I was I was taking it all it was a bit of a it was a bit of a hippie kind of thing

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: it's so it's it's like the elders are taking the young young boy's well loved it was that your perspective

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: was appealing to me I was like yes I'm gonna do that with my son but then the way you handled

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: him not him going hey this isn't my jam and then I remember it you just saying yeah we sort of

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: laughed about it afterwards I mean you've sort of bonded over the fact that it wasn't for him

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that was the first time I reckon the gift you gave me in that conversation was open my eyes or

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_02]: my brain to this idea of like oh you can also just make it up with your own kid like to me that's

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: great example of what you initially started this with is adapting of just being so easily and if your

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: kid is there going dad in fact it was almost detrimental for him because at the camp he kept on thinking

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: in fact he told me he said dad is there a problem between us he thought he thought it was there to

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: fix something up yeah right because there were so many kids that were expressing themselves about

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the damage that they had growing up and there were some damage kids there and so he started thinking

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: aren't we okay you know he actually started worrying about that and the other thing too is

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: as adults we we think we would like them to pick up the same lessons that we as you know 30 years

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: older than them want them to pick up and it doesn't work like that like the first time I took

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01]: my older boy to central desert to spend time in in remote community I wanted him to understand how

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: different life was where he lives to where in a remote indigenous community and I remember saying

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: after he's got okay Ben so can you tell me what have you learned what have you learned by being out here

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: who would have been about eight or nine or something and he said oh that they're really good

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: footballers and that was it and I said they got you know what which is beautiful and and and

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: strangely enough without foisting anything upon him he now understands that will far better than

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I that he then at person say no no you have to understand that we we come from a privilege background

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and you go that's probably the wrong lesson anyway you know what I mean as in no let him let him work

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it out but what I like about that story and again I see some analogies to your own upbringing

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no fast way to build the lessons that you learn from exposure so yes I mean I'd for

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly the same trap we're in fact next year we have a family trip plan where we're going to

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Uganda and we're going to visit a school that we do charity work for over there in on

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: colonization and I would be lying if I say there wasn't a part of my brain going and we'll only

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: be at the school for like three days being very very honest there's a part of me that's like yes I'm

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: looking forward to the children like seeing what the conditions are like you can't do because I

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_02]: hope it will give them some perspective but I also know that's a huge ask for a very young

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: brain yeah but the fact that you kept taking you a sunback and letting him

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: letting it unfurl at its own pace it does remind me a little bit of the lessons you got from

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: your child who which was time like constantly talking to a soldier wasn't one day at the

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: office with your dad and it wasn't one day at your grandparents house it was the the compound

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_01]: effect of a long term exposure that's nothing I 100% there's again I kept on I don't it sounds

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: like I'm only talking about my older boy but as a risk taker he's now 26 and is probably the most

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: sedate quiet person you could imagine he's it's like you know we went with it we guided him through

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we nursed him through it we made sure he stayed healthy all that kind of stuff and he was always

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: an outstanding boy anyway you know we loved him to death at the time but now it's like he's

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: comes through the other side and that's the other thing too you want to tell people you'll be

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01]: amazed at the end of the tunnel what happens if you put the time in now the end of the tunnel is

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: beautiful the end of the tunnel is beautiful the the the the the the the the relationship that we have

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: with with our kids as they get older is just getting better and better and better it just it does work

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: itself out but that's I know this sounds crazy but you've really got it you've also got to

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: do stuff for yourself at the time you've got to look after yourself you can't just dedicate yourself

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: to the kids I have a distinct recollection of at the age the odd one was 15 the only

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: younger one would it would have been about 12 I was the first time I'd ever been to Bali I

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: called it the Wi-Fi islands because all they wanted to do was just be in a room that had Wi-Fi

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and they hardly got out of it and well that kind of and it was infuriating it was infuriating

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and and in the end I'm going and you know what my wife and I said at the end you go that's

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the last holiday we go on we're from now on we're going on holidays and if you're not going to go

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: out then you just don't it wasn't a punishment it was like it's a waste of time this isn't

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: work and literally so that was oh that's that's got to be 10 years ago this year we all went to

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Japan as a family for the first time in 10 years it was fantastic we had a great time together but

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_01]: literally they were banned that we just said that's it but it wasn't a punishment but it was just

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: no it's useless what's the use of doing this honestly we'll go you'll you feed the cats yeah

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: we're done it's it just works better but again it's I think it shows a very admirable flexibility

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: as you say to go this was working now it's not working and we can change the time we can change yeah

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that's so funny and did the end of the boys they were like all right great this is yeah

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll let go to be away from us when when when we were a wacer I mean I'm part of me

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: he's this again with much younger children so my heads full of hopes and dreams instead of reality

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: but with younger children I sort of hear that and I go okay well I'm you know I'd be sad that

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you miss out on the family memories and the and the hopes that you're building that connection there

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: but it comes in other places yes we we had this thing where when we're writing the castle it

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is like it'll be funny and it'll be hard for me if it actually comes from the heart you know that

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you can't it if it comes from any other okay if I do this now if I force them to come to to a family

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah we're done we're gonna then they'll learn that it's important to be part of the family you

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: got no it just doesn't not with kids especially with kids if everything comes from the right place

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: it will work if it comes from the right place it will work but again it it sort of lends itself to

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that either all right so they're not going on family holidays but it's every meal time and weekend

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and so I can match and drama performance and all the other threads that are from the heart

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and from the what what what so my my kids don't spend that much time with their grandparents

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_01]: as one of the regrets as a parent that I've had that's one thing or a practical thing that I

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: went the the parents and that is teach it get another language so my wife and I first

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: we spoke only a tagging to the older boy until we lost our nerve when at Kinder or some of

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that the kinder teacher said look he's really struggling with English the moment you know as in

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and we said geez what if he grows up not being very good at expressing himself so we both started

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: speaking English to him what we should have done is one speaker tagging and the other English so the

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_01]: second one didn't even speak any tagging at all so the downstream to that was they a less close

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_01]: relationship with their grandparents then then could have been like I have a nice who speaks

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Italian very close to the grandparents my kids are very close to my to my parents but unfortunately

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that link sort of but they still have a great time together there's no doubt about that so that's

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a practical thing if they can learn another language or even the language can help them being

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: in contact with family whether it's grandparents or family overseas or whatever that's

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: something but that's so valuable it's a pretty good thing to do um the only other bit of homework

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that we like to give people is to add to the list of gold standard parenting could be anyone

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: what stands out in your mind you know what because I've always considered parenting in a

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: do an adventure and because I've always looked back at parenting and my parents parenting I've never

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: really looked at that but there is there is something that has stuck in my mind I love the concept

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: of learning from my kids I love it when especially my youngest son who's genuinely unhinged you know

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know my wife and I often think you know what sort of the family has got his madness from

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_01]: we don't kind of we don't know but when he'll say something outrageous and you know my wife will go

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: can you believe what you've just said do you know what you've just said I'd rather sit there

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I sit there and go actually hang on a minute that's actually an interesting point of view I find

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of interesting I maybe I felt like this because with my friends I say can you believe

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_01]: it you know Ben is like this or ask us like that and they they look at me and they go

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: oh kind of reminds me of somebody and you go oh okay so so they may have been a little bit like

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that as well even though what infuriates you as a parent you know other people see as a as a

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: as a sign of independence and and wonderful it's totally or it's come from you but you maybe not

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: willing to um willing to acknowledge it my mother-in-law is purpose saying as if you can spot it you've got

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: it oh right that does make me pause that's a good time because I'm like if I'm if that's annoying

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: me about you yeah yeah it's probably something that I've got but I can look at myself

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to turn this on you but I know your mom not very well but I know you guys do

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: polarity together we do polarity together and I can see her influence on you not not in terms of

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: over the eastern or how you roll and I look at Carrie and I go yeah I know I reckon I know why

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_02]: why how many roles like that I would say the big thing the only me I'm again I'm very interested

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: to get your take but I would say the big thing that mum taught me about being an adult a man is

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: the kindness not mum was incredibly mum's incredibly loving and I think you know she and

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_02]: she certainly verbalised a lot more than dad so I've got an A organ A and a B test to go

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_02]: which one do I have more and so I think I picked up a lot from mum but also just you know the

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_02]: power of the power of compassion and kindness that's mum's early gold standard there I think kindness

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_01]: is that that's gotta be the cornerstone of it all is you know I don't care what you're doing life

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_01]: kids you that's the other thing too I am just and that is I haven't spoken about

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_01]: there is sometimes non-negotiables we keep let's we've got time give us your non-negotiables

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it's kindness just because I don't care what you do I don't you know I don't care what you

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you do that's big one in our house and look I'm not a fan of ever saying in our house because I

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: said so but I have no issues with kind of introducing blanket concepts to go that's how we do things

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: our family and one of them is you know kindness and generosity and gratitude and when I

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_02]: don't mind ever just going because that's how we are in our family yeah because I think you do

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: have to have those non-negotiables you do the other one too again a friend of ours you know again

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think it was the older boy pretty good good musician he's you know he works in that audio world

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and not about piano player and they just didn't want to do it anymore and so we sit to a friend

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: of ours who's a piano player we said what should we do and she said and he said force him

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and we did and we did and you know he became a good guitar player now you know he

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_01]: he composes he you know he has a good recording studio and does audio and had it not been for

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you know Lawrence telling us no no force him he got as many years into you've something

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_01]: he would have been he would have been maybe doing great two piano or something like that great three

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_01]: piano and he's just just getting bit hard I don't know I don't know we had do you I mean

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: that's interesting because that's interesting I mean you know I would normally be like

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_02]: we all know that you can't really force kids to do anything I do think we know that if

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_02]: oh back at like a musical instrument a language there's a couple of things where you'd be like

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: a kind of wish I was forced through the dip where it's hard to the other side or all the

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_01]: there's the answer I miss you just did it with your hand you've got to show him a graph

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you actually say here's the hill you're there you're literally there and then they oh okay

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: again you know what this I've only just sort of it now that that this may be a bit of got gold

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_01]: what he called gold standard but it was from my own dad so it doesn't fit into it I remember I went

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I went from a school there's a we grew up in Colling good I went to school in Clifton Hill

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it's an inner city suburb here in Melbourne and back in I'm so all the back in my day there

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: were government scholarships to go to better schools there weren't philanthropic there were

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: government scholarships so you sit for them and you go to a better school so I went to Xavier

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_01]: College my scholarship got me to Xavier College and I hated it I'm so you know we're driving

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_01]: there and I'm going to my dad you know what I miss my friends in Clifton Hill I think I want to

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_01]: go back to the old school and for my dad was heartbreaking because all he wanted as an

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: anti-mon is to get a better life for the kids and his dream was for me to go to a good school

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know and this scholarship helped you could see you're not like I'm afraid

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and so and I'll never forget what he said he said okay he said okay you can do that but

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_01]: can you do me a favor just do just do two more months wow if you do two more months and you

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_01]: still feel like that then you can go back so he said yes he didn't say no that's good isn't it really

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: good that I've heard a similar outage before which is when kids are in that space where they're

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know whether they're playing basketball or whatever in their upset or it's not going well

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that idea of going we can't quit when we're upset when things are looking when things are

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: great you can give up then but you can't give up when things look you know that's really good

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and whatever tricks we can use is just a little hanging there a little bit like I it's actually

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_02]: an interesting one for me because yeah I both fiercely agree with like pushing through the

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: do but then at the same time as you've pointed out so many times you have to have that

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_02]: something to let it do yeah this isn't working centre I think this has been so good and I

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: reckon if there's an overarching lesson that I we kind of keep going back to that I love love so much

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_02]: from this it is that the you are whether you see it or not I think you're a master of adaptability

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and of flexibility and it's so it's so beautiful what a dad well that's well thank you

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just I'm just glad I survived certain things in my childhood from my grandparents because

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: as I say my grandfather he parented me now I love anyway but again I think I think I think it's

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: really to say that you're the product of a lot of time invested and that's that's a beautiful

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_02]: thing is anyone has anyone quoted um colors your brand no no yeah please do please do

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it raises the general intelligence question it's the whole podcast this is great

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_01]: turns it into a mini tent it's not really it's got it's got it's got all the hallmarks of a hallmark

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: card it's but it's not the author is it the profit the profit little hero I can I just please

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I urge any parents out there get a copy of the profit and keep it on your bedside

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's a bit daggy and it's a bit you know I reckon I've read it a long time before I became

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: a father and this is a good reminder this is just some of the excerpts from his thing about

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_01]: when the profit was asked about children tell us about children your children are not your children

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_01]: they are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself they come through you but not from you

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you may give them your love but not your thoughts for they have their own thoughts you may

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: house their bodies but not their souls for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow which you

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_01]: cannot visit not even in your dreams for life goes not backward nor terrorist with yesterday

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth you may strive to be like

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01]: them but seek not to make them like you and it's is great it's really really good really is now

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's not all that that's that's it's really good yeah when you're out there

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you guys this is good they are you good you listen to this but you know what that is that is a

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_02]: beautiful way of saying get out of their way you get out of their way love them will help them

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_02]: help them along their own way a sharper but do you yeah yeah yeah in front of them and I think

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it is harder time so so you need little reminders for yourself because you know we're all human

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and yet you know you tend to get lost a little bit and and frustrated like it's in the way

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought after two or three years of doing this podcast I would you know be much better at

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_02]: not getting caught up in my own thoughts but I still am like it's I'm still making all the

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_02]: mistakes that that advisors against I totally agree you have to continuously remind yourself

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah that's what it's about that's a beautiful thing that's a that's a great reminder to all

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: it's good fun and it's great you know it's great to talk about this stuff because it brings it all back

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel happy with so grateful for you make them time thank you so much thank you so much thank you

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_03]: he's gonna say some other stuff but he will be by himself he's such a beautiful guy

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Sanito I really appreciate him taking the time for us I think the overarching thing that hits

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_02]: me there and I'm I would hazard to guess that some people are pretty much the same as like

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you know you have all these ideas and of course because we wanted to do such a good job but

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's always the simple stuff like how often just being open to who your kids are and where they're going

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: is just such a critical skill that I think that you can never over practice and knowing that every

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_02]: kids different they have different things they're into and really the best thing you can do

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: is consistently just be present and I guess be fluid and adaptive with what they're doing so

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: one of those other one of those things that we have a lot on the show where you're like that's

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_02]: so easy to say but I love hearing it again because as we say it requires a daily discipline

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: to remake it happen so thank you Sanito awesome recommended me to making my kids learn an instrument

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_02]: currently facing a personal battle on that front in fact just last night we have the conversation

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: drums are so hard I think I'm gonna do guitar that seems really easy it's only got six strings

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_02]: we had to talk about how we shouldn't choose things a based on how easy they are but also

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_02]: got into the weeds a bit on how many combinations of note six strings can create and it's not

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not a path to instant musical mastery anyway that's my own personal battle I'm sure

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: everyone took their own personal stuff out of it thanks again Sanito and thank you for listening we'll see

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_02]: next time

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: however the dead's dad is produced by myself and my mate Tim Bartley the theme song is thanks to

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the incredibly talented Tom Cardi you can find him drenched throughout the internet we recorded

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: this episode on the lands of the Warrundry and Woonerung people of the Cooler Nation and we pair

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_02]: space to their cultural storytelling that survive for thousands of years if you want to say hi

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: hit your website however the dad's dad dot com but most of all thank you for listening

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_03]: we'll just talk with a dad and I'm looking his tiny mind about what he loves so he'll pick

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: on his dad's and force them to talk to him so he can find out how other dad's dad

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: before we go the organizers of how other dad's dad to never say producers no we produced it

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: um look both of us would like to thank herds again herds always there for us whenever we need a car

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_02]: whenever you need a car to rent with love you to think about herds so you can get 25% off by

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_02]: going to herds.com.au forward slash hodd as in how other dad's dad you can 25% off the base

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_02]: day right terms of conditions do apply to that and yeah this is the same we just same ad

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: recording at the end of every episode um that is true but the reason we do that is because we

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_02]: think it's great analogy to how consistent service you get a herds is so we're like let's do

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the same ad to represent the same consistent quality episode car to car at herds not just because

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we're looking to save time absolutely not couldn't why would you ever think that thanks herds