How Beau Miles Dads

[00:00:00] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad So he made this show where he talks to all the dads so he can find out How Other Dads Dad How Other Dads Dad

[00:00:19] Alright, very exciting episode, bit of a different... well a very different episode of How Other Dads Dad for this week Thank you, as always, I just feel overwhelmed we need to thank everyone for their feedback and contacting the show

[00:00:33] and sharing what the conversations here and what the guests have taught them, what it means to them So massive thanks to everyone that are either in person or online contacts

[00:00:42] The show, this is a really... this is a super fun ep for me, I mean I'm just going to call that straight up It's with Beau Miles, who is Beau Miles? I reckon you either really, really know Beau Miles

[00:00:53] or you don't know Beau Miles. I hope by the end of this everybody loves Beau Miles I'm sure they will love Beau Miles and they'll want to investigate him further

[00:01:00] He is essentially a filmmaker, I would say if he was to describe it he would accurately describe himself as a filmmaker I would call him more of an adventurer and a joyful enthusiast of creative ideas

[00:01:16] He's predominantly on YouTube, people might have even seen some of his live nights He makes these sort of beautiful 15-20 minute films of his adventures He sort of became known as the backyard adventurer because a lot of the stuff he came up with

[00:01:30] and a lot of things you'll find on YouTube are things that require pretty much what you could find in your own backyard And that's what drew me to him in the first place

[00:01:39] The very first film of his I saw was where he runs a mile an hour around his property in country Victoria So that takes him about 10 minutes to run the mile probably a bit quicker than that

[00:01:48] And then over 26 hours he's running a marathon but in the rest time for the rest of the hour he's got a bunch of jobs that he has to do So here's this bloke just running around his country property

[00:02:00] getting into his barn at the end of 50 minutes of an hour and finishing a table or hanging some pictures or planting 100 trees or making damper or doing this stuff So at the end of 24 hours he's running a marathon and he's just had a super practical 24 hours

[00:02:16] Now a lot of people have seen that film I think over 4 million views so far on YouTube That's the first one I saw of his before I became a fan And for those that have seen it you'd know his enthusiasm is really infectious

[00:02:26] His background is in outdoor education where he was a lecturer at Monash University He's also done some pretty wild adventures predominantly in kayaking, sea kayaking and some epic kind of trips around the Cape of Africa and things like that

[00:02:42] that you can find in his book if that's the kind of thing that literally floats your boat We hadn't actually met until we did this podcast

[00:02:52] And I just want to give you a bit of quick background because we do go into it a little bit in the interview This was recorded outside We came up with this idea to meet halfway between our houses

[00:03:02] I live in Sydney, he lives in Country Victoria just outside Melbourne He's made a film about our adventures which I think is going up as we speak online So you can find that on YouTube

[00:03:14] But our idea was we just thought it would be fun to meet in the fairest geographical distance between us Which is exactly halfway but also do what we have termed in the film as the world's most inconvenient podcast So I took all the podcasting gear on my back

[00:03:31] I bought my two kids camp somewhere in the snowy mountains Then woke up on the Saturday and spent that whole next Saturday going on this adventure which you can see in the film to get us to an island where then we finally kind of all the families met

[00:03:48] And then Timmy who makes a podcast with me He bought three of his many children along And we all had just had the greatest time So where this interview picks up, we're sitting under a tarp It was actually freezing

[00:03:59] We'd go on to be one of the coldest nights we've ever experienced But never not full of laughter as everyone tried to camp and survive on this island where it didn't stop raining We're under a tarp where he bought his film crew along

[00:04:11] And they're all legends and there's quite a lot of water around So Tim jumps in for some safety messages But that's the setting for this And I wanted to do it this way because it just seemed like a lot more fun than doing it normally

[00:04:24] And Bo's the kind of guy that you want to do stuff like this with And I think it feeds nicely into why I was attracted to speaking to someone like this About like, you know, how does someone that is sort of brimming with creativity in the adventurous spirit

[00:04:40] How do they go about being a dad? What can we take away from it as we try and inject a little bit of that into whatever our situations are So this is in the rain under a tarp on an island in the middle of the snowy mountains somewhere

[00:04:53] For an inconvenient podcast but I hope a very informative one Please enjoy How Bo Miles Dads Um, Bo Miles, welcome to How The Dads Dad Usually we're on a couch or in an Airbnb somewhere We're under a tarp with a bunch of sticks

[00:05:15] What do you call this stick arrangement? I call them veranda posts Yeah, veranda posts Yeah, yeah Mate, we're on a lake What is this lake? Well I've been stuffing up the name Lake Ucambine Beautiful I think or Ucambine

[00:05:28] We're on an island in the middle of a lake here in the snowy mountains Yep In New South Wales Exactly pretty close Well, pretty close to exactly halfway between our two houses 345 kilometres from our doorsteps Yeah, yeah

[00:05:43] We decided that there was a lot of fun in doing this podcast In geographically the fairest location So I didn't have to come to you You didn't have to come to me Yep But in doing that it's also become, I think, the world's most inconvenient podcast

[00:05:59] I think it might be I'm so stoked to be here Like I am, we're on a massive high because Like to paint the scene We're under a tarp Got a bunch of kids behind us in a different tarp We've got your guys here

[00:06:11] You're making a film on this expedition to meet halfway I've got to bring my kids And we've just had the best adventure You've left these clues along the way to direct us to where we are now I just want to thank you because you've authored

[00:06:25] Already one of the great adventures of our lives for me and the kids And to me, adventures and memory making It kind of is the point to me as a dad That's why I'm a fan of yours And that's why it resonates so much

[00:06:40] But right now are you feeling that same buzz? Do you still get that buzz when you're adventuring Or is this just another day in Bo's life? No, this is the whole point, mate Yeah, you nailed it I've never done it with little May

[00:06:53] She's three and a half years old And sadly she's kind of a COVID kid too So for the first two years of her life We were stuck on the farm And we had a ball but we didn't go very far So this is our first time

[00:07:05] It's her first time in a kayak First time in a... Oh no, she's been in a wheelbarrow a couple of times But her first time in a tent Is it really? So we get to do this together This is the first Because I just thought

[00:07:16] Even just seeing her when we rocked up She just seems like a seasoned bushy She was just like, I can't I can't She's a good outdoor little dude She's like, come to the campfire What can we get you? So give us your dad's stats

[00:07:26] Is all you've got May and... May and little Charlie So two little girls And we're in our purple patch Of parenting at the moment It's really good Insane that's fricking hard We're in our hardest... It's the hardest year of my life The last year

[00:07:40] And I'll elaborate on that later But it's all for a good thing This is where your ego takes a check back Because it's no longer about you anymore You've got these two little dudes That you're trying to raise It's funny you mentioned that

[00:07:53] Because you know, you've found this career Like, it's not always what you've professionally done But you now have this career And a following as an adventure As someone that creates... What I love about your adventures Is incredibly creative adventures With often not need for much stuff

[00:08:12] You know, running a marathon in a hotel That kind of thing like What I love about your stuff Is that stuff anyone can do If they put their mind to it But that's your superpower I think has come out with these brilliant ideas

[00:08:23] But you must be used to doing it alone You know, you kind of tackle a lot of this stuff solo And that's your muscle memory You know, whether it's huge runs in mountains Or whatever it is But now you've got... Like, you know, since you've become a dad

[00:08:39] There is that thing where you're like It adds a whole another layer of complexity When you're responsible for someone else Which I've been feeling for the past 48 hours As we've ventured out to get to you Yeah, I'm drip feeding away from my 20s

[00:08:55] And just reinventing how to try and still tap into that experience Or that sort of... You know, the vistas of a world Where you're just there seeing it by yourself And to be honest, I'm kind of over that I love sharing it now

[00:09:09] But I do love being alone And one of the things I was thinking about you today Is when you were last alone in the wilds And how healthy that is for your shared dadness You know, because Hamish still needs his own time too So I still really...

[00:09:23] I love being out here by myself But I love now bringing the family along That's pretty new to me I mean, yeah, that element though of like There's danger, you know Those missions you go on in your 20s There's that dance of danger and excitement

[00:09:40] But you know, it's on you, you're responsible for it But now there's a whole new kind of danger when you bring a kid Because you're like, I'm going to get in so much trouble If something goes wrong Oh my And it's a whole different fear

[00:09:51] Yeah, I had that for... As a 20-something going into guiding a lot more It was... You still have that fear as a guide too Because you've got to get your chickens home safe And even though if they're paid clientele They're your mates

[00:10:05] But you're the more experienced one out here You've got to get them home safe And I've had trips where I'm sick to my stomach Just trying to get people home safe And I don't want to repeat it, to be honest It's horrible

[00:10:16] You've got to just pair it back just a touch So that everyone's okay But I know that often people think They're some of the best trips they've ever had to When they're threshold of some kind And you're crapping yourself Because you think if things go bad

[00:10:31] I can't fix it for everyone I can bug out myself But I can't often save others And that's a scary place to be That's literally how I'm feeling here now With my kids out here I mean, I feel a lot safer because I'm with you

[00:10:42] But we've set up We've spent the day venturing to get here But I'm still in the back of my mind going I gotta set up a tent And I didn't 100% check if all the bits and pieces Were in the tent back But it's still on my mind

[00:10:55] Like it's gonna get cold Yeah, your kids are gonna be warm and cuddly tonight This is real, you can hear the rain I hope it's an annoying people the rain Hey, just above your head there's a lot of water Oh yeah, there's a lot of water pooling

[00:11:10] There's a lot of water pooling above my head I reckon you should We could empty that Poke it now Empty it brother Well what I was gonna say was If you go to a lot of apps You can actually pick this sound as a meditation

[00:11:21] So I don't think it's gonna be too distracting for people I listen to this in whale sounds all the time We needed someone to rock up with a pan flute And we're fine Alright here we go I'm just gonna get out of the way Of the water

[00:11:33] I mean this is something we don't normally have to do During the podcast is just to get rid of Beowing Is this the right way to do it? Oh people would have heard that too That's such an authentic sound That's a lot of water coming off the top

[00:11:45] You can put authentic as a keyword on this thing now mate It's very good Okay we're good The kids are sort of running around the rain Behind us getting firewood But I'd love to start with your You know where we stay with a lot of people

[00:11:58] But your three keywords Your three philosophies for your dating What's important to you? Well I'm not always a great dad home So I wondered how I'd approach your conversation Because I think I need to pull my socks up A bit on a lot of my dating

[00:12:15] I think I'm a good dad But I think I could be a great dad If I did different things Where do you see it? The room for improvement Look I'll start a bit higher up That my dad is currently sick right He's got leukemia He's sick for years

[00:12:30] And he's doing really well with it But unfortunately when I see dad now It's still very transactional I help him clean his gutters Or take in the bins Or help you know clean a tank Or do something that's quite domesticated

[00:12:42] I don't just sit and just have a chat to him I make it a role Or I help by doing something And I fear that sometimes I do that With May particularly I'm a facilitator And it's very transactional I get her top I drop her off at daycare

[00:13:01] I make sure she's well fed And give her a cuddle when she cries And I do these things That are kind of reactionary Rather than just hang out with her And so I would say To be a great dad You just got to hang out with your kid

[00:13:17] Some time and do it all on their turf In a sense and follow their lead Because they're bloody great at life And I just don't do it enough I think so many people would absolutely be able to sympathise And recognise with that feeling

[00:13:34] And it comes from a good place too Because you're trying to do I know that feeling You're trying to do the thing you think they need Like alright guys let's go here Or plan the day or whatever But you think about the times that

[00:13:47] Your dad or a parent Went into your world And how special that makes you feel And that is what we're trying to recreate for our kids I feel the same way I often get to the end of the day and go I could have done a lot better

[00:13:58] Scrapping whatever plan I had And getting more into the kids world And let that be the message that just Hey guys your world is so important to me That I want to be in it Yeah And to do stuff that is super fun

[00:14:12] Engaging and in some respects very non-adult like And that takes time and creativity And it's a hassle In some respects people think that's a hassle And so that's why we don't do it But we should Because the rest of life seems urgent

[00:14:23] And that seems like an optional extra Yep And we obviously get it down the track And then the kids are growing up and we're like Oh that was the urgent thing We just let the other business get in the way Yep

[00:14:34] So for you how would you sum that up in a word Like what is that feeling for you? Uh I kind of got to be off grid And I said it to When we first got here today

[00:14:45] We got here about an hour earlier than you on this island And it was a really lovely hour Because we thought oh geez We've got an hour to kill Let's just You know go and look for yabby claws And get firewood together

[00:14:57] And do very tactile things that were So okay I need to go back to your one word Um I don't know Unrestrained And what's What is it when you got time pressured Untimepresured Yeah I like that Yeah untimepresured I like it It's a harder and harder skill

[00:15:14] I reckon for people to have these days to Remove that voice in your head of going What's next Oh especially if you fancy yourself as ampere And I've been saying for years I'm really ambitious Which means you got a big ego in some respects

[00:15:26] To try and drive your own agenda Fordmore Yeah And uh God I gotta You gotta just pair back Yeah Stepping on into their world Now I do need to admit too I've got to probably reveal to people listening You did spend an hour with your lovely daughter

[00:15:41] May finding crab claws And yabby claws And then when I got here I made her cry I'm so sorry No no you repaired it beautifully I mean you couldn't get You couldn't probably script a worse way To make an impression

[00:15:58] We get here finally you and I have met in the flesh High fiving We're all standing around the fire So just to explain Here's what I think happened Cause I was mentally going Why did I just do that My little boy was putting Bark in the fire

[00:16:13] And I guess I thought we were all Just putting stuff in the fire Finding interesting things to throw in the fire May hands me this thing I'm like oh that's so interesting What is it Cause it's a crab claw

[00:16:24] And then as I'm sort of throwing it in the fire And then I chuck it in the fire Cause I guess I thought we were all Just chucking stuff in the fire Then I noticed May's Really trying hard to make a brave face

[00:16:36] And then I thought to myself Oh did she want to keep that And then the voice in my head went Of course she did People don't throw crab claws in the fire It's not a flammable thing Like why would you throw it in the fire

[00:16:46] And it turns out like That was a special You were very sweet about it And you went down to the coast And you made amends I would have scoured this island Until nightfall to get another So through that adversity

[00:16:58] You've gone down and you've now got a tighter bond Because you went and found her a bigger crab claw And you spent some quality time doing it So I think you knew what you were doing To take, this is a really long bow

[00:17:08] But is that part of your make up Do you like that idea of going Cause I watch your adventures Sorry not to make children cry In terms of that thing of going If something bad happens If a, you know, forks in the roads Spanners in the works

[00:17:25] I think you're a master of In the challenges you undertake Harnessing those and seeing What good there is in them There's a piece of me that always Loves things to work out How you think they will plan out But they're often pretty wacky Ideas to start with anyway

[00:17:40] So you like those adverse things Within it But yeah fundamentally And especially if it's kind of a You know we crashed a drone today And we, you know, crashed a drone yesterday Once they're crashed and they're kind of ruined And you can't use them on that shoot

[00:17:57] That's okay, we can't do anything about it We can't fix them out there in the field We just get on with things And so if a crab claw is in the fire And you can't pick it out Then that's okay, just go find another one Or explain it

[00:18:11] It's a really beautiful moment of fathering too Like you were, you played The double card of extremely tender And extremely positive Lurching into the next crab claw hunt I appreciate it too as the man that had made That beautiful child cry Really appreciated having an ally there

[00:18:27] I think you knew what you were doing I think you were onto it I want to bond with May so I'm going to Put in a little bit of a sense of See my kids on the way over Watch this for a power move guys That's the thing

[00:18:41] What's the second bow miles Dadding philosophy I think the creative thing So I don't know a lot about Early childcare My career as an educator Was in 15 year olds to 25 year olds So I have such respect And I don't know how

[00:19:03] They do such a remarkable job of young kids Knowing how hard it is To be on their level When you have 12 to 1 ratios At a kinder I think wow You need medals everyday people It is amazing So I suppose my second dating thing

[00:19:19] Would be for the young ones Is to really try and embrace And to follow their creative Curiosities Because they're the ones that take the longest So it comes back to that time Thing again, when May wants to paint Let's paint Tomorrow day when the weather is nice

[00:19:37] And we've got a bit longer Just paint The further you go on to The more you realise Those sparks They don't happen less and less But you recognise them for how rare they are We're always looking for the thing That grabs our kids attention

[00:19:55] That's the thing you want to notice I think I always have that fear Of being too busy To miss one of the things That gets our attention Because they're not going to be into everything And you want to see the thing they're into So once you see that

[00:20:11] Fan that flame as best you can Whatever it is Painting, flute, playing, carving Basketball, whatever it is So for you Do you create space or Creating? I think one of the failings Of let's talk throughout their education For a decade or two Is um

[00:20:33] I'm really sorry to interrupt You're about to lose the 10 again Oh yeah he's got a big bow No worries mate Pro job home So thanks to me I actually just notice as the tarp comes Down between our vision I can't see bow anymore

[00:20:51] Is this this big bladder room? Just a beard talking Sorry so in outdoor Ed's Well I think one of the failings In it's current form for a lot of places Is that it's entertainment It's not educational anymore So I don't advocate just being an entertainment machine

[00:21:07] With our kids and to just put on Extravagant Things to keep them titillated And involved Um because I'm a bit more Tough love than that you know Find your own curiosities and I'll support you in it But and so I suppose it's just about um

[00:21:25] I know when May 1st went to The trampoline by herself It would have been it was In fact the only reason she went by herself Was because I couldn't find some socks To put my gum boots on so And then I got distracted with the dishes or something

[00:21:39] And all of a sudden she's just out there doing it herself Having a ball I thought oh I didn't need to be there In the first place So it's allowing her that time To be independent and find That fun and independence herself

[00:21:51] But of course you never quite know what that line is sometimes Of where you And to digress again I suck as an instructor I always fail as an instructor Of teaching someone how to do a Lovely you know becoming A from a beginner

[00:22:07] Canoist to someone that can go down a class For a rapid I sucked at that transition Because I really want to just make sure people Can learn under their own steam to Make that transition now if you're

[00:22:19] A great instructor you can teach someone to do that in a couple of days As a good guide or someone Who's just a safety facilitator That's going to take them a year or two But I think that year or two There's so many wonderful learnings in it

[00:22:31] They've had all these great experiences Becoming this canoeist So would you say your Approach To allowing your kids to discover things Is less instruction More guiding More create the space to learn And if it happens In a week, a month whatever It's all purposeful

[00:22:51] Like there's no wasted days Well I don't know the cop out in that Is that okay you can learn someone how to You can give them the skills To up skill themselves earlier So you can teach someone the basics of piano

[00:23:03] And then they can go on to become A much better pianist If they've learnt Themself it takes some ages And they might lose interest and they'll never go on To play the piano So it's always About where you're instructing And where you're guiding and basically

[00:23:17] Where you're teaching as well The dance And that's that fine line between Entertainment and education When does it become quite skilled I really like that I think if we sort of A lot of people listening to this Pause and go when am I educating my kids

[00:23:35] And when am I entertaining them And I think we'd all like to We probably have all got different answers for that But we probably would all rather Have a bit more education in there As well as entertainment And doing both

[00:23:49] And you go to a kinder for a kick ass educator And they're 50-50 the whole time Everything has purpose Everything is fun Everything is educational Now we don't do that in adult education anymore We make it quite formal Here's your pathway These is what you must do

[00:24:07] ABCD to get to Z Whereas kids They don't have that attention span So it has to be all good and all consuming Okay that's under the banner of creativity there Third one Look I think the third one is Less is more

[00:24:23] You know I'm trying to create adventures that are less Less are more We live in a tiny house but it's still full of stuff And I still think it's too much stuff So less things And you go to cultures that don't have as much

[00:24:35] Stuff or clutter or plastic Or toys in their house It forces their hand For kids for their imagination to blossom And I know May's got a brilliant imagination Probably no thanks to me to be honest Probably more my wife but I know this sounds so cliched

[00:24:51] But let's do it anyway This adventure, this two-day adventure That's brought us to this top hole in here in the rain Yesterday was six hours in the car And then today The adventure you pegged out for us Has been hiking up and down mountains In wheelbarrow's, in wagons

[00:25:07] Then paddling across this island Now I know We all know this but just as like There couldn't be a more crystal clear example For me. Yesterday in the car I'm not proud of this We just had to instigate a one hour on one

[00:25:21] Hour off policy with the iPads because It's six, seven hours driving So we're doing that And everyone's ready and they're scratchy Because it's just pumping Light in their head We all know you got to do it Every parent here is, you know, we're all using

[00:25:37] iPads but then today We're out, we're walking up hills We're having chats, we're looking at trees There's Like a, you know, we're finding insects Then we get to this island What have the kids been doing for the last hour? Like racing around in the rain

[00:25:53] Finding bones of animals Your son's burning animal bones Fascinating, he says they smell like cookies I think he's onto it Possibly on a watch list But do you know what I mean? Like that response of finding the bones In any way, any level of entertainment

[00:26:09] We could facilitate in the chaos today I know we all know this But gee it's a great reminder To just get out, find some bones Get a kid's crab claw throw it in the fire But be in You know, be in a place

[00:26:23] Where you don't need anything and so your mind Can wander Well in many respects you come to a place where everything is here You know, and so that's the beauty Of it too, there's so much interest There's so much things to puddle around

[00:26:35] Right now, you know, and they are all warm They're all jeed up on lots of cookies They've had their body weight in cookies So they're right till this time tomorrow But they're still having a ball They're making puddles out of the tarps And they're collecting big leaves

[00:26:49] And it's just grass Mate that's so interesting, yeah Because even just without thinking I've gone He would have come out to a place with nothing But you're right, you can't have a place with everything That's an old cliche thing I think it was an old Confucius thing

[00:27:03] You shouldn't have corrected me because Man, Bo is so wise, that's amazing I've totally bladed your eyes The big thing was that when people are so busy In their sort of work-centric, western-centric lives Now they want to go away to nothing

[00:27:15] And do nothing, and really they're going away To do everything To go away and find out all of the intricacies Of the world that are not related To their one thing or their ten things That are so dominating of their life Go away to the kaleidoscope

[00:27:29] Of, you know, we're on a biotic Community of an island right now that is unique To this island, and there's so much here That we could go and explore And it's very, well, it's unique to the island I'd love to cover, you know, adventure

[00:27:43] It's sort of what drew me to your films first Is, you know, it was actually a mate That put me onto, so shout out to Darcy But mate put me on going, I think this bloke Will be right up your alley And the pull that I think

[00:27:55] So many of the people have that watch your stuff Is, as we said before, it's the simplicity Right, it's... I know this is out here And it's for people to discover But your voice and the way you Do it and the twinkle in your eye

[00:28:07] Is infectious, you know And it does remind you that You do not need lots of gear Although I've tried to disprove that today Generally lots of gear or an elaborate You know, set up to have an adventure You know, that's the beauty of your stuff It's an idea

[00:28:23] It's just a creative idea And then a willingness to just Have a crack at it and go for it That spirit of adventure Where does that come from in your life? It's evolved and like any good thing it evolves And as a 20 year old

[00:28:39] I was very much in that classic train Of going, have big hard long Gritty adventures where you kind of Prove yourself as a physical young person Young adult, young male You're gonna go do these things that kind of I tried to put myself in the spotlight of

[00:28:57] As being a kayaker Being the new breed of gutsy kayaker That can go out and paddle a continent And make a name for themselves And it was totally flawed Massively flawed process One, to find myself and two as a storyteller Not good bang for buck

[00:29:13] So adventure now has very... Can I just ask why was it flawed In terms of finding yourself? Well, I mean in a very basic way You know that was a hundred I don't know, 123 days or something I forget but it was a long time

[00:29:27] A lot of the time by myself too And it was sort of one in ten One in ten days, hey, was good The other nine days was just bloody hard work Now often when you go on an expedition Or an adventure at that high end Threshold stuff

[00:29:41] I often think it's a resistance to Regular bureaucratic life Lo and behold you're out there on the expedition And you've made your expedition into The very thing you've resisted back home Right In the sense that you've just created A whole new layer of work for yourself

[00:29:57] You've made your expedition your adventure Work And yet it has served an amazing Kind of purpose to me Because that was a fork in the road for me I got back from Africa And it felt very unsuccessful And it did half the distance I wanted to

[00:30:13] I was broke, I just thought this is kind of crap It wasn't what I thought it would be I need to reinvent this idea of adventure Was there a lesson in that for you In terms of going you create an adventure

[00:30:23] Where only by succeeding have you done it But by going halfway Going halfway is more of an adventure Than 99% of people would have in their entire life But yet it didn't feel fulfilling Because it was pegged to the outcome Yeah So I've stripped back the outcome

[00:30:39] To be a lot looser now And I'm far more whimsical With where a thing might take me Just strip it back man You know, come up with a very simple idea Trust yourself to do it And the rest is in the lap of your own physical body

[00:30:53] And what decisions you trust Yourself to make out there I love that, and I think that is the hallmarks to me I think about adventures a lot And both, you know, sort of what A little bit of what I've done professionally Like back in the day with Andy

[00:31:07] And then what I like to do in my personal life And stuff with the kids We always had a thing with our adventures Where we were like, if you have to achieve an outcome You have to take the red flag Because you'll paint yourself Into a corner

[00:31:21] And you'll kind of miss all the point of going But if you... we used to think of it Like setting the trajectory So like if you set the trajectory Correctly It doesn't matter where this goes Because it started from an interesting place

[00:31:35] Like it started from a funny place And if it's let's see how far we can go On this aqua trike Or let's see if we can get up this volcano It kind of doesn't matter what happens from there Because it was silly to begin with

[00:31:47] And we'll take anything we get But if it had to work, you're in trouble Yes, absolutely It's like being put into a room A vacuum of a room and say, right be funny Yeah, although I don't know about that I've always thought I'd be good in jail

[00:32:01] Because I've got a good imagination But I don't know I spent two weeks in jail in Ireland once But it was under very different circumstances Please share Well I had 20 quid a day Travelling around Ireland And I met the guarder, the police In the pub

[00:32:19] And he said there's no one in the cells tonight You can stay there, I was just camping wherever I was And I stayed in that cell And then he called ahead to the next town I was going to And I just kept staying in all these cop shops

[00:32:29] That didn't have anyone in the cells Now they would freaking lock me in every night Like they could do Clank Got my stainless steel toilet And I was like, oh gosh, see you in the morning So it was a free hostel

[00:32:43] And no one's going to steal your stuff No one can get into your room Oh it was very safe How many nights did you do that for? I did 12 nights in a row This is what I meant Surely were those things formative for you

[00:32:57] To be like, okay there's great adventure in this I just thought this is just fantastic There's a loophole, who does that Where you openly encourage a conversation With a detective Because I looked a bit dodgy, a bit of a vagrant And I thought, oh this bloke's a cop

[00:33:11] He's coming up to just sort me out And then we have a pint And then another pint And I'm in the cop shop For two weeks you just stayed in jail cells for free I'm warm, dry Yeah you've got another big

[00:33:25] Let me just get rid of this water There we go I mean Do you have Like when you look at your kids growing up Do you have hopes that they will encounter Versions of adventures Absolutely I don't know how, look I know my mum Was a wild 20 something

[00:33:45] Year old travelling through Afghanistan She was on house arrest in Afghanistan For I think three weeks Because her friends had pot with them When they were travelling This is what mum says And was in house arrest in Afghanistan And so she tells me this now

[00:34:01] In kind of this pseudo way And she's the safety police in my life now But I said mum I've never been in house arrest I was never at an international border With a bag full of hash You're a wild woman I'm not doing this sort of stuff

[00:34:17] The penalty was house arrest She was pretty gentle to be honest She was probably sleeping with the policeman At the time, I think Mum if you're listening to this Make sure you film in on the real details So I know that Dad he was wild right

[00:34:33] So yeah I really encourage These sort of life experiences because I think they're excellent But I don't know how, this is all hearsay Because May is three and a half I don't know what it's going to be like when she's 15 and 18 Wanting to be this real

[00:34:47] I was going to say like you know I think you and I would have a similar philosophy Here where we were like that's the stuff that's It's you know The best part of your life is those memories Like whether you realise it at the time or not

[00:34:59] But like you know it's the staying in Staying in jail for 12 nights Is a cheap way of backpacking And it's expeditions and it's Those adventures you find yourself on They become your stories Like you know I would say you're an absolute outlier For someone in their 40s

[00:35:15] I think a lot of us get to our 40s And go jeez it was Pretty much the stuff you did between 18 and 25 They become the stories for your rest of your life Now I don't want that to be the case But for a lot of us that's true

[00:35:27] I think you're sadly correct mate And I want to completely shatter that And crank up now for the next 20 years While I've still got a body that can kind of do this stuff Yeah But yeah I'm totally unqualified to talk about

[00:35:39] How to parent for those real high end stuff I mean a big adventure for me right now Is to go get a mail Because it's the roads right there And a tractor might squish her So I've got it When people talk to me about their 16 year old

[00:35:53] Problems and things Do you have an idea of how you might Feed that in Or start to drip feed that And kind of release the handbrake A bit as she gets older Having worked with young kids a lot And not an expert in them

[00:36:09] No but you do have significant experience Working in camps and in the outdoors And adventures with kids What are some of the things you've learnt About what works well with adventure And kids of that teenage age You know what I do I've always talked to mayors

[00:36:25] A 3 and a half year old And 10 year olds that I've had on camps And 15 year olds that are year 9s And not sure of the world and what not I always just talk to them as a human I really trust people's own decision making I really trust humans

[00:36:39] I think humans are so capable And so I like Setting forth Paths that they can make those They can just make decisions Right wrong or otherwise With parenting Gee that's a good That's one of those ones that you get sometimes on this podcast

[00:36:57] Where I just you know it hits you When you really think about that statement It's a very powerful thing The trust Because what it's the antithesis of Is don't do that Hang on a sec I've told you three times All those things we find ourselves saying

[00:37:15] That's the antidote a little bit I think to that to go See here you go A real life A live example is happening behind me Like I know there's an open fire and our kids are putting sticks in them

[00:37:27] And waving them around and I'm trusting that that's okay Because we've had the talk We know how to be safe with the stick I'm only seeing one gumboot being burned at the moment That's good Look you know year 9 programs Let's talk year 9 programs for a second

[00:37:41] So year 9, year 8 So this is 14, 15 year old kids They're the hardest of the teenage years As they say because of that transition Puberty is kicking in They're learning all about this They're so close to adulthood they can sniff it But they're not yet, they're still a kid

[00:37:57] In so many ways And yet they are so capable And a year 9 program It's typically the most molly coddled You know we don't want to fracture this very This egg We've got this very fragile young human That's about to be an adult

[00:38:13] And we don't want to cock up And meanwhile they're the ones that are most capable Of being a fighter pilot Or the next entrepreneur You know they've got such vibrancy And as a 14, 15 year old We just got to let them do their thing

[00:38:27] More you know and trust them I like that And I mean I know we're both guys that don't have those kids yet But I think it's just such a great policy I hope I still think the same thing when we get there

[00:38:37] I know I'm sure there's parents of teenagers Going look easier said than done But I I can feel it in myself all the time Like I'm definitely guilty of not Providing enough trust And I reckon that causes a distance And a friction So You're someone that has spent

[00:38:57] Their life around adventure You did a PhD Was it the stages of The learning stages of adventures Learning cycles of expeditions Which I know we were joking about before As we were just having a cup of coffee And we were like oh you know

[00:39:13] I think one of your crews said it's not a great read I'd actually be fascinated to read that There's some moments in it that are quite Informative and the rest is like what is this bloke on? If you could boil that down though I mean the guy actually

[00:39:25] Really interested that there is a science To the learning cycles of expeditions Is there a simple Way that parents listening could go Alright if you want to go on an expedition with your kid Be it an afternoon A long day, an overnighter

[00:39:39] Whatever you want to do as an expedition Because even just being out here There's that feeling of being like gee we don't do this enough We do it a bit but you can always do more What are the key, is there such a thing

[00:39:49] Where there are some key things That that expedition, if that expedition has those Ingredients You've got a good chance of a great learning Experience for everyone involved Yeah so what I, the two key things That I put into my expeditionary model

[00:40:05] Were reflection within and now this is for Adult learning or for adult expeditioners Or for you know hard-nosed people That are doing higher end stuff Less about students But then you can always boil down these Higher end things for an eight year old

[00:40:19] That goes from walk around the block Awesome Go hard at some physical stuff You know really grid it out And there's sweat involved and there's Some manicness and there's some distance And time and then in between that And maybe the next bout of it Is just chilling out

[00:40:37] And really locking down Where you go, how far you go What you do because it's sort of Forced reflection and forced rest And you know what Everything just has a bit more meaning And potential if you just take some time Out in between some intensities

[00:40:53] So what nearly all the Cycles had Or the learning models and learning cycles Had they keep progressing Skill sets and meaning And all this sort of whatever But they only had reflection at the end And chilling out at the end To think back what took place

[00:41:11] What if you think about What's taking place within it Is that why you got us to stop Every hour on the way Just to do something That's like circuit breakers Yeah absolutely So just to fill people in As we picked up our first clue box

[00:41:29] We were delivered it from Beau yesterday And the car trip was at 5 past the hour And every hour you got to stop Get out of the car, stretch and high five Sometimes we got, you know Sometimes there was a fuel stop

[00:41:41] But other times we were on the side of a highway Just through a town And even though it was a little bit confusing The kids are like what are we doing stretching out I had made the drive a lot safer probably Because I was getting out and stretching

[00:41:53] But we loved it because We'd stop at places we wouldn't normally stop High fiving 30 seconds just to get their energy out I love it! And stopped any backseat car parts But again, it wouldn't exist If you hadn't said that If you hadn't given it those circuit breakers

[00:42:10] Those moments to reflect I think that's fascinating Yeah it's fun, I do it at the office now You know, some films are really easy to make Some films write themselves in terms of their narrative Some are really hard And the hard ones I gotta go for a run

[00:42:24] So I'll run around the block It's just really good, it's just a physical circuit breaker And rest can do the same thing Just change it up Do something completely opposite to what you're doing And it's amazing what revelations come from it

[00:42:36] Because one thing that pops up a little bit In this podcast and I'd say if there was a Cause or a philosophy That I would be particularly passionate about Or I always find my mind coming back to It's effort, right? Like in all its forms

[00:42:51] I'm always intrigued and amazed And a bit in love with the effect That effort has Cause it's just that thing of like a little 5% Extra effort Before the journey Or during the journey Or even if it's attentionary effort Where you just stop and make the effort to reflect

[00:43:09] That is the stuff that you remember Like that's the stuff that You know, so many things on the journey Like your effort of just going hey stop every hour They wouldn't exist if you didn't say that And I think I particularly love this

[00:43:22] Because it's another just a great reminder to go A little bit of effort goes such a long way Particularly when you're doing these little adventures With your kids Rather than just like bundling to get out the door If you can have A little something for later at night

[00:43:36] Or you've gone oh you know When we get to point A we'll do this and point B We have a map and we have The things you left in your clue boxes The effort, it's the special source Well they're cheap and they're free

[00:43:48] And you can just make it up And the wacky are the better kids And they just I was a really fun 20 year old university I was really fun, I didn't have ambition then too And I categorically didn't I was kind of aimless

[00:44:04] I was a good worker, I had discipline But I didn't have ambition And I was really fun And I hit 30 and I realised I spent many years not being that fun dude again What do you think it went? I don't know I mean there's lots of reasons

[00:44:22] But now it's a 40 something Early 40s I'm trying to get back to the Almost And as a parent Try and be fun again, try and be fun as a parent And try and be that Throw ambition out the, you know Careers out the door

[00:44:38] Throw all that crap out the door and just go back to having fun And having fun is either Really easy or really hard work So you've got to make the time to do it This is made I reckon you're onto something really Universal

[00:44:52] I might be generalising a bit By saying here for blokes But for guys to have that feeling To go, I reckon at Late at night and I definitely I've been finding this in myself too Where you go, hang on a sec What's this

[00:45:08] What's this tone coming out of my mouth And what's this thing that's filling my days in my head I used to be really fun And I have that feeling sometimes too So strategy wise Do you have things that help you

[00:45:20] Get back there or help you reset or remind yourself Well this adventure stick tries to do that Because I genuinely There were some moments today that were genuinely fun You know when May Has got a shoulder of a sheep bone And she's using it

[00:45:36] And she's licking the sides of it And she's tapping, making music out of it I think that's really fun, you know Imagine us doing that Imagine us going and finding a roubone And kind of licking it and making music out of it And you think, it's just

[00:45:50] It's taking yourself a little less seriously Because if there's one thing Us mid-career, early career Whatever career people do Is we tend to take our craft pretty seriously Even if it isn't a fun way We're trying to be good at it Which means often taking it seriously

[00:46:06] And I'm not sure that's always the best methodology I couldn't agree more And the double, the extra weird Meta bit for me is Sometimes, you know, we have fun jobs Like even if it's like I do a TV show about Lego

[00:46:20] But you're taking it seriously and you're like How does this work? You've just landed your bloody dream job Make it the dream job A TV show about Making Lego Become serious and create a serious day It should just be shits and giggles Yes, that is brilliant

[00:46:38] I mean yes We're living that metaphor right now And if something like presenting this Awesome fun thing of people making Amazing Lego Becomes less than that Something's gone horribly wrong But you know what, not taking it so seriously I reckon is a really good Talk about circuit breakers

[00:46:58] That's another great circuit breaker You've got another circuit breaker in front of you You've got a low roof If we were here for much longer That's the best drinking water going round We should be getting it, hey, it's pretty fresh I mean, I feel like I'm doing

[00:47:13] An episode of alone If you didn't have kids, do you reckon You'd be great at that TV show? Well, my wife made me apply last year And I got close To being in the first series But I'm so glad I didn't do it

[00:47:27] Because there's one thing they don't have Is fun out there You talk about bang for buck Some of the likes watching your gear That's a long time to spend out there For a couple of days to create a small amount of content

[00:47:39] I think you do a lot better Getting 15 minutes out of one day Well, yeah, Africa was five months And years in the planning And it ended up being a 45 minute doco From 20 hours worth of tape stock Whereas we now, I mean this film will be 20 minutes

[00:47:53] What we're part of now And it's a couple of days on the road with your best mates You're in a better zone You're in a better zone Love, Chiya, I think that's great Takeaways for adventure If you're not a little too serious Find something that's physically taxing

[00:48:09] But has moments of reflection But doesn't take itself too seriously And I think to, you know, we're out here with little kids And people listening will have kids of all various ages Would you say a really important part is Finding the physical Level

[00:48:23] For the kids that's just that kind of two or three percent Beyond maybe where they thought they were capable Yeah, well, she made it her first 3K bush walk last week And she was at her raggedy end At the last couple of hundred metres

[00:48:35] But it was so nice to see and you helped me through that last little bit I'm really cautious about the physical thing Too, because I just don't know, hey I don't quite know what kids are capable of More adults, I suppose

[00:48:47] So I don't know, I'm learning on my feet there With how much there they can do I don't know if there's any science to our one But G. We had a fascinating... I had a really interesting case study today too

[00:48:57] Because I didn't know how far we'd be going So I loved that side Of the adventure too Even though I knew it couldn't be You're not going to make us go that far Because you know I've got an eight and a five year old with me

[00:49:09] But the endings are known The terrain was unknown I had a hunch because you'd left some waterproof stuff That we'd be getting on a boat at some stage But we had a hike ahead of us So I had a really interesting moment

[00:49:21] Where, you know, with my little boy I had a wheelbarrow and a gorilla wagon That I... because I had a low kit To bring in the podcasting stuff I was set up to go, okay If I have to drag one child And push the other

[00:49:35] Just to get us here, I can do that It's not my ideal But if they're calling it out there And they're like, hey dad, we're done The show's going to go on So I'm like alright, I'll tie the wagon to my pack I'll move the wheelbarrow

[00:49:49] And it's sort of funny, I was saying to Timmy before I was like... Because we were set up for that contingency I might just have to Sledge and move both kids My little boy He saw it, we practised a little bit

[00:50:03] And he was like, yeah this is great This is the life, I'll just go on the wagon And I was like alright, you know, I think I can get this done But here we go, I think once that penny

[00:50:11] Dropped for him, he was like, oh hang on a sec I could also be part of this And I could do something physically hard Much to my incredible Gratitude and pride He wouldn't let go of the wagon He was just huffing it up hills

[00:50:25] And it was this amazing We had this amazing team effort To get all the gear here But I reckon if I'd said to him You have to drag the wagon Yeah, it would have been I'm not doing it, we would have had a real

[00:50:39] I don't know what the science is behind that But it was sort of because it wasn't Maybe it's what we're talking about space Because the space was there for him to go I'll help He stepped into the space But if I'd gone, you have to

[00:50:53] There would have been a friction It would have made it less fun It was a great learning And then he got a paddle too So he came across And you guys were steaming along And he's paddling away and you haven't done a lot

[00:51:07] Of canoeing, but you guys were just killing it It was really good to see By accident or by design A beautiful space That you created That the kids could step into And then really mother of god was like Steps, that's it That's where we're starting from

[00:51:25] Cut to a few k's later She was running up hills in front of us too It was a great reminder of going You just got to get going I almost think as we stumble upon A new hypothesis here Be prepared for the last effort scenario Get going

[00:51:41] And then from there we saw everyone Left and have a ball We're good at fixing stuff humans And when you come in with fixes You don't have to catch yourself Or we shouldn't fix it or bail out Just now And resign to the fact that

[00:51:57] I don't know all the answers It's getting it Oh well done I mean I'm genuinely loving this But I'm aware that night is falling We haven't put up our tents yet Can we finish with a bow miles Gold standard piece of dating

[00:52:13] Something where you look at another dad Or you've seen another example of dating What's the way to do it? Well I... He's not a dad and I don't think he's going to be a dad He might be actually I haven't seen him for 10 or 12 years

[00:52:27] But when I first started out at summer camp This bloke named Tate If you ever listen to this Big hats off to you Because we worked together for years And he was the king of the kids You know how there's someone that's always

[00:52:41] Either on school camp or a teacher Or wherever Because they do wacky things They sing, they have a gravity This guy had a gravity about him And one of the things he always did He'd take hikes and trips off The summer camp

[00:52:57] But one of his things, he probably couldn't even do it now But one of the things he did That I always remembered And kids would always talk about it For a decade after he left Was that he would never start Or leave a trip off camp

[00:53:11] Without a kid having to get on Rolling He always did rolling starts And rolling finishes So you'd see him creeping up the driveway And just these kids one at a time Piling out of this moving bus And he'd go and park it

[00:53:27] And the kids are just thinking life is the best thing ever And the same for when he left He'd park in the driveway He'd have these 10 kids lined up And he'd start and one would pile on And one, the next one

[00:53:39] All the way out to see them off And he'd go Just this little sense of fun And this little rule that he created That was so aspirational Kids loved it And the rest of his teaching And the rest of his thing was like that

[00:53:55] He was just, and I think If you can have lots of those take things in your life as a parent Then you're doing alright You're doing good I love it And I can see why I inspired you too Because I think that's a perfect way to sum up

[00:54:09] With what you do in your movies The little things are the big things They're not hard, they just require that tiny bit of effort But the little sparks They're kind of what it's like Well I think you're doing a good job mate

[00:54:21] I like the cut of your kids' jib In the last couple of hours We've got a little bit of dwindling light here Painting the picture, Hane We're looking at over a big lake In the middle of the New South Wales high plains And yeah it's bollocking rain

[00:54:35] And we're about to lose sunlight And we've got some tents to put up And then a lot of children to feed Tim's brought three of his What you couldn't see happening with the fire Was real What was happening? We're just a lot of waving of hot coals

[00:54:51] And you guys are talking about appropriate risk Taking trust and I'm like gritting my teeth We have got We are meters away from several eyeballs being burnt But did they get burnt to him? They didn't Just enough Thanks for having me on mate

[00:55:07] This has been grass, what an adventure You're a total legend mate, thank you so much For giving us this adventure and what we've got ahead of us tonight The one thing that we do love to do On the pod where circumstances permit Is finish with

[00:55:19] Some of the whiskey that I got Barrelled for some when he was born The Sullivan's Cove Now you left me a jam jar in the gear that you left I've actually got it in a flask I've got it in a cup of flask So

[00:55:33] This is a live dad decision Do we have the whiskey now and lose light Or should we put up the tents and then we have a drink I would put up the tents Because I love it The nice cap idea of that is very Very appealing isn't it

[00:55:47] I'd cross the mainland right now to get a little nipper Whatever the hell you've got Yeah let's put up a tent Yeah I think there's about 40mm of rain coming too So we better get these debts up Thank you so much for being here Thanks mate

[00:56:03] I'm gonna do another dad Now he's gonna say some other stuff But he will be by himself So much fun getting to do that With Bo, that Avenger Man Just listening to that brings me so many smiles back to my Face because you know

[00:56:17] For me and my two kids That was just such an epic Avenger Of course like really lucky to have a guy like Bo Just you know kind of Be the master of that Avenger And leave us clues and things like that

[00:56:29] But there was a few months ago we did that now Still talk a lot Like regularly about Oh you remember when we went camping with Bo We did this, we found these Bones, we manned that night And the tent was freezing There was some

[00:56:45] At the time a 5 and a 9 year old There was a febrile of hardship faced And a 41 year old in myself And we had the best time Doing it, there was a lot of laughs A lot of moments we were like okay we're freezing But really so grateful to

[00:56:59] The Taiwanese crew for the effort They went to do that But it was sort of that I think what makes them such amazing people Was that unquestioning effort It always seemed a bit confusing We were like guys thank you so much for going to all this effort

[00:57:13] And they were just like well you know This is just how to live in Bo's world And I find that pretty inspiring And quite infectious too So I really hope you Gavoured something from that and got something from that chat

[00:57:25] I mean I obviously did because we got to live it And we had a lot of experience But man I really love I love just how honest Bo is Because he's sitting there and he's You know he's really honest about I love that aspect of him going

[00:57:39] Okay these are some areas I reckon I could do better And I think we all feel that We all feel it all the time That was I give myself a D For that aspect to it And I'm gonna try and do better So I'll you know

[00:57:53] I'm reinvigorated hearing that stuff And if you want to check him out please go to YouTube He's obviously well discovered on YouTube But if you haven't seen any of Bo's stuff They're great films And actually really fun to watch with kids My boy in particular loves

[00:58:07] Watching Bo films so Thank you guys a lot of fun And I also love that we did it Because you know personally for me I think it's worth doing those things in life Because you know sometimes just go the simple maths The alternative is not doing it

[00:58:21] And that's boring So thank you and I hope you get out there on your own adventures In your own way see you next time How are the dads dad This special episode Of how are the dads dad was produced by Tim Bartley And me Hamish With special thanks

[00:58:41] To our podcast haulage service Who were my kids And a little bit me too Even more special thanks to Bo Mitch and Jody their amazing team And the gang for putting the adventure together And for making us Delicious hot soup and damper When everyone was basically just frozen

[00:58:59] In the cold. Fee music As always is by the wonderful And very talented Tom Cardi We recorded this episode in the gorgeous Mountain Country of the Narragu people And we pay our respects to them If you want to drop us a line Head to howarethedadsdad.com

[00:59:15] And as always thanks For watching And for some of them to talk to him So he can find out How are the dads dad