How Craig Foster Dads

[00:00:00] Hello, How Other Dads Dad is proudly brought to you by Hertz

[00:00:04] Hertz, Hertz, Hertz

[00:00:06] Hertz, do do do do do do

[00:00:08] Making life better through the rental of exceptional cars

[00:00:12] and Elite Customer Service

[00:00:14] Use the app

[00:00:16] Or give us a call or go on the website

[00:00:18] or see us at the airport

[00:00:20] We're just the best car rental guys

[00:00:22] Hertz

[00:00:24] Okay we'll probably do the song again

[00:00:26] but all the information is correct

[00:00:28] We do thank Hertz for supporting How Other Dads Dad

[00:00:30] Um, be a proy retire

[00:00:32] It will retire the song

[00:00:34] I mean it was just a first draft making up as I go along

[00:00:36] but um, I don't

[00:00:38] I think take the info from that

[00:00:40] Just don't take the delivery format

[00:00:42] Let's get into the show

[00:00:59] How Other Dads Dad

[00:01:03] This episode we have got

[00:01:05] Craig Foster

[00:01:07] who if you're familiar

[00:01:09] with the soccer

[00:01:11] football community in Australia

[00:01:13] you would absolutely know who Craig Foster is

[00:01:15] he's a former soccer ruer

[00:01:17] he's now commentates and

[00:01:19] has a huge role of coaching and developing

[00:01:21] younger kids and

[00:01:23] players in community

[00:01:25] but you'd also quite likely

[00:01:27] have a great role of Craig Foster for his social justice work

[00:01:29] he's a really

[00:01:31] incredibly thoughtful and intelligent

[00:01:33] and compassionate voice

[00:01:35] I think in that space and has done some

[00:01:37] wonderful things and I think has shown a great

[00:01:39] example

[00:01:41] of courageous leadership

[00:01:43] for various issues

[00:01:45] Obviously that's someone I look to and go

[00:01:47] this is the impressive man, I could learn a lot

[00:01:49] talking to him and hopefully we could all

[00:01:51] learn a lot

[00:01:53] It's worth noting before we get into today's chat

[00:01:55] we cover some really important areas

[00:01:57] but I think it does

[00:01:59] come up that he

[00:02:01] won Father of the Year

[00:02:03] Now we recorded this in about

[00:02:05] I think it was about May

[00:02:07] something along those lines

[00:02:09] so people may have been

[00:02:11] across the fact that I actually

[00:02:13] went through the same process

[00:02:15] a little later in the year but obviously this was recorded before that

[00:02:17] so this isn't just me baiting

[00:02:19] him going let's talk about Father of the Year

[00:02:21] I had no idea that was coming up

[00:02:23] I really like

[00:02:25] and agree with his sentiments that he has

[00:02:27] on the concept of

[00:02:29] you know we all know it's a little bit of

[00:02:31] a strange idea because obviously it's not something

[00:02:33] you can win being a dad

[00:02:35] but what to you know why there is

[00:02:37] good in it and how to use it for advocacy

[00:02:39] and that's something that he puts

[00:02:41] far more eloquently than I

[00:02:43] this is a really

[00:02:45] deep and interesting chat

[00:02:47] I really learn a lot and

[00:02:49] gained a lot too from someone that is

[00:02:51] deeply involved

[00:02:53] in making his community

[00:02:55] better through

[00:02:57] not just being a dad but being a father figure

[00:02:59] through coaching and

[00:03:01] mentoring and the work that he does

[00:03:03] in his community especially

[00:03:05] interfaith and intercultural stuff

[00:03:07] he talks really well about that in this podcast

[00:03:09] and you know I reckon

[00:03:11] there's just so much to be gained from that

[00:03:13] so let's ramble more Craig Foster

[00:03:15] let's find out how Craig Foster dads

[00:03:21] how are the dads

[00:03:23] how are the dads

[00:03:25] Craig Foster welcome

[00:03:27] Have we met? I don't know

[00:03:29] we might have met at the logeys

[00:03:31] you normally have winning stuff

[00:03:33] and I'm sitting in the back corner with SBS

[00:03:35] you're on the trestle table

[00:03:37] well I actually don't think we have met

[00:03:39] but I've been a fan of yours for a long time

[00:03:41] so I appreciate this and you didn't disappoint

[00:03:43] when you rocked in I hope this isn't sharing too much

[00:03:45] with a surfboard and a vespair homodon

[00:03:47] like man

[00:03:49] I'm not even Bondi so I'm heading down for a surf

[00:03:51] you're living the

[00:03:53] you're a walk in the wall

[00:03:55] I try to get out every opportunity I possibly can

[00:03:57] do you get out every day?

[00:03:59] I don't get out every day

[00:04:01] no we have a bit of travel and stuff

[00:04:03] but I try to get out at least 3-4 days a week

[00:04:05] is that your main sort of fitness thing

[00:04:07] that you do? yeah I'm getting on now

[00:04:09] 53 that knees aren't too good

[00:04:11] I still play football in the over 35s

[00:04:13] here in the east suburb of Sydney

[00:04:15] do you reel it really over 35

[00:04:17] I know

[00:04:19] nearly 20 years and everyone

[00:04:21] that's a lot of fun but I can't do it too much

[00:04:23] so I do it for exercise

[00:04:25] but it's also just Zen

[00:04:27] just nice to be out in the water

[00:04:29] you're in great meek

[00:04:31] this is not what I plan to take to those conversations

[00:04:33] but I mean that is

[00:04:35] you do see some professional athletes

[00:04:37] they obviously stop playing and once they're out of that structured program

[00:04:39] their bodies

[00:04:41] change a lot

[00:04:43] is that something that was always mentally important to you?

[00:04:45] my experience of being a professional athlete

[00:04:47] was that you come to

[00:04:49] understand food as a fuel

[00:04:51] and so when I stopped

[00:04:53] it just made sense to me

[00:04:55] that I didn't need all these massive carbohydrates anymore

[00:04:57] because I'd just been running

[00:04:59] 15k's a day

[00:05:01] and also became

[00:05:03] a pescetarian

[00:05:05] and got off the meat

[00:05:07] got off all that stuff

[00:05:09] which was great much more healthy

[00:05:11] much more energy

[00:05:13] and I get out in the surf

[00:05:15] as much as I possibly can

[00:05:17] that diet is always the thing

[00:05:19] that I know I've got to get round to doing

[00:05:21] because that's always the Mediterranean one

[00:05:23] these are the people that live too

[00:05:25] 110

[00:05:26] so great

[00:05:27] but a few of my friends including Les Murray

[00:05:29] who you would have known

[00:05:31] they passed away from cancer

[00:05:33] and that was one of the key factors

[00:05:35] as you were aging just to go, alright

[00:05:37] meat?

[00:05:39] both he and Johnny Warren

[00:05:41] they were from the football community

[00:05:43] they had similar issues

[00:05:45] and I went with them to the specialists

[00:05:47] when they were going through

[00:05:49] that process and that was one of the

[00:05:51] advice they got so it didn't take me long

[00:05:53] to say, oh okay I need to get away from that

[00:05:55] yeah man, awesome well again

[00:05:57] you're a great testament to that

[00:05:59] mate thank you for doing this

[00:06:01] let's start with your dad's stats

[00:06:03] as in how many children do you have

[00:06:05] how old are they?

[00:06:07] yeah so I've got three

[00:06:09] my daughter's 24

[00:06:11] and I've got a third child

[00:06:13] a daughter who is currently

[00:06:15] six-danged in year 11

[00:06:17] alright so there's a 10 year span

[00:06:19] do you find the changes a lot?

[00:06:21] obviously the 10 years ago

[00:06:23] you had a 16 year old

[00:06:25] now you have a 16 year old

[00:06:27] is the advice you're giving today a 16 year old

[00:06:29] a different situation than what's 10 years ago

[00:06:31] yeah I think that's natural

[00:06:33] all of us with our first child

[00:06:35] many first children

[00:06:37] my older brother, I'm the middle of three

[00:06:39] my older brother would say that he

[00:06:41] kind of copped it worse

[00:06:43] yeah that is generally the thing

[00:06:45] they're the ice breaker

[00:06:47] that's right and I think they are

[00:06:49] in many respects because we're really working it out

[00:06:51] and your first child

[00:06:53] of two or three or four

[00:06:55] tends to be when you're a fair bit younger as well

[00:06:57] so we're still all discovering our career

[00:06:59] we're having to build

[00:07:01] whatever it is that you think is important in life

[00:07:03] alongside family

[00:07:05] and therefore they also

[00:07:07] I think get caught up more in that

[00:07:09] so being 53

[00:07:11] and having now the third child

[00:07:13] just coming through the later years of school

[00:07:15] this is the third time we've been through it

[00:07:17] we know, so our advice to her is different

[00:07:19] we might be able to find

[00:07:21] more time ourselves because of

[00:07:23] the stage of life that we're in

[00:07:25] so we learn as we go

[00:07:29] and just try and improve along the way

[00:07:31] what would you say

[00:07:33] I mean you don't have to go into specifics here but

[00:07:35] is a priority now for your current 16 year old

[00:07:37] as opposed to

[00:07:39] and was that different than when your 26 year old

[00:07:41] was 16, like what sort of things

[00:07:43] are you prioritising now to give them

[00:07:45] yeah so we're also a blended family

[00:07:47] and so

[00:07:49] our third child

[00:07:51] is Lara my wife's

[00:07:53] only child

[00:07:55] and so therefore

[00:07:57] like many of your listeners

[00:07:59] that brings its own set of circumstances

[00:08:01] and the reason I mention that

[00:08:03] is because

[00:08:05] different people

[00:08:07] Lara as a mother

[00:08:09] is very much focused on different areas

[00:08:11] to what I was also

[00:08:13] 20 years ago

[00:08:15] and so education for her

[00:08:17] is extremely important

[00:08:19] and that was a big part

[00:08:21] of her upbringing

[00:08:23] therefore there's a very strong focus on that

[00:08:27] which is much stronger than

[00:08:29] for our two elder children

[00:08:31] for example of course it was always important

[00:08:33] but you know it's really central now

[00:08:35] and so there's many reasons as we go through life

[00:08:37] that the focus and the emphasis changes

[00:08:39] you know that's one of them

[00:08:41] and as I said before I think we just

[00:08:43] as we become

[00:08:45] wiser and older

[00:08:47] we also participate

[00:08:49] in different areas of society

[00:08:51] and we come to understand perhaps

[00:08:53] the way things operate better

[00:08:55] that allows us to think more deeply about them

[00:08:57] and challenge some aspects of them

[00:08:59] but also understand how to guide our child

[00:09:01] to be able to get through

[00:09:03] those hurdles that

[00:09:05] everyone ultimately faces

[00:09:07] absolutely I think you raise an interesting point

[00:09:09] which I find myself in my marriage

[00:09:11] and I know talking to mates

[00:09:13] as your kids get older and you

[00:09:15] you hit issue

[00:09:17] not issues but areas like education

[00:09:19] we're like oh we have differing ideas on this

[00:09:21] so much of it

[00:09:23] I find when you're in when you're parenting

[00:09:25] in a relationship

[00:09:27] is that dance about going

[00:09:29] you care about this

[00:09:31] I have a different level of

[00:09:33] interest and it's that push pull

[00:09:35] how important is that

[00:09:37] to get that right do you think with your partner

[00:09:39] well you know that basically

[00:09:41] is marriage you know

[00:09:43] and so

[00:09:45] I think the underlying

[00:09:47] principle

[00:09:49] or the question to ask

[00:09:51] is you know how important are your children

[00:09:53] to you

[00:09:55] I think we all even if we don't ask ourselves

[00:09:57] that we're ultimately demonstrating

[00:09:59] that every day and that gets tested

[00:10:01] from time to time that's interesting so

[00:10:03] in what way would you say

[00:10:05] that we're showing that each day

[00:10:07] so

[00:10:09] to Lara and myself our children

[00:10:11] are by far the most important thing

[00:10:13] in our life and so

[00:10:15] that's part of our relationship

[00:10:17] and marriage is that

[00:10:19] you know we're just

[00:10:21] that's one of the areas I guess where we

[00:10:23] which brought us together one of many things

[00:10:25] but it was certainly one area where

[00:10:27] we're very much in tink on that and so

[00:10:29] you know there's no

[00:10:31] sacrifice or there's no commitment

[00:10:33] or there's no action

[00:10:35] that we wouldn't take if we think that

[00:10:37] it's in there and everyone around them

[00:10:39] is best interest

[00:10:41] and therefore they're very much central to our life

[00:10:43] you know we're not

[00:10:45] and I've never been someone who

[00:10:47] is seeking to run off

[00:10:49] and do extraordinary things

[00:10:51] and a family is an adjunct

[00:10:53] it's very much that the family

[00:10:55] is our life family friends

[00:10:57] and then everything else

[00:10:59] just kind of comes out of that

[00:11:01] but it has to very much be

[00:11:03] part of that construct I think

[00:11:05] that's interesting I think a lot of people would say that

[00:11:07] of course like kids are most important thing

[00:11:09] but the question of sacrifice is

[00:11:11] that's sort of where the rubber meets the road

[00:11:13] that's where you find out

[00:11:15] you know that old adage of

[00:11:17] like on a not sort of show me your calendar

[00:11:19] and I'll tell you what's important to you

[00:11:21] because it is that's how you spend your time

[00:11:23] yeah that's totally right and when it comes to work

[00:11:25] you know we've had I mean I used to live

[00:11:27] abroad playing professional sport

[00:11:29] but we've been here now for

[00:11:31] over 20 years and

[00:11:33] many opportunities to move abroad

[00:11:35] really quite exciting opportunities

[00:11:37] but we make the decision to stay here

[00:11:39] and that's simply because

[00:11:41] we always try to put them

[00:11:43] central to what we do

[00:11:45] and build our any

[00:11:47] I mean I travel around Australia quite a bit

[00:11:49] not so much international these days

[00:11:51] but try and build that around those commitments

[00:11:53] and so there's nothing I love more

[00:11:55] you know as all children do

[00:11:57] but at 16 my daughter rolls her eyes

[00:11:59] but secretly she loves it

[00:12:01] because her dad just loves on Saturday morning

[00:12:03] to take her to sport

[00:12:05] in fact the further the tennis or the football

[00:12:07] or the hockey is away the happier I am

[00:12:09] Charlie's got tennis

[00:12:11] we're playing at Alice Springs this weekend

[00:12:13] so the furthest is down

[00:12:15] you know in barrel

[00:12:17] geez that is

[00:12:19] yeah now 20 hour 30

[00:12:21] and I love it

[00:12:23] get in she's on her L plates

[00:12:25] now so you know

[00:12:27] I can pretend that I know what I'm doing

[00:12:29] and help her a little bit but you know it's just such a great

[00:12:31] every dad knows that those times

[00:12:33] when you're just free

[00:12:35] you can just chat listen to their music

[00:12:37] joke about what they want to joke about

[00:12:39] they're very very special moments

[00:12:41] especially when you're at our age and your children are

[00:12:43] already growing or grown up

[00:12:45] I think man I mean I think it's one of

[00:12:47] the things it's simple

[00:12:49] to say and it sounds effortless but it's

[00:12:51] not it's like that is

[00:12:53] as you said that's not just a

[00:12:55] happenstance that's something that

[00:12:57] to her would probably feel effortless

[00:12:59] like oh that's just dad driving me to tennis

[00:13:01] which I would have thought at 16

[00:13:03] but it's so much bigger for you

[00:13:05] huge yeah it's huge for dad but I joke with her about it

[00:13:07] you know and so we call it daddy

[00:13:09] daughter time you know and now that she's

[00:13:11] driving it's daddy daughter driving

[00:13:13] time right and so

[00:13:15] she knows that you know we're going to

[00:13:17] have a chat she knows that she has to

[00:13:19] open up a little bit about what's happening at school

[00:13:21] because we don't get a lot of time to do that and she'll do that more with the mum

[00:13:23] yeah how do you find that goes

[00:13:25] with any teenager in general

[00:13:27] you know because I know you're

[00:13:29] something that spends a lot of time too with kids of that age

[00:13:31] like coaching and mentoring

[00:13:33] is it the art

[00:13:35] of allowing space for

[00:13:37] it to come up what are some of the things that you use

[00:13:39] to allow to bubble up

[00:13:41] it's tough I mean and teenagers

[00:13:43] are kind of seen as

[00:13:45] as bottled up

[00:13:47] and you know

[00:13:49] not so interested in their parents in the mid teens

[00:13:51] and late teens you know probably for

[00:13:53] good reason I'm not a child psychologist but

[00:13:55] I've had three children and during

[00:13:57] that period of course their interest moves into

[00:13:59] other areas and so it's not just their parents

[00:14:01] and you know and it's

[00:14:03] school and it's the issues that they have

[00:14:05] with friendships

[00:14:07] and discovering their own relationships

[00:14:09] you know with boys

[00:14:11] or girls so

[00:14:13] we start to kind of become a little bit peripheral

[00:14:15] and you know all of us

[00:14:17] will kind of go into environments

[00:14:19] or homes where you can

[00:14:21] sense immediately that there's just this amazing

[00:14:23] relationship between the parents

[00:14:25] and the kids you know

[00:14:27] and

[00:14:29] you know and we love to see it

[00:14:31] and I think we're all trying to create that

[00:14:33] I agree. It's a journey it's not

[00:14:35] easy

[00:14:37] ultimately the way I approach it

[00:14:39] is that as long as the kids know that

[00:14:41] they're unconditionally loved

[00:14:43] and that we would do anything for them

[00:14:45] then we've got a good

[00:14:47] platform to go somewhere

[00:14:49] my wife is much

[00:14:51] more skilled at having conversations

[00:14:53] and pushes me to do

[00:14:55] so you know and to open up

[00:14:57] you know both between

[00:14:59] the two of us and also with the children

[00:15:01] so therefore she's just

[00:15:03] amazing part of that whole

[00:15:05] dynamic. She's your conversational coach

[00:15:07] yeah so she's a connecting

[00:15:09] person you know

[00:15:11] and so she just loves everyone

[00:15:13] and is that something that you don't feel

[00:15:15] that's in your wheelhouse?

[00:15:17] Well not in the way that she

[00:15:19] does. No I can

[00:15:21] start to have conversations and I'll be

[00:15:25] I kind of come if someone's

[00:15:27] in need

[00:15:29] and I can't help everything and there's nothing that I

[00:15:31] won't do. Gotcha

[00:15:33] but if kind of people are fine

[00:15:35] and I've got other things on my mind

[00:15:37] I'll be wondering I gotta go and do this

[00:15:39] and do that and do that whereas Lara's like

[00:15:41] you know what's going on here

[00:15:43] she'd happily sit on the phone

[00:15:45] for two hours

[00:15:47] my wife loves someone who

[00:15:49] someone will call from those things where they say

[00:15:51] we're just like talking about banking or something

[00:15:53] right? And she'll sit on the phone

[00:15:55] for two hours and I'll go

[00:15:57] no these people what are you doing

[00:15:59] just seriously we've got to go oh yeah

[00:16:01] but this is you know this is

[00:16:03] Jenny and Jenny's got this it's amazing

[00:16:05] we were talking about you know what's happening I don't know

[00:16:07] with whatever she's like that and so

[00:16:09] that certainly helps with the kids

[00:16:11] because she's constantly she creates an environment

[00:16:13] where conversation is important

[00:16:15] I love that. But what changes

[00:16:17] through different children I think

[00:16:19] maturity is what conversations we want

[00:16:21] to have with our children and also

[00:16:23] society changes. Yeah

[00:16:25] so we've got to have more challenging conversations

[00:16:27] today than we had to have 20 years ago

[00:16:29] Yeah 100% I mean

[00:16:31] it's a bizarrely different world

[00:16:33] it is. Do you sometimes feel

[00:16:35] I mean you know you're a 53 year old

[00:16:37] 16 year old child

[00:16:39] what is going on in the 16 year old's world

[00:16:41] like I mean in terms of like whatever

[00:16:43] social media, social stuff

[00:16:45] do you feel like you have some sort of read

[00:16:47] on it or does it feel confusing

[00:16:49] Oh it's always confusing because it moves

[00:16:51] quickly and you know

[00:16:53] we try and keep that communication open

[00:16:55] you know and now we're coming into

[00:16:57] 1617 which is about

[00:16:59] now going trying to balance parties

[00:17:01] and friendships we

[00:17:03] friendships and academia with

[00:17:05] parties. Yeah

[00:17:07] And I come from the country up in Lismore

[00:17:09] and so we were

[00:17:11] pretty free and

[00:17:13] we were probably rap bags in many ways

[00:17:15] you know we just we were up near the beach

[00:17:17] we were out there and so you know we were

[00:17:19] having a beer at a pretty young age

[00:17:21] and we you know it was very safe environment

[00:17:23] whereas today that's very different

[00:17:25] so now

[00:17:27] we know for a fact that if she's going to go to parties

[00:17:29] there are drugs there

[00:17:31] there's some information that comes through

[00:17:33] the school system which I find really

[00:17:35] important and powerful. Look all the

[00:17:37] parents need to be aware of this

[00:17:39] this stuff is happening online now and this is what

[00:17:41] we're hearing and that's important

[00:17:43] It's scary isn't it? It is scary

[00:17:45] because it's a giant unknown and I always remember

[00:17:47] when I was a teenager I was like

[00:17:49] I felt I was like man my parents have no idea

[00:17:51] what's going on like in my world

[00:17:53] and I was like I won't I'm gonna

[00:17:55] I promise like when I grow up I'm gonna be

[00:17:57] across I'm gonna stay I can't

[00:17:59] ever see myself not understanding how a 16 year old

[00:18:01] and then you get like sort of into your

[00:18:03] just feel it start slipping away and you're like

[00:18:05] twins. You don't get the

[00:18:07] thread back. It's moving so quickly

[00:18:09] so you know there's there are some

[00:18:11] dangers so the thing is you want them to have

[00:18:13] freedom and you want them to

[00:18:15] develop responsibility but at the same

[00:18:17] time be protective and that was the

[00:18:19] environment I came out of

[00:18:21] and what I've tried to do. I must admit

[00:18:23] I've been much more protective of my two daughters

[00:18:27] than what I was of my son

[00:18:29] whilst I was always there

[00:18:31] you know when my when our second

[00:18:33] child but my first daughter came through

[00:18:35] and started going to parties and so on

[00:18:37] I was I was always around

[00:18:39] We laugh about it today

[00:18:41] but I was always around. Is that old guy in the

[00:18:43] backwards cap in the corner?

[00:18:45] Well seriously I mean her first

[00:18:47] school social or her school

[00:18:49] socials in like year 10 or something

[00:18:51] you know the parents would come to pick up at 11 o'clock

[00:18:53] at night and I'd be there at 10

[00:18:55] and I would be there and I would say

[00:18:57] to the principal yeah I'm just here everything

[00:18:59] okay you know and she

[00:19:01] and you know I'd make sure that she knew

[00:19:03] look daddy's gonna be here

[00:19:05] you know I might just stay the whole time outside

[00:19:07] doesn't matter but I'm around

[00:19:09] if there's any issues

[00:19:11] you know that you know so

[00:19:13] that kind of protective of instinct was very

[00:19:15] very strong. We might have already touched

[00:19:17] on it and I got a hunch and I know what one

[00:19:19] of them will be but

[00:19:21] I do I do ask before people

[00:19:23] come on like what are the three

[00:19:25] sort of core you had to boil it down

[00:19:27] to three core principles

[00:19:29] of parenting for your philosophy

[00:19:31] what would they be? Well

[00:19:33] I would just say the underlying thing is just

[00:19:35] absolute love and care for the children

[00:19:37] and perhaps second is sacrifice

[00:19:39] but they're basically the same thing

[00:19:41] and that's how I grew up

[00:19:43] I was gifted a wonderful

[00:19:45] childhood by very close family

[00:19:47] up in the country. Safety

[00:19:49] love wasn't love wasn't

[00:19:51] always expressed in those terms

[00:19:53] but what I knew is my father used to always

[00:19:55] say we had three boys so you know

[00:19:57] we were out at sport

[00:19:59] we were going away at sport we were

[00:20:01] at parties you know probably

[00:20:03] year seven, year eight, year nine

[00:20:05] and it was always doesn't

[00:20:07] matter what happens

[00:20:09] I will get you know you just let me know

[00:20:11] and I will come and get you anytime of the night

[00:20:13] and day wherever you are doesn't matter if you're in a different state

[00:20:15] right you know I'll get in the car

[00:20:17] and I will come and get you and there'll be no judgment

[00:20:19] we can talk about what happened later

[00:20:21] but you're never going to get in trouble

[00:20:23] by calling me

[00:20:25] and I can come and help you so if one

[00:20:27] of your friends is in trouble or something happened

[00:20:29] that you're not certain about you always

[00:20:31] just pick up the phone and you know

[00:20:33] that we're here at five in the morning four in the morning

[00:20:35] or whatever right? It's such a massive

[00:20:37] one it's something that you

[00:20:39] you know it's certainly a concept we've heard

[00:20:41] in different ways come up

[00:20:43] before on the podcast

[00:20:45] and to me I mean that is exactly as you say

[00:20:47] that's the evidence that sacrifice is love

[00:20:49] that's the language you were taught

[00:20:51] from your doubt obviously saying to you

[00:20:55] in that moment when you're in a

[00:20:57] when you need something nothing's too big

[00:20:59] and ask that's interesting because

[00:21:01] it's not specifically saying I love you but

[00:21:03] it is

[00:21:05] saying I love you it's saying to you

[00:21:07] that his time is

[00:21:09] not as important as your well-being

[00:21:11] that's right and then the sacrifice

[00:21:13] so I saw the picture of it

[00:21:15] and then of course you try

[00:21:17] and do better which probably means more

[00:21:19] open more open conversation

[00:21:21] you know and talking to aspects

[00:21:23] with the kids that we never really discussed

[00:21:25] so we didn't know about like brought up political

[00:21:27] civil society and these things

[00:21:29] and educating them in terms of social justice

[00:21:31] and those other issues which

[00:21:33] I saw in their actions

[00:21:35] but we never had

[00:21:37] that wasn't the thing you talked about growing up

[00:21:39] no so I had a lot of knowledge gaps

[00:21:41] I knew that injustice

[00:21:43] was something that triggered me

[00:21:45] but I wasn't quite sure where that injustice lay

[00:21:47] and so now

[00:21:49] it's become a big part of your life

[00:21:51] a huge part yeah

[00:21:53] do you know where it came from

[00:21:55] if it wasn't discussed growing up

[00:21:57] where did that come from?

[00:21:59] I don't know I think it was always just in there

[00:22:01] in the models as parents

[00:22:03] a

[00:22:05] determination around

[00:22:07] fairness and equality

[00:22:09] they didn't express it in those terms

[00:22:11] they could inherently see it

[00:22:13] so they would help people

[00:22:15] they were helpers? yeah they were helpers

[00:22:17] and they were community contributors

[00:22:19] so my father was

[00:22:21] always working mainly

[00:22:23] across sport but through sport

[00:22:25] everyone else always raising money

[00:22:27] always helping people that type of stuff

[00:22:29] and then it just morphs into

[00:22:31] I guess a more

[00:22:33] concrete form

[00:22:35] of understanding and being able to help

[00:22:37] it's interesting

[00:22:39] you said before you were sort of like

[00:22:41] your strength in the marriage

[00:22:43] is if you see someone in need

[00:22:45] you're 100% there

[00:22:47] obviously that's something you inherited from your dad

[00:22:49] that's his exact language

[00:22:51] who is if you're in need

[00:22:53] I'll be there and now that's

[00:22:55] very much could almost

[00:22:57] be the motto of the work

[00:22:59] that you do outside your family

[00:23:01] is if someone's in need

[00:23:03] you will be there

[00:23:05] to be that

[00:23:07] person to set that example

[00:23:09] do you teach that with the kids

[00:23:11] do you bring your kids along into that world

[00:23:13] how do you role model that with them?

[00:23:15] we have discussions around what it means

[00:23:17] they see it anyway

[00:23:19] and that's important

[00:23:21] and they see the discussions we have

[00:23:23] which very often is about

[00:23:25] receiving information about

[00:23:27] you know

[00:23:29] campaigns or protests

[00:23:31] or refugees who are in trouble

[00:23:33] and so it actually happens

[00:23:35] live within the family firstly

[00:23:37] and secondly we then just take the time

[00:23:39] to explain to them

[00:23:41] as much as possible what it's about

[00:23:43] why it's important

[00:23:45] and how they should keep it in mind

[00:23:47] what I want them to do is

[00:23:49] to be active social citizens

[00:23:51] and I want them to be good humans

[00:23:53] who care about injustice

[00:23:55] and about others

[00:23:57] and they certainly are that

[00:23:59] how they manifest that is completely up to them

[00:24:01] I kind of try

[00:24:03] and remain on first principles

[00:24:05] and saying this is what we want

[00:24:07] the type of person we want you to be

[00:24:09] and you can bring that to life in any way one

[00:24:11] that's really

[00:24:13] very wise and beautiful

[00:24:15] I reckon that's something a lot of us struggle with

[00:24:17] because

[00:24:19] let's say

[00:24:21] 10-15 years behind you on that journey

[00:24:23] with kids

[00:24:25] something I think about a lot is

[00:24:27] here's the principles I care about

[00:24:29] and here's the qualities I think make a good person

[00:24:31] and

[00:24:33] we're always trying to role model it

[00:24:35] we're always trying to talk to them about it

[00:24:37] I probably personally fall into the trap

[00:24:39] of getting frustrated

[00:24:41] I probably get too specific where I'm like

[00:24:43] no no this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about

[00:24:45] I reckon I battle staying at first principles

[00:24:47] did you ever have that

[00:24:49] I feel like as time goes on I keep learning

[00:24:51] that lesson over and over and over again until it sticks

[00:24:53] just to go

[00:24:55] you can't

[00:24:57] how old are your kids?

[00:24:59] 5 and 8

[00:25:01] so my daughter still refuses

[00:25:03] to go to the UN

[00:25:05] but it's just that thing of like I catch myself

[00:25:07] racing ahead

[00:25:09] into adult thinking

[00:25:11] and I just feel it I lose them

[00:25:13] and it's that thing of like trying to

[00:25:15] keep it appropriate as a concept

[00:25:17] at their age

[00:25:19] yeah let them be their age

[00:25:21] let them be their age

[00:25:23] and that's the

[00:25:25] we all when we are parents see new parents

[00:25:27] so I have a new parent

[00:25:29] who is who I work with at Stan Australia

[00:25:31] on our Champions League coverage

[00:25:33] which basically European club football

[00:25:35] and it's fantastic guys lovely human

[00:25:37] great human his name is Max Rushton

[00:25:39] and so Max

[00:25:41] he

[00:25:43] has a new child with his wife

[00:25:45] a new child

[00:25:47] is that the right terminology?

[00:25:49] sometimes we call babies

[00:25:51] like we're that factory fresh human

[00:25:53] exactly

[00:25:55] so about 6 months now probably

[00:25:57] and it's tough

[00:25:59] it's hard you know

[00:26:01] and all our experiences

[00:26:03] are very very different because

[00:26:05] the health factor plays such a part

[00:26:07] and we with all of our 3 children

[00:26:09] we were very fortunate

[00:26:11] we didn't have gastric

[00:26:13] sleeping issues

[00:26:15] we didn't have

[00:26:17] so when you have those

[00:26:19] types of things

[00:26:21] it puts real strain on everyone

[00:26:23] and it's difficult

[00:26:25] for them to believe

[00:26:27] but I just keep saying to him listen

[00:26:29] one day you're going to be sitting where I am

[00:26:31] and you're going to look back fondly

[00:26:33] because every single day is so precious

[00:26:35] now it's very difficult to say that

[00:26:37] when you got shit all over the floor

[00:26:39] you know and everyone's been working

[00:26:41] everyone's tired, there's food going everywhere

[00:26:43] you know and

[00:26:45] we're all guilty especially when we have little kids

[00:26:47] just trying to get to the end of the day

[00:26:49] that's it it is hard

[00:26:51] at the moment it's hard

[00:26:53] even you here talking about having a 16 year old

[00:26:55] and like that's now obviously like

[00:26:57] the opportunities to spend time

[00:26:59] shrink as they get older

[00:27:01] and I've got a 5 year old daughter

[00:27:03] and I do have this

[00:27:05] comparatively

[00:27:07] she says shit like

[00:27:09] I will never not live with you

[00:27:11] even if I have to have my own house when I grow up

[00:27:13] I'm going to be next door

[00:27:15] you're such a liar but I love it

[00:27:17] and I know that

[00:27:19] and it's just that

[00:27:21] hearing you say things like that

[00:27:23] all you can do is keep reminding yourself

[00:27:25] it's almost like a daily practice

[00:27:27] to come back to

[00:27:29] it's true, it's really a skill of life anyway

[00:27:31] it's not just about children

[00:27:33] it's about the fact that we only have short time here

[00:27:35] so we all

[00:27:37] aren't really that important

[00:27:39] or we're told they are important

[00:27:41] but children

[00:27:43] are one which I think

[00:27:45] do naturally bring you back into that zone

[00:27:47] anyway

[00:27:49] whatever concerns

[00:27:51] you have in the broader world

[00:27:53] when you're at home

[00:27:55] with your children and they need your attention

[00:27:57] that's it, if you suddenly have a sick kid

[00:27:59] everything evaporates like that

[00:28:01] you really remind yourself what's

[00:28:03] important

[00:28:05] I've told before about your dad

[00:28:07] or your mum and dads interest in the broader community

[00:28:09] and that's obviously something that you have

[00:28:11] a huge amount of

[00:28:13] as a role model

[00:28:15] as a mentor and as a father figure

[00:28:17] and that's something you obviously spend a lot of your time doing

[00:28:19] coaching and

[00:28:21] what do you get out of that being that person

[00:28:23] to a bunch of young

[00:28:25] men and women that aren't your kids

[00:28:27] yeah good question

[00:28:29] and this podcast obviously is about dads

[00:28:31] right but we also acknowledge that there's many types of parents

[00:28:33] and many types of relationships

[00:28:35] so a lot of what we're talking about is

[00:28:37] just common across all parenting

[00:28:39] what do I get out of it

[00:28:41] that's a difficult question to answer but I can tell you why I do it

[00:28:43] the reason I do it

[00:28:45] is because I can see

[00:28:47] what I was given

[00:28:49] I can recognize

[00:28:51] the privileges that I have

[00:28:53] and the life

[00:28:55] that I've led and that I've been

[00:28:57] given a lot to get where I've got

[00:28:59] yeah a lot of people have helped

[00:29:01] by sport, by nature

[00:29:03] is communal

[00:29:05] even if you're an individual sport you still got a coach

[00:29:07] and if you've got a coach you've probably got someone else

[00:29:09] you've probably got a team of people anyway

[00:29:11] so we learned that

[00:29:13] inherently and I really

[00:29:15] took that to heart

[00:29:17] so

[00:29:19] when I see kids I'm very

[00:29:21] attuned to how they are

[00:29:23] how they're being treated

[00:29:25] and whether they don't have those opportunities

[00:29:27] so when I go into a team environment with a group of under 17s

[00:29:29] for example

[00:29:31] I can also see how they respond

[00:29:33] to their parents

[00:29:35] you can see

[00:29:37] whether they need attention

[00:29:39] because a lot of them are really crying out from it

[00:29:41] from the coach

[00:29:43] they're seeking a mentor

[00:29:45] who actually respects them

[00:29:47] and demonstrates that they care for them

[00:29:49] and I want the best for you

[00:29:51] and is that the top of the hierarchy in terms of the

[00:29:53] basic things you're trying to communicate to those kids

[00:29:55] is that the respect

[00:29:57] and the care

[00:29:59] so the thing is

[00:30:01] my job as a youth coach

[00:30:03] is to help you kids be the best

[00:30:05] you can possibly be

[00:30:07] and that means to be well

[00:30:09] adjusted to be able to all work together

[00:30:11] but it might not ultimately be in sport

[00:30:13] my job is not

[00:30:15] to turn you into the greatest footballer

[00:30:17] they've ever lived

[00:30:19] my job is to maximise your talent

[00:30:21] but only as far as

[00:30:23] and along the way

[00:30:25] to be a secure

[00:30:27] confident human

[00:30:29] and what you see when you coach in youth sport

[00:30:31] is a lot of insecurity of kids

[00:30:33] a lot of problems

[00:30:35] you see a lot of issues in parenting

[00:30:37] because that's where

[00:30:39] I mean you have a lot of parents

[00:30:41] driving kids hard in sport

[00:30:43] which immediately is a problem

[00:30:45] and then so you have a lot of

[00:30:47] kids who feel

[00:30:49] that what they do is never enough

[00:30:51] that they can't live up to what it is their parents want them to achieve

[00:30:53] and all of these types of things

[00:30:55] what do you do with those kids

[00:30:57] so

[00:30:59] I'm not a child psychologist

[00:31:01] but I mean you've been in a trenchous

[00:31:03] many years so the only thing is

[00:31:05] the way I see it is not my responsibility

[00:31:07] or even

[00:31:09] role unless there's abuse involved

[00:31:11] which I had only seen

[00:31:13] definitively

[00:31:15] a couple of times

[00:31:17] aside from that my role is not

[00:31:19] to help you fix your family

[00:31:21] because I'm not your parent

[00:31:23] and that relationship is

[00:31:25] for you to own

[00:31:27] my role as a coach

[00:31:29] is just to help you be comfortable in this environment

[00:31:31] and perhaps grow

[00:31:33] as a person

[00:31:35] either inside or outside the family

[00:31:37] environment and so therefore

[00:31:39] I can see that you don't respond

[00:31:41] well to other people around you

[00:31:43] that you might be inhibited

[00:31:45] or you might be an introvert

[00:31:47] or you might also just

[00:31:49] have a difficult time

[00:31:51] and therefore I'll help you

[00:31:53] over time my job is to help you

[00:31:55] over time become a real part of the group

[00:31:57] and more confident in yourself

[00:31:59] not necessarily assertive

[00:32:01] but just to be who you are

[00:32:03] because you're not going to ultimately be

[00:32:05] a successful sports person unless

[00:32:07] you've become yourself anyway

[00:32:09] if you're dealing with your own challenges

[00:32:11] and hiding

[00:32:13] then it's very difficult to go

[00:32:15] in front of 80,000 people and perform well

[00:32:17] because they're going to find those chinks immediately

[00:32:19] totally

[00:32:21] it's interesting to me that yes so much of it's about empathy

[00:32:23] for the kid

[00:32:25] well it should all be

[00:32:27] it should all be

[00:32:29] I don't always take that approach with the parents

[00:32:31] I can tell you that now

[00:32:33] often I tell them to get away from the environment

[00:32:35] because

[00:32:37] in many times

[00:32:39] they can be damaging

[00:32:41] damaging to the young person's

[00:32:43] sense of self

[00:32:45] especially the arena especially teenagers

[00:32:47] where they're

[00:32:49] beginning to test their

[00:32:51] limits and test things out

[00:32:53] away from mum and dad

[00:32:55] away from the family

[00:32:57] so you see parents who want to be there constantly

[00:32:59] and to monitor

[00:33:01] and those

[00:33:03] late teen years

[00:33:05] part of growing into

[00:33:07] that's an athletic environment

[00:33:09] but even growing into a full person is being

[00:33:11] on your own

[00:33:13] and that's a possibility for your own actions

[00:33:15] and not that dad sees

[00:33:17] what's happening with the coaching

[00:33:19] and therefore dad's going to come and see me

[00:33:21] and so I don't think this is right, I think my son could do X, Y, Z

[00:33:23] it's just another version of the backyard then

[00:33:25] yeah all that stuff

[00:33:27] so basically it's like look you guys all go away

[00:33:29] go to the cafe and it's just about the kids now

[00:33:31] and what your son wants to tell you

[00:33:33] and how you have that conversation is a matter for you

[00:33:35] but you don't walk into a maths class

[00:33:37] and so then you shouldn't be here

[00:33:39] and it's actually about

[00:33:41] growing up

[00:33:43] the children growing up

[00:33:45] is that the best feeling for you as a coach

[00:33:47] or as someone as a mentor for young kids

[00:33:49] is the best feeling to see them change

[00:33:51] before your eyes?

[00:33:53] yeah it really is and so after you've

[00:33:55] I coached males and females

[00:33:57] I have probably about 8 years in total

[00:33:59] on a more or less full time basis

[00:34:01] while I was working at SBS on air

[00:34:03] and so my relationships

[00:34:05] with those kids are very strong today

[00:34:07] not all

[00:34:09] the vast majority and many of them

[00:34:11] are in touch very regularly

[00:34:13] what do you think about this asking for advice

[00:34:15] or just you know I'm doing this

[00:34:17] here I am in Bali or whatever it is

[00:34:19] and that's very nice

[00:34:21] but I'll

[00:34:23] give you one anecdote which demonstrates

[00:34:25] how important see this is what the fathering project

[00:34:27] and the father of the year stuff was

[00:34:29] about is about just role models

[00:34:31] and you don't have

[00:34:33] to be a biological parent

[00:34:35] doesn't matter father or whatever

[00:34:37] to be a role model

[00:34:39] all children have many role models outside

[00:34:41] because when they're in school they're watching the teachers

[00:34:43] and going how do these people differ from my parents

[00:34:45] you know what's

[00:34:47] and they're working out the broader world

[00:34:49] it's true isn't it

[00:34:51] I mean when you think about sometimes

[00:34:53] we think about role models as special

[00:34:55] people and they are

[00:34:57] but I've always like special people who may

[00:34:59] or may not come into someone's life

[00:35:01] like you know you model might not run into

[00:35:03] these wizards that walk amongst us

[00:35:05] but when you think about it

[00:35:07] especially when you got little kids

[00:35:09] every adult they run into is a role model

[00:35:11] good or bad you know they are going to

[00:35:13] model their behavior

[00:35:15] yeah so I think they're working out their own group dynamics

[00:35:17] you know where do I fit within

[00:35:19] other kids and you know

[00:35:21] where's the power dynamics and you know

[00:35:23] what personality am I

[00:35:25] or people are going to pin me as

[00:35:27] all that stuff but also

[00:35:29] they're being treated

[00:35:31] or mistreated by adults

[00:35:33] all day every day

[00:35:35] and I've seen

[00:35:37] some of the worst of that you know I know

[00:35:39] you know I have friends

[00:35:41] and people

[00:35:43] I know who you know have been

[00:35:45] abused as children you know including

[00:35:47] sexual abuse and

[00:35:49] and I know them as adults

[00:35:51] and I've seen them have to deal with

[00:35:53] that and

[00:35:55] you know to me it's one of the

[00:35:57] one of the worst things you know that can possibly

[00:35:59] happen a child's not just innocence

[00:36:01] but sense of self

[00:36:03] dignity confidence

[00:36:05] and ability

[00:36:07] or opportunity to just grow safely

[00:36:09] is the

[00:36:11] most precious thing that a child can be given

[00:36:13] and so

[00:36:15] to the extent that we can first

[00:36:17] keep our children safe

[00:36:19] that's already

[00:36:21] a very significant step forward

[00:36:23] because that's journey

[00:36:25] that meant too many people have to go on

[00:36:27] that's really harrowing

[00:36:29] really harrowing

[00:36:31] so you know that's why I say when it comes

[00:36:33] to daughters I mean when my daughter was in

[00:36:35] I think it might have been year 11 but

[00:36:37] my first daughter she

[00:36:39] you know we were going through that

[00:36:41] mid teenage years when

[00:36:43] we all challenge authority and we're finding

[00:36:45] our own sense of self you know I did it

[00:36:47] and

[00:36:49] I fully expect my children to do it in some

[00:36:51] ways and as parents

[00:36:53] we're all trying to keep the communication

[00:36:55] open and kind of

[00:36:57] in such a construct that we can manage

[00:36:59] through that safely

[00:37:01] right everyone who's had late

[00:37:03] teenage kids knows that this is just

[00:37:05] part of the process of growing up anyway

[00:37:07] and so my daughter wanted to go to a party

[00:37:09] and it was people that I didn't know

[00:37:11] and so I didn't know this new set

[00:37:13] of friends and therefore

[00:37:15] you know as a parent

[00:37:17] or as a father that is a concern to me

[00:37:19] I don't know the environment you're working into

[00:37:21] I don't know what you're walking into

[00:37:23] and I don't want to have

[00:37:25] to regret afterwards

[00:37:27] because I've seen

[00:37:29] the effects of

[00:37:31] if something goes wrong

[00:37:33] I've seen it first hand and so therefore

[00:37:37] I said but I didn't want to deny her

[00:37:39] the opportunity to go with this group

[00:37:41] of friends as well and so

[00:37:43] I dropped her off here

[00:37:45] in Sydney actually was down in Maruba

[00:37:47] of this evening and

[00:37:49] I put in the back of the car

[00:37:51] some dark clothing

[00:37:53] and

[00:37:57] I just go on and they went on

[00:37:59] to the beach they went on to the beach there to have

[00:38:01] a bit you know do whatever they're doing

[00:38:03] and I just wanted to make

[00:38:05] sure that I kept an eye and make sure that she

[00:38:07] was safe so I actually set up like

[00:38:09] on the top of the thing just keeping an eye on her

[00:38:11] right and you know this

[00:38:13] yes you knew it yeah so I told her like the next day

[00:38:15] right and then you know

[00:38:17] we everyone today you know we laugh about

[00:38:19] it but that's what they say that that is what our dad

[00:38:21] is like right he's keeping watch from the

[00:38:23] sand dunes well you know what if I have

[00:38:25] to keep watch you know of my teenage

[00:38:27] daughter going into a moment that I don't know

[00:38:29] yes I will but what actually happened

[00:38:31] was I was

[00:38:33] driving cars for Audi at the time

[00:38:35] they were giving me a car and it was a black car

[00:38:37] and so now I had like a black beanie on

[00:38:39] and a black jacket and so what

[00:38:41] happened is I was

[00:38:43] everything was fine I was comfortable that you know

[00:38:45] she was safe how long did you look for

[00:38:47] half an hour I was probably there

[00:38:49] yeah 45 minutes an hour something like that and I

[00:38:51] would just text her and say is everything okay

[00:38:53] how are you going to get home do you want me to come pick you up

[00:38:55] she'd text you back in here the message up in the

[00:38:57] schedule hear the ding

[00:38:59] dad's ringtone

[00:39:01] and so what happened is

[00:39:03] I said okay it's everything's great thanks

[00:39:05] I'll come back at 11pm or whatever

[00:39:07] and so I started driving

[00:39:09] off and what happens I didn't know where I was

[00:39:11] I'd never been there before in this

[00:39:13] space so I came to a roundabout

[00:39:15] and I started to do I didn't

[00:39:17] know which exit to take

[00:39:19] and so I did like three roundabouts

[00:39:21] trying to work out where the hell am I

[00:39:23] going to go off here and what happened is a police car

[00:39:25] I heard the siren I was a police car

[00:39:27] behind me pull me over

[00:39:29] we're resting

[00:39:31] doing slow circle work yeah

[00:39:33] what did they think just nick the car like I mean you

[00:39:35] look pretty dodgy exactly and then they pulled me

[00:39:37] over and I was like dressed with a black beanie

[00:39:39] I was in a blacked out you know

[00:39:41] black Audi you know and

[00:39:43] they pulled me over and they and the

[00:39:45] policeman walked up and he said

[00:39:47] oh you know what are you doing

[00:39:49] and I said

[00:39:51] well you're on the truth or

[00:39:53] you just thought yeah and he said well yeah that's

[00:39:55] probably better and I said well look

[00:39:57] there's not how it sounds you're not going to like this but I've been spying on some 16 year olds

[00:40:01] that's exactly what I said I said

[00:40:03] officer I've been keeping on my daughter she went

[00:40:05] to a party that I don't know the people

[00:40:07] and so I wanted to make sure that she was safe

[00:40:09] before I head off home I just don't know where I am

[00:40:11] and anyway he went back

[00:40:13] and they came up with a policeman who knew me

[00:40:15] on you of me

[00:40:17] I said oh Craig what are you doing I said I just explained here

[00:40:19] you know I was doing this and he said oh we were

[00:40:21] staking out a drug place and we saw you in this black car

[00:40:23] and you had a black beanie on

[00:40:25] you know we thought you were you know

[00:40:27] you think you're going to make it make it drop

[00:40:29] I said oh no oh god

[00:40:31] anyway he said oh look that's great

[00:40:33] and I explained to them clearly

[00:40:35] zip ties in the back they're not from

[00:40:37] they were just in case the other kids would know good

[00:40:39] yeah exactly

[00:40:41] what's becoming clear to me is like it is a very funny story

[00:40:43] but it's also that evidence of

[00:40:45] like you walk the walk you really

[00:40:47] mean it when you say whatever it takes

[00:40:49] yeah that's who you are

[00:40:51] yeah I mean you were talking before

[00:40:53] about winning father of the year

[00:40:55] yeah and I think

[00:40:57] I might have distracted you slightly with the role model stuff

[00:40:59] but you were you know to you

[00:41:01] is I mean it is a strange thing

[00:41:03] to win wins probably the wrong word

[00:41:05] because and I'm sure it is an uncomfortable

[00:41:07] word or word

[00:41:09] word or a comfortable notion to

[00:41:11] to kind of go because it frames

[00:41:13] as a competition which of course isn't

[00:41:15] yeah exactly

[00:41:17] but to be awarded father of the year

[00:41:19] that to you is about role modelling

[00:41:21] is that what it comes down to

[00:41:23] yeah so it is an odd thing

[00:41:25] because all parents know

[00:41:27] that it is a journey and it's difficult

[00:41:29] and we're constantly learning

[00:41:31] and just doing our best

[00:41:33] and therefore like how could you possibly

[00:41:35] hold someone up as you know having

[00:41:37] you know being the model for how

[00:41:39] it could happen but

[00:41:41] all that happened was the fathering project

[00:41:43] behind it I think is a really important

[00:41:45] organisation which works I think

[00:41:47] it's like thousands of particularly males

[00:41:49] but every year and helping them

[00:41:51] have better relationships with their kids

[00:41:53] they do great stuff yeah and so then

[00:41:55] I thought well that's worthwhile to support

[00:41:57] them and the reason I

[00:41:59] said yes okay I think that's important

[00:42:01] but also because they wanted to

[00:42:03] also talk about

[00:42:05] role modelling across cultures

[00:42:07] yeah and that I think

[00:42:09] is not something that we don't talk about a lot

[00:42:11] and so I work with kids

[00:42:13] largely in sport but by that time we'd also

[00:42:15] brought out a bunch of

[00:42:17] young 2021

[00:42:19] late uni student Afghan

[00:42:21] girls to Australia and

[00:42:23] there's a community around them

[00:42:25] helping them get fund scholarships for

[00:42:27] them and accommodation and blah blah

[00:42:29] you know with the Afghan community

[00:42:31] and you know and I'm part of that

[00:42:33] so they're kind of part of our extended family

[00:42:35] and I think this concept

[00:42:37] of you know I

[00:42:39] work a lot in intercultural and interfaith

[00:42:41] spaces because multiculturalism

[00:42:43] is basic about that

[00:42:45] if we are truly multicultural then

[00:42:47] that means we have to all be able to mix together

[00:42:49] and we should all be

[00:42:51] in a very real sense equal

[00:42:53] and barriers

[00:42:55] should not be presented to any of

[00:42:57] our communities but to do that that means we'll have to stand up for each other

[00:42:59] yeah so when

[00:43:01] a community is attacked we should see all other communities

[00:43:03] come in and say well they're just one of us anyway

[00:43:05] like there's no and

[00:43:07] intercultural interfaith

[00:43:09] is how you frame that education

[00:43:11] you know all faiths standing together

[00:43:13] and for other communities non-faith

[00:43:15] and of course all cultures

[00:43:17] and so therefore the opportunity

[00:43:19] to just amplify

[00:43:21] the importance of

[00:43:23] crossing over

[00:43:25] and mentoring and helping and

[00:43:27] just being kind to kids

[00:43:29] of all different backgrounds

[00:43:31] if they're not your religion or not your colour

[00:43:33] actually is part

[00:43:35] of what Australia should be about

[00:43:37] so that's what attracted me

[00:43:39] to the somewhat ridiculous notion

[00:43:41] of saying that there should be something

[00:43:43] you know a father of the year

[00:43:45] between January the 1st

[00:43:47] and December 31

[00:43:49] exactly I mean I think that

[00:43:51] is beautiful and I'm sure that what you've found

[00:43:53] through working

[00:43:55] across all different communities

[00:43:57] I would have

[00:43:59] much more exposure than most people

[00:44:01] across different communities, different cultures

[00:44:03] is the

[00:44:05] commonality between everybody

[00:44:07] is that something you find

[00:44:09] often? Yeah that's very true

[00:44:11] so when we

[00:44:13] see human rights abuse and we see

[00:44:15] ideological extremism

[00:44:17] and all of these things

[00:44:19] the one thing that it's all

[00:44:21] based on ignorance and very

[00:44:23] largely it comes out of

[00:44:25] the environments which are monocultural

[00:44:27] and where people just don't mix

[00:44:29] and the one

[00:44:31] fact we can say

[00:44:33] of human reality is that

[00:44:35] the more we do mix

[00:44:37] and get to know each other the more commonality

[00:44:39] we find

[00:44:41] in fact we find that there is far more

[00:44:43] commonality than difference and the differences are very

[00:44:45] minor. People

[00:44:47] just want to be

[00:44:49] safe, people want to be loved

[00:44:51] people want to love, people want to be respected

[00:44:53] and

[00:44:55] they certainly

[00:44:57] those who think it's important to have children

[00:44:59] have a very

[00:45:01] strong devotion

[00:45:03] and tie to them. That's

[00:45:05] certainly the natural state anyway. That's a human being

[00:45:07] no matter where they come from? Doesn't matter

[00:45:09] where they come from and you can go anywhere in the world

[00:45:11] and you'll find exactly the same thing. The way they manifest

[00:45:13] that is of course hugely different

[00:45:15] and we may not agree with it

[00:45:17] yeah that's right so

[00:45:19] cultural differences can be

[00:45:21] quite vast. But upstream

[00:45:23] of that is all the common values

[00:45:25] that's what you find

[00:45:27] and so people want to get out of Afghanistan

[00:45:29] because they want to protect their families

[00:45:31] my people of Lismore

[00:45:33] who in the floods they were

[00:45:35] prepared to risk their lives for others there

[00:45:37] because they know there were kids there

[00:45:39] and they're their friends and they're their community

[00:45:41] and so they get into their own boats

[00:45:43] and go and rescue people in the middle of the night in the pitch black

[00:45:45] when you literally could have

[00:45:47] hit an eddy, gone over

[00:45:49] and been lost

[00:45:51] people take that sort of

[00:45:53] incredibly courageous risk

[00:45:55] for the same reasons that they've always done

[00:45:57] and therefore

[00:45:59] you can connect with anyone in the world

[00:46:01] through children

[00:46:03] as soon as anyone's a parent

[00:46:05] we are, we get it

[00:46:07] slightly different topic

[00:46:11] does anything spring to mind

[00:46:13] if I was to ask you can you think of the last

[00:46:15] quote unquote mistake you made

[00:46:17] as a parent and then you went okay actually

[00:46:19] I'm going to course correct for that

[00:46:21] adjust to that

[00:46:23] well the good thing is my

[00:46:25] our daughter now

[00:46:27] will she'll push back

[00:46:29] and say

[00:46:31] oh dad you're doing that again

[00:46:33] or you're going down that road

[00:46:35] or how do you respond to those push backs

[00:46:37] great, yeah

[00:46:39] so we talked about

[00:46:41] the difference in parenting over 20 years

[00:46:43] period and how you evolve

[00:46:45] and part of that is

[00:46:47] much earlier

[00:46:49] and also because society's evolved

[00:46:51] we feel they've got to pass tools

[00:46:53] on to our youngest child

[00:46:55] that our elder children didn't need

[00:46:57] to later so not just

[00:46:59] tools of critical thinking but

[00:47:01] as a young girl

[00:47:03] tools of being able to push back

[00:47:05] and being able to push back against male figures

[00:47:07] so you quite enjoy

[00:47:09] seeing the yeah I love it

[00:47:11] but she has to prosecute it properly

[00:47:13] you know and so

[00:47:15] she's in

[00:47:17] year 11 now so you have to be

[00:47:19] able to hold an argument

[00:47:21] you have to be able to understand

[00:47:23] the process of argumentation

[00:47:25] and prosecute your side of the argument

[00:47:27] and so now

[00:47:29] we'll have that conversation then over time

[00:47:31] hopefully they

[00:47:33] they start, they come to enjoy it

[00:47:35] because they realise that's where their freedom lies

[00:47:37] if they can make a good

[00:47:39] case and present it well

[00:47:41] that's exactly right

[00:47:43] and would you say you're a good

[00:47:45] sparring partner in that sense

[00:47:47] that you will allow

[00:47:49] the situation to move

[00:47:51] and you're happy to be surprised

[00:47:53] yeah I've got better

[00:47:55] definitely because often you're pushing against

[00:47:57] guidelines

[00:47:59] that we have that we think

[00:48:01] are going to keep them safe or that's in their best interest

[00:48:03] that's what they're all there for

[00:48:05] and therefore

[00:48:07] but I'm much better when Lara's involved

[00:48:09] and then it's all of us

[00:48:11] so it sounds very much like the opposite of that

[00:48:13] would be rules

[00:48:15] or rules as long as you live under

[00:48:17] this house that's what's going on

[00:48:19] but it sounds to me like you're

[00:48:21] far more interested in

[00:48:23] well this is in rules or hypotheses

[00:48:25] and if you can question them well

[00:48:27] we could move the rules

[00:48:29] that's exactly what it is but the underlying

[00:48:31] thing is where he or his parents could be

[00:48:33] safe and to care for you

[00:48:35] and to get you to early

[00:48:37] adulthood when you can go and

[00:48:39] spread your wings with all the

[00:48:41] tools

[00:48:43] that we can possibly provide

[00:48:45] that's the basis

[00:48:47] so she has to argue against that

[00:48:49] she has to take them into consideration

[00:48:51] that's going to be difficult to move

[00:48:53] so we haven't really been in too many conversations

[00:48:55] where that's being challenged too much

[00:48:59] but she's only 16 because she'll also

[00:49:01] understand that she's getting into that zone

[00:49:03] so she needs to build more confidence

[00:49:05] and you know what

[00:49:07] this is what's so beautiful about Australia today

[00:49:09] we see women everywhere

[00:49:11] pushing back and asserting

[00:49:13] their rights and I just

[00:49:15] love it, I think it's one of the greatest

[00:49:17] social movements we'll see

[00:49:19] in Australia and my daughter

[00:49:21] is a part of that and I want her to

[00:49:23] be a part of that

[00:49:25] I want her to be a leader

[00:49:27] as far as she's willing to be

[00:49:29] or wants to be

[00:49:31] so I want her to test it on me

[00:49:33] as someone

[00:49:35] male who thinks like a male

[00:49:37] and I want her to get used

[00:49:39] to pushing back against

[00:49:41] a male

[00:49:43] authority figure

[00:49:45] well don't worry please tell her on behalf of my daughter

[00:49:47] who's five, she's got another sister

[00:49:49] in the movement too

[00:49:51] she's already good

[00:49:53] could be president

[00:49:55] excellent

[00:49:57] one other thing that

[00:49:59] I ask people to do, have a think about it

[00:50:01] what the comment is

[00:50:03] and this can be interpreted anyway

[00:50:05] like an example of gold standard

[00:50:07] dating

[00:50:09] I think it's in the Audi

[00:50:11] no

[00:50:13] just kidding

[00:50:15] that was black ops dating

[00:50:17] that's right, that's black ops

[00:50:19] what gold standard

[00:50:21] to you what are you looking at

[00:50:23] there's something about that that really resonates

[00:50:25] with like that's how I want to be a dad

[00:50:27] and that's what I think is important

[00:50:29] that our kids are

[00:50:31] safe, happy

[00:50:33] know they're loved

[00:50:35] and we

[00:50:37] you know and we can have

[00:50:39] a relationship as adults

[00:50:41] on an equal basis

[00:50:43] and when they can look back

[00:50:45] and say do you know what

[00:50:47] mum and dad

[00:50:49] you guys did an amazing job

[00:50:51] I love that, I love also that

[00:50:53] you know what we came back to first principles

[00:50:55] I think it's your superpower

[00:50:57] your first principles

[00:50:59] and you're able to stick with it

[00:51:01] mate I really love that, thanks so much Craig

[00:51:03] cool, no worries

[00:51:11] such a good chat, really appreciate Craig's time

[00:51:13] and he's

[00:51:15] he's intelligent, he's a man that really thinks carefully about

[00:51:17] what he's saying and I was really

[00:51:19] stoked that he would give up the time

[00:51:21] but the generosity of the way he

[00:51:23] approached thinking about these issues

[00:51:25] I think we're all

[00:51:27] here we are at the end, we're all much better people for it

[00:51:29] so thank you so much Craig

[00:51:31] I loved so much about that

[00:51:33] especially the coaching side of things

[00:51:35] the working with kids in the community

[00:51:37] and teaching your kids that in a community

[00:51:39] we care about all the other communities

[00:51:41] in our culture we care about all the other cultures

[00:51:43] and that's what unifies us

[00:51:45] that's what makes us all people

[00:51:47] feels always relevant and always timely

[00:51:49] but maybe at the moment even more so timely

[00:51:51] so thank you Craig

[00:51:53] thanks for giving up time, thanks to everyone that listened

[00:51:55] as always you can email the show

[00:51:57] we love getting your emails

[00:51:59] more than that we love the fact that you just turn up here

[00:52:01] week after week so really from our hearts

[00:52:03] from the bottom of our hearts to your

[00:52:05] the outside of your ears

[00:52:07] now the inside of your ears, thank you

[00:52:15] this episode of How Are The Dad's Dad was produced by Tim Bartley

[00:52:17] and his good friend Hamish Blake

[00:52:19] our theme is

[00:52:21] by the insanely clever

[00:52:23] and hilarious Tom Cardi

[00:52:25] please do check him out everywhere that you

[00:52:27] can check people out

[00:52:29] we recorded this on the lands of the Gadigal people

[00:52:31] of the Eora Nation

[00:52:33] who have passed their parenting stories down for thousands of generations

[00:52:35] and we pay our respects

[00:52:37] if you want to drop us a line head to our website howarethedadstad.com

[00:52:39] thanks again for listening

[00:52:51] as always thank you to

[00:52:53] Hurts

[00:52:55] our gorgeous sponsor

[00:52:57] for How Are The Dad's Dad

[00:52:59] this season of course

[00:53:01] with sponsorship comes

[00:53:03] a code

[00:53:05] I've never had this before

[00:53:07] in my whole career I've actually never given away the code

[00:53:09] so it's an open code

[00:53:11] but if you go to Hurts.com.au

[00:53:13] when you're booking a car

[00:53:15] forward slash hodd how are the dad's dad

[00:53:17] you get 25% off

[00:53:19] the base day rate now that

[00:53:21] is a bloody good deal

[00:53:23] and I'm stoked to be able to offer it on

[00:53:25] to the valuable dads, mums, uncles,

[00:53:27] aunties, sons, daughters

[00:53:29] whoever it is that's listening to this podcast

[00:53:31] Hurts.com.au

[00:53:33] and you get that discount

[00:53:35] it actually runs for a year

[00:53:37] I mean do it now obviously like so it makes me look good

[00:53:39] makes the show look good it has an effect

[00:53:41] but I think if you look at the terms and conditions

[00:53:43] and they do apply and you should look at them on the website

[00:53:45] I think it actually runs

[00:53:47] for quite a while at discount so you know one

[00:53:49] listen huge rewards from

[00:53:51] Hurts