Craig Foster - former Socceroo captain, legendary sports broadcaster, social justice champion… but his most important job? You guessed it… Good 'ol Dad!
As a compassionate and thoughtful leader who spends much of his time helping those who don't have a voice, Craig talks about why justice and fairness are core tenets of his and how this informs his parenting. Fozz also discusses shepherding his kids though the teenage years and the almost comical lengths he’s gone to keep a watchful eye. And as a leading advocate in the multicultural and refugee space, he speaks quite beautifully about the commonality created by parenting, and that when you strip things back, what we all indisputably share as parents is a deep desire for our kids to be safe, happy and loved. We told you he was thoughtful!
Craig’s CV is long, varied and representative of his desire to make a positive impact. He’s got an AM for humanitarian services, nominated as Australian of the year, a member of The Australian Multicultural society, an Adjunct Professor of Sport and Social Responsibility and an author. Oh, and 2022 he was named Father of the Year, which as he describes to Hamish, he views as an opportunity to advocate for kids and parents in the multicultural community and the huge benefit that father figures can have mentoring kids who are not their own, something that Craig does a lot of himself.
Huge thanks to Fozz for coming on and talking so honestly, passionately and with such thoughtfulness. What a treat for us. And what a wonderful leader to have in our community
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[00:00:30] Um, be a proy retire
[00:00:32] It will retire the song
[00:00:34] I mean it was just a first draft making up as I go along
[00:00:36] but um, I don't
[00:00:38] I think take the info from that
[00:00:40] Just don't take the delivery format
[00:00:42] Let's get into the show
[00:00:59] How Other Dads Dad
[00:01:03] This episode we have got
[00:01:05] Craig Foster
[00:01:07] who if you're familiar
[00:01:09] with the soccer
[00:01:11] football community in Australia
[00:01:13] you would absolutely know who Craig Foster is
[00:01:15] he's a former soccer ruer
[00:01:17] he's now commentates and
[00:01:19] has a huge role of coaching and developing
[00:01:21] younger kids and
[00:01:23] players in community
[00:01:25] but you'd also quite likely
[00:01:27] have a great role of Craig Foster for his social justice work
[00:01:29] he's a really
[00:01:31] incredibly thoughtful and intelligent
[00:01:33] and compassionate voice
[00:01:35] I think in that space and has done some
[00:01:37] wonderful things and I think has shown a great
[00:01:39] example
[00:01:41] of courageous leadership
[00:01:43] for various issues
[00:01:45] Obviously that's someone I look to and go
[00:01:47] this is the impressive man, I could learn a lot
[00:01:49] talking to him and hopefully we could all
[00:01:51] learn a lot
[00:01:53] It's worth noting before we get into today's chat
[00:01:55] we cover some really important areas
[00:01:57] but I think it does
[00:01:59] come up that he
[00:02:01] won Father of the Year
[00:02:03] Now we recorded this in about
[00:02:05] I think it was about May
[00:02:07] something along those lines
[00:02:09] so people may have been
[00:02:11] across the fact that I actually
[00:02:13] went through the same process
[00:02:15] a little later in the year but obviously this was recorded before that
[00:02:17] so this isn't just me baiting
[00:02:19] him going let's talk about Father of the Year
[00:02:21] I had no idea that was coming up
[00:02:23] I really like
[00:02:25] and agree with his sentiments that he has
[00:02:27] on the concept of
[00:02:29] you know we all know it's a little bit of
[00:02:31] a strange idea because obviously it's not something
[00:02:33] you can win being a dad
[00:02:35] but what to you know why there is
[00:02:37] good in it and how to use it for advocacy
[00:02:39] and that's something that he puts
[00:02:41] far more eloquently than I
[00:02:43] this is a really
[00:02:45] deep and interesting chat
[00:02:47] I really learn a lot and
[00:02:49] gained a lot too from someone that is
[00:02:51] deeply involved
[00:02:53] in making his community
[00:02:55] better through
[00:02:57] not just being a dad but being a father figure
[00:02:59] through coaching and
[00:03:01] mentoring and the work that he does
[00:03:03] in his community especially
[00:03:05] interfaith and intercultural stuff
[00:03:07] he talks really well about that in this podcast
[00:03:09] and you know I reckon
[00:03:11] there's just so much to be gained from that
[00:03:13] so let's ramble more Craig Foster
[00:03:15] let's find out how Craig Foster dads
[00:03:21] how are the dads
[00:03:23] how are the dads
[00:03:25] Craig Foster welcome
[00:03:27] Have we met? I don't know
[00:03:29] we might have met at the logeys
[00:03:31] you normally have winning stuff
[00:03:33] and I'm sitting in the back corner with SBS
[00:03:35] you're on the trestle table
[00:03:37] well I actually don't think we have met
[00:03:39] but I've been a fan of yours for a long time
[00:03:41] so I appreciate this and you didn't disappoint
[00:03:43] when you rocked in I hope this isn't sharing too much
[00:03:45] with a surfboard and a vespair homodon
[00:03:47] like man
[00:03:49] I'm not even Bondi so I'm heading down for a surf
[00:03:51] you're living the
[00:03:53] you're a walk in the wall
[00:03:55] I try to get out every opportunity I possibly can
[00:03:57] do you get out every day?
[00:03:59] I don't get out every day
[00:04:01] no we have a bit of travel and stuff
[00:04:03] but I try to get out at least 3-4 days a week
[00:04:05] is that your main sort of fitness thing
[00:04:07] that you do? yeah I'm getting on now
[00:04:09] 53 that knees aren't too good
[00:04:11] I still play football in the over 35s
[00:04:13] here in the east suburb of Sydney
[00:04:15] do you reel it really over 35
[00:04:17] I know
[00:04:19] nearly 20 years and everyone
[00:04:21] that's a lot of fun but I can't do it too much
[00:04:23] so I do it for exercise
[00:04:25] but it's also just Zen
[00:04:27] just nice to be out in the water
[00:04:29] you're in great meek
[00:04:31] this is not what I plan to take to those conversations
[00:04:33] but I mean that is
[00:04:35] you do see some professional athletes
[00:04:37] they obviously stop playing and once they're out of that structured program
[00:04:39] their bodies
[00:04:41] change a lot
[00:04:43] is that something that was always mentally important to you?
[00:04:45] my experience of being a professional athlete
[00:04:47] was that you come to
[00:04:49] understand food as a fuel
[00:04:51] and so when I stopped
[00:04:53] it just made sense to me
[00:04:55] that I didn't need all these massive carbohydrates anymore
[00:04:57] because I'd just been running
[00:04:59] 15k's a day
[00:05:01] and also became
[00:05:03] a pescetarian
[00:05:05] and got off the meat
[00:05:07] got off all that stuff
[00:05:09] which was great much more healthy
[00:05:11] much more energy
[00:05:13] and I get out in the surf
[00:05:15] as much as I possibly can
[00:05:17] that diet is always the thing
[00:05:19] that I know I've got to get round to doing
[00:05:21] because that's always the Mediterranean one
[00:05:23] these are the people that live too
[00:05:25] 110
[00:05:26] so great
[00:05:27] but a few of my friends including Les Murray
[00:05:29] who you would have known
[00:05:31] they passed away from cancer
[00:05:33] and that was one of the key factors
[00:05:35] as you were aging just to go, alright
[00:05:37] meat?
[00:05:39] both he and Johnny Warren
[00:05:41] they were from the football community
[00:05:43] they had similar issues
[00:05:45] and I went with them to the specialists
[00:05:47] when they were going through
[00:05:49] that process and that was one of the
[00:05:51] advice they got so it didn't take me long
[00:05:53] to say, oh okay I need to get away from that
[00:05:55] yeah man, awesome well again
[00:05:57] you're a great testament to that
[00:05:59] mate thank you for doing this
[00:06:01] let's start with your dad's stats
[00:06:03] as in how many children do you have
[00:06:05] how old are they?
[00:06:07] yeah so I've got three
[00:06:09] my daughter's 24
[00:06:11] and I've got a third child
[00:06:13] a daughter who is currently
[00:06:15] six-danged in year 11
[00:06:17] alright so there's a 10 year span
[00:06:19] do you find the changes a lot?
[00:06:21] obviously the 10 years ago
[00:06:23] you had a 16 year old
[00:06:25] now you have a 16 year old
[00:06:27] is the advice you're giving today a 16 year old
[00:06:29] a different situation than what's 10 years ago
[00:06:31] yeah I think that's natural
[00:06:33] all of us with our first child
[00:06:35] many first children
[00:06:37] my older brother, I'm the middle of three
[00:06:39] my older brother would say that he
[00:06:41] kind of copped it worse
[00:06:43] yeah that is generally the thing
[00:06:45] they're the ice breaker
[00:06:47] that's right and I think they are
[00:06:49] in many respects because we're really working it out
[00:06:51] and your first child
[00:06:53] of two or three or four
[00:06:55] tends to be when you're a fair bit younger as well
[00:06:57] so we're still all discovering our career
[00:06:59] we're having to build
[00:07:01] whatever it is that you think is important in life
[00:07:03] alongside family
[00:07:05] and therefore they also
[00:07:07] I think get caught up more in that
[00:07:09] so being 53
[00:07:11] and having now the third child
[00:07:13] just coming through the later years of school
[00:07:15] this is the third time we've been through it
[00:07:17] we know, so our advice to her is different
[00:07:19] we might be able to find
[00:07:21] more time ourselves because of
[00:07:23] the stage of life that we're in
[00:07:25] so we learn as we go
[00:07:29] and just try and improve along the way
[00:07:31] what would you say
[00:07:33] I mean you don't have to go into specifics here but
[00:07:35] is a priority now for your current 16 year old
[00:07:37] as opposed to
[00:07:39] and was that different than when your 26 year old
[00:07:41] was 16, like what sort of things
[00:07:43] are you prioritising now to give them
[00:07:45] yeah so we're also a blended family
[00:07:47] and so
[00:07:49] our third child
[00:07:51] is Lara my wife's
[00:07:53] only child
[00:07:55] and so therefore
[00:07:57] like many of your listeners
[00:07:59] that brings its own set of circumstances
[00:08:01] and the reason I mention that
[00:08:03] is because
[00:08:05] different people
[00:08:07] Lara as a mother
[00:08:09] is very much focused on different areas
[00:08:11] to what I was also
[00:08:13] 20 years ago
[00:08:15] and so education for her
[00:08:17] is extremely important
[00:08:19] and that was a big part
[00:08:21] of her upbringing
[00:08:23] therefore there's a very strong focus on that
[00:08:27] which is much stronger than
[00:08:29] for our two elder children
[00:08:31] for example of course it was always important
[00:08:33] but you know it's really central now
[00:08:35] and so there's many reasons as we go through life
[00:08:37] that the focus and the emphasis changes
[00:08:39] you know that's one of them
[00:08:41] and as I said before I think we just
[00:08:43] as we become
[00:08:45] wiser and older
[00:08:47] we also participate
[00:08:49] in different areas of society
[00:08:51] and we come to understand perhaps
[00:08:53] the way things operate better
[00:08:55] that allows us to think more deeply about them
[00:08:57] and challenge some aspects of them
[00:08:59] but also understand how to guide our child
[00:09:01] to be able to get through
[00:09:03] those hurdles that
[00:09:05] everyone ultimately faces
[00:09:07] absolutely I think you raise an interesting point
[00:09:09] which I find myself in my marriage
[00:09:11] and I know talking to mates
[00:09:13] as your kids get older and you
[00:09:15] you hit issue
[00:09:17] not issues but areas like education
[00:09:19] we're like oh we have differing ideas on this
[00:09:21] so much of it
[00:09:23] I find when you're in when you're parenting
[00:09:25] in a relationship
[00:09:27] is that dance about going
[00:09:29] you care about this
[00:09:31] I have a different level of
[00:09:33] interest and it's that push pull
[00:09:35] how important is that
[00:09:37] to get that right do you think with your partner
[00:09:39] well you know that basically
[00:09:41] is marriage you know
[00:09:43] and so
[00:09:45] I think the underlying
[00:09:47] principle
[00:09:49] or the question to ask
[00:09:51] is you know how important are your children
[00:09:53] to you
[00:09:55] I think we all even if we don't ask ourselves
[00:09:57] that we're ultimately demonstrating
[00:09:59] that every day and that gets tested
[00:10:01] from time to time that's interesting so
[00:10:03] in what way would you say
[00:10:05] that we're showing that each day
[00:10:07] so
[00:10:09] to Lara and myself our children
[00:10:11] are by far the most important thing
[00:10:13] in our life and so
[00:10:15] that's part of our relationship
[00:10:17] and marriage is that
[00:10:19] you know we're just
[00:10:21] that's one of the areas I guess where we
[00:10:23] which brought us together one of many things
[00:10:25] but it was certainly one area where
[00:10:27] we're very much in tink on that and so
[00:10:29] you know there's no
[00:10:31] sacrifice or there's no commitment
[00:10:33] or there's no action
[00:10:35] that we wouldn't take if we think that
[00:10:37] it's in there and everyone around them
[00:10:39] is best interest
[00:10:41] and therefore they're very much central to our life
[00:10:43] you know we're not
[00:10:45] and I've never been someone who
[00:10:47] is seeking to run off
[00:10:49] and do extraordinary things
[00:10:51] and a family is an adjunct
[00:10:53] it's very much that the family
[00:10:55] is our life family friends
[00:10:57] and then everything else
[00:10:59] just kind of comes out of that
[00:11:01] but it has to very much be
[00:11:03] part of that construct I think
[00:11:05] that's interesting I think a lot of people would say that
[00:11:07] of course like kids are most important thing
[00:11:09] but the question of sacrifice is
[00:11:11] that's sort of where the rubber meets the road
[00:11:13] that's where you find out
[00:11:15] you know that old adage of
[00:11:17] like on a not sort of show me your calendar
[00:11:19] and I'll tell you what's important to you
[00:11:21] because it is that's how you spend your time
[00:11:23] yeah that's totally right and when it comes to work
[00:11:25] you know we've had I mean I used to live
[00:11:27] abroad playing professional sport
[00:11:29] but we've been here now for
[00:11:31] over 20 years and
[00:11:33] many opportunities to move abroad
[00:11:35] really quite exciting opportunities
[00:11:37] but we make the decision to stay here
[00:11:39] and that's simply because
[00:11:41] we always try to put them
[00:11:43] central to what we do
[00:11:45] and build our any
[00:11:47] I mean I travel around Australia quite a bit
[00:11:49] not so much international these days
[00:11:51] but try and build that around those commitments
[00:11:53] and so there's nothing I love more
[00:11:55] you know as all children do
[00:11:57] but at 16 my daughter rolls her eyes
[00:11:59] but secretly she loves it
[00:12:01] because her dad just loves on Saturday morning
[00:12:03] to take her to sport
[00:12:05] in fact the further the tennis or the football
[00:12:07] or the hockey is away the happier I am
[00:12:09] Charlie's got tennis
[00:12:11] we're playing at Alice Springs this weekend
[00:12:13] so the furthest is down
[00:12:15] you know in barrel
[00:12:17] geez that is
[00:12:19] yeah now 20 hour 30
[00:12:21] and I love it
[00:12:23] get in she's on her L plates
[00:12:25] now so you know
[00:12:27] I can pretend that I know what I'm doing
[00:12:29] and help her a little bit but you know it's just such a great
[00:12:31] every dad knows that those times
[00:12:33] when you're just free
[00:12:35] you can just chat listen to their music
[00:12:37] joke about what they want to joke about
[00:12:39] they're very very special moments
[00:12:41] especially when you're at our age and your children are
[00:12:43] already growing or grown up
[00:12:45] I think man I mean I think it's one of
[00:12:47] the things it's simple
[00:12:49] to say and it sounds effortless but it's
[00:12:51] not it's like that is
[00:12:53] as you said that's not just a
[00:12:55] happenstance that's something that
[00:12:57] to her would probably feel effortless
[00:12:59] like oh that's just dad driving me to tennis
[00:13:01] which I would have thought at 16
[00:13:03] but it's so much bigger for you
[00:13:05] huge yeah it's huge for dad but I joke with her about it
[00:13:07] you know and so we call it daddy
[00:13:09] daughter time you know and now that she's
[00:13:11] driving it's daddy daughter driving
[00:13:13] time right and so
[00:13:15] she knows that you know we're going to
[00:13:17] have a chat she knows that she has to
[00:13:19] open up a little bit about what's happening at school
[00:13:21] because we don't get a lot of time to do that and she'll do that more with the mum
[00:13:23] yeah how do you find that goes
[00:13:25] with any teenager in general
[00:13:27] you know because I know you're
[00:13:29] something that spends a lot of time too with kids of that age
[00:13:31] like coaching and mentoring
[00:13:33] is it the art
[00:13:35] of allowing space for
[00:13:37] it to come up what are some of the things that you use
[00:13:39] to allow to bubble up
[00:13:41] it's tough I mean and teenagers
[00:13:43] are kind of seen as
[00:13:45] as bottled up
[00:13:47] and you know
[00:13:49] not so interested in their parents in the mid teens
[00:13:51] and late teens you know probably for
[00:13:53] good reason I'm not a child psychologist but
[00:13:55] I've had three children and during
[00:13:57] that period of course their interest moves into
[00:13:59] other areas and so it's not just their parents
[00:14:01] and you know and it's
[00:14:03] school and it's the issues that they have
[00:14:05] with friendships
[00:14:07] and discovering their own relationships
[00:14:09] you know with boys
[00:14:11] or girls so
[00:14:13] we start to kind of become a little bit peripheral
[00:14:15] and you know all of us
[00:14:17] will kind of go into environments
[00:14:19] or homes where you can
[00:14:21] sense immediately that there's just this amazing
[00:14:23] relationship between the parents
[00:14:25] and the kids you know
[00:14:27] and
[00:14:29] you know and we love to see it
[00:14:31] and I think we're all trying to create that
[00:14:33] I agree. It's a journey it's not
[00:14:35] easy
[00:14:37] ultimately the way I approach it
[00:14:39] is that as long as the kids know that
[00:14:41] they're unconditionally loved
[00:14:43] and that we would do anything for them
[00:14:45] then we've got a good
[00:14:47] platform to go somewhere
[00:14:49] my wife is much
[00:14:51] more skilled at having conversations
[00:14:53] and pushes me to do
[00:14:55] so you know and to open up
[00:14:57] you know both between
[00:14:59] the two of us and also with the children
[00:15:01] so therefore she's just
[00:15:03] amazing part of that whole
[00:15:05] dynamic. She's your conversational coach
[00:15:07] yeah so she's a connecting
[00:15:09] person you know
[00:15:11] and so she just loves everyone
[00:15:13] and is that something that you don't feel
[00:15:15] that's in your wheelhouse?
[00:15:17] Well not in the way that she
[00:15:19] does. No I can
[00:15:21] start to have conversations and I'll be
[00:15:25] I kind of come if someone's
[00:15:27] in need
[00:15:29] and I can't help everything and there's nothing that I
[00:15:31] won't do. Gotcha
[00:15:33] but if kind of people are fine
[00:15:35] and I've got other things on my mind
[00:15:37] I'll be wondering I gotta go and do this
[00:15:39] and do that and do that whereas Lara's like
[00:15:41] you know what's going on here
[00:15:43] she'd happily sit on the phone
[00:15:45] for two hours
[00:15:47] my wife loves someone who
[00:15:49] someone will call from those things where they say
[00:15:51] we're just like talking about banking or something
[00:15:53] right? And she'll sit on the phone
[00:15:55] for two hours and I'll go
[00:15:57] no these people what are you doing
[00:15:59] just seriously we've got to go oh yeah
[00:16:01] but this is you know this is
[00:16:03] Jenny and Jenny's got this it's amazing
[00:16:05] we were talking about you know what's happening I don't know
[00:16:07] with whatever she's like that and so
[00:16:09] that certainly helps with the kids
[00:16:11] because she's constantly she creates an environment
[00:16:13] where conversation is important
[00:16:15] I love that. But what changes
[00:16:17] through different children I think
[00:16:19] maturity is what conversations we want
[00:16:21] to have with our children and also
[00:16:23] society changes. Yeah
[00:16:25] so we've got to have more challenging conversations
[00:16:27] today than we had to have 20 years ago
[00:16:29] Yeah 100% I mean
[00:16:31] it's a bizarrely different world
[00:16:33] it is. Do you sometimes feel
[00:16:35] I mean you know you're a 53 year old
[00:16:37] 16 year old child
[00:16:39] what is going on in the 16 year old's world
[00:16:41] like I mean in terms of like whatever
[00:16:43] social media, social stuff
[00:16:45] do you feel like you have some sort of read
[00:16:47] on it or does it feel confusing
[00:16:49] Oh it's always confusing because it moves
[00:16:51] quickly and you know
[00:16:53] we try and keep that communication open
[00:16:55] you know and now we're coming into
[00:16:57] 1617 which is about
[00:16:59] now going trying to balance parties
[00:17:01] and friendships we
[00:17:03] friendships and academia with
[00:17:05] parties. Yeah
[00:17:07] And I come from the country up in Lismore
[00:17:09] and so we were
[00:17:11] pretty free and
[00:17:13] we were probably rap bags in many ways
[00:17:15] you know we just we were up near the beach
[00:17:17] we were out there and so you know we were
[00:17:19] having a beer at a pretty young age
[00:17:21] and we you know it was very safe environment
[00:17:23] whereas today that's very different
[00:17:25] so now
[00:17:27] we know for a fact that if she's going to go to parties
[00:17:29] there are drugs there
[00:17:31] there's some information that comes through
[00:17:33] the school system which I find really
[00:17:35] important and powerful. Look all the
[00:17:37] parents need to be aware of this
[00:17:39] this stuff is happening online now and this is what
[00:17:41] we're hearing and that's important
[00:17:43] It's scary isn't it? It is scary
[00:17:45] because it's a giant unknown and I always remember
[00:17:47] when I was a teenager I was like
[00:17:49] I felt I was like man my parents have no idea
[00:17:51] what's going on like in my world
[00:17:53] and I was like I won't I'm gonna
[00:17:55] I promise like when I grow up I'm gonna be
[00:17:57] across I'm gonna stay I can't
[00:17:59] ever see myself not understanding how a 16 year old
[00:18:01] and then you get like sort of into your
[00:18:03] just feel it start slipping away and you're like
[00:18:05] twins. You don't get the
[00:18:07] thread back. It's moving so quickly
[00:18:09] so you know there's there are some
[00:18:11] dangers so the thing is you want them to have
[00:18:13] freedom and you want them to
[00:18:15] develop responsibility but at the same
[00:18:17] time be protective and that was the
[00:18:19] environment I came out of
[00:18:21] and what I've tried to do. I must admit
[00:18:23] I've been much more protective of my two daughters
[00:18:27] than what I was of my son
[00:18:29] whilst I was always there
[00:18:31] you know when my when our second
[00:18:33] child but my first daughter came through
[00:18:35] and started going to parties and so on
[00:18:37] I was I was always around
[00:18:39] We laugh about it today
[00:18:41] but I was always around. Is that old guy in the
[00:18:43] backwards cap in the corner?
[00:18:45] Well seriously I mean her first
[00:18:47] school social or her school
[00:18:49] socials in like year 10 or something
[00:18:51] you know the parents would come to pick up at 11 o'clock
[00:18:53] at night and I'd be there at 10
[00:18:55] and I would be there and I would say
[00:18:57] to the principal yeah I'm just here everything
[00:18:59] okay you know and she
[00:19:01] and you know I'd make sure that she knew
[00:19:03] look daddy's gonna be here
[00:19:05] you know I might just stay the whole time outside
[00:19:07] doesn't matter but I'm around
[00:19:09] if there's any issues
[00:19:11] you know that you know so
[00:19:13] that kind of protective of instinct was very
[00:19:15] very strong. We might have already touched
[00:19:17] on it and I got a hunch and I know what one
[00:19:19] of them will be but
[00:19:21] I do I do ask before people
[00:19:23] come on like what are the three
[00:19:25] sort of core you had to boil it down
[00:19:27] to three core principles
[00:19:29] of parenting for your philosophy
[00:19:31] what would they be? Well
[00:19:33] I would just say the underlying thing is just
[00:19:35] absolute love and care for the children
[00:19:37] and perhaps second is sacrifice
[00:19:39] but they're basically the same thing
[00:19:41] and that's how I grew up
[00:19:43] I was gifted a wonderful
[00:19:45] childhood by very close family
[00:19:47] up in the country. Safety
[00:19:49] love wasn't love wasn't
[00:19:51] always expressed in those terms
[00:19:53] but what I knew is my father used to always
[00:19:55] say we had three boys so you know
[00:19:57] we were out at sport
[00:19:59] we were going away at sport we were
[00:20:01] at parties you know probably
[00:20:03] year seven, year eight, year nine
[00:20:05] and it was always doesn't
[00:20:07] matter what happens
[00:20:09] I will get you know you just let me know
[00:20:11] and I will come and get you anytime of the night
[00:20:13] and day wherever you are doesn't matter if you're in a different state
[00:20:15] right you know I'll get in the car
[00:20:17] and I will come and get you and there'll be no judgment
[00:20:19] we can talk about what happened later
[00:20:21] but you're never going to get in trouble
[00:20:23] by calling me
[00:20:25] and I can come and help you so if one
[00:20:27] of your friends is in trouble or something happened
[00:20:29] that you're not certain about you always
[00:20:31] just pick up the phone and you know
[00:20:33] that we're here at five in the morning four in the morning
[00:20:35] or whatever right? It's such a massive
[00:20:37] one it's something that you
[00:20:39] you know it's certainly a concept we've heard
[00:20:41] in different ways come up
[00:20:43] before on the podcast
[00:20:45] and to me I mean that is exactly as you say
[00:20:47] that's the evidence that sacrifice is love
[00:20:49] that's the language you were taught
[00:20:51] from your doubt obviously saying to you
[00:20:55] in that moment when you're in a
[00:20:57] when you need something nothing's too big
[00:20:59] and ask that's interesting because
[00:21:01] it's not specifically saying I love you but
[00:21:03] it is
[00:21:05] saying I love you it's saying to you
[00:21:07] that his time is
[00:21:09] not as important as your well-being
[00:21:11] that's right and then the sacrifice
[00:21:13] so I saw the picture of it
[00:21:15] and then of course you try
[00:21:17] and do better which probably means more
[00:21:19] open more open conversation
[00:21:21] you know and talking to aspects
[00:21:23] with the kids that we never really discussed
[00:21:25] so we didn't know about like brought up political
[00:21:27] civil society and these things
[00:21:29] and educating them in terms of social justice
[00:21:31] and those other issues which
[00:21:33] I saw in their actions
[00:21:35] but we never had
[00:21:37] that wasn't the thing you talked about growing up
[00:21:39] no so I had a lot of knowledge gaps
[00:21:41] I knew that injustice
[00:21:43] was something that triggered me
[00:21:45] but I wasn't quite sure where that injustice lay
[00:21:47] and so now
[00:21:49] it's become a big part of your life
[00:21:51] a huge part yeah
[00:21:53] do you know where it came from
[00:21:55] if it wasn't discussed growing up
[00:21:57] where did that come from?
[00:21:59] I don't know I think it was always just in there
[00:22:01] in the models as parents
[00:22:03] a
[00:22:05] determination around
[00:22:07] fairness and equality
[00:22:09] they didn't express it in those terms
[00:22:11] they could inherently see it
[00:22:13] so they would help people
[00:22:15] they were helpers? yeah they were helpers
[00:22:17] and they were community contributors
[00:22:19] so my father was
[00:22:21] always working mainly
[00:22:23] across sport but through sport
[00:22:25] everyone else always raising money
[00:22:27] always helping people that type of stuff
[00:22:29] and then it just morphs into
[00:22:31] I guess a more
[00:22:33] concrete form
[00:22:35] of understanding and being able to help
[00:22:37] it's interesting
[00:22:39] you said before you were sort of like
[00:22:41] your strength in the marriage
[00:22:43] is if you see someone in need
[00:22:45] you're 100% there
[00:22:47] obviously that's something you inherited from your dad
[00:22:49] that's his exact language
[00:22:51] who is if you're in need
[00:22:53] I'll be there and now that's
[00:22:55] very much could almost
[00:22:57] be the motto of the work
[00:22:59] that you do outside your family
[00:23:01] is if someone's in need
[00:23:03] you will be there
[00:23:05] to be that
[00:23:07] person to set that example
[00:23:09] do you teach that with the kids
[00:23:11] do you bring your kids along into that world
[00:23:13] how do you role model that with them?
[00:23:15] we have discussions around what it means
[00:23:17] they see it anyway
[00:23:19] and that's important
[00:23:21] and they see the discussions we have
[00:23:23] which very often is about
[00:23:25] receiving information about
[00:23:27] you know
[00:23:29] campaigns or protests
[00:23:31] or refugees who are in trouble
[00:23:33] and so it actually happens
[00:23:35] live within the family firstly
[00:23:37] and secondly we then just take the time
[00:23:39] to explain to them
[00:23:41] as much as possible what it's about
[00:23:43] why it's important
[00:23:45] and how they should keep it in mind
[00:23:47] what I want them to do is
[00:23:49] to be active social citizens
[00:23:51] and I want them to be good humans
[00:23:53] who care about injustice
[00:23:55] and about others
[00:23:57] and they certainly are that
[00:23:59] how they manifest that is completely up to them
[00:24:01] I kind of try
[00:24:03] and remain on first principles
[00:24:05] and saying this is what we want
[00:24:07] the type of person we want you to be
[00:24:09] and you can bring that to life in any way one
[00:24:11] that's really
[00:24:13] very wise and beautiful
[00:24:15] I reckon that's something a lot of us struggle with
[00:24:17] because
[00:24:19] let's say
[00:24:21] 10-15 years behind you on that journey
[00:24:23] with kids
[00:24:25] something I think about a lot is
[00:24:27] here's the principles I care about
[00:24:29] and here's the qualities I think make a good person
[00:24:31] and
[00:24:33] we're always trying to role model it
[00:24:35] we're always trying to talk to them about it
[00:24:37] I probably personally fall into the trap
[00:24:39] of getting frustrated
[00:24:41] I probably get too specific where I'm like
[00:24:43] no no this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about
[00:24:45] I reckon I battle staying at first principles
[00:24:47] did you ever have that
[00:24:49] I feel like as time goes on I keep learning
[00:24:51] that lesson over and over and over again until it sticks
[00:24:53] just to go
[00:24:55] you can't
[00:24:57] how old are your kids?
[00:24:59] 5 and 8
[00:25:01] so my daughter still refuses
[00:25:03] to go to the UN
[00:25:05] but it's just that thing of like I catch myself
[00:25:07] racing ahead
[00:25:09] into adult thinking
[00:25:11] and I just feel it I lose them
[00:25:13] and it's that thing of like trying to
[00:25:15] keep it appropriate as a concept
[00:25:17] at their age
[00:25:19] yeah let them be their age
[00:25:21] let them be their age
[00:25:23] and that's the
[00:25:25] we all when we are parents see new parents
[00:25:27] so I have a new parent
[00:25:29] who is who I work with at Stan Australia
[00:25:31] on our Champions League coverage
[00:25:33] which basically European club football
[00:25:35] and it's fantastic guys lovely human
[00:25:37] great human his name is Max Rushton
[00:25:39] and so Max
[00:25:41] he
[00:25:43] has a new child with his wife
[00:25:45] a new child
[00:25:47] is that the right terminology?
[00:25:49] sometimes we call babies
[00:25:51] like we're that factory fresh human
[00:25:53] exactly
[00:25:55] so about 6 months now probably
[00:25:57] and it's tough
[00:25:59] it's hard you know
[00:26:01] and all our experiences
[00:26:03] are very very different because
[00:26:05] the health factor plays such a part
[00:26:07] and we with all of our 3 children
[00:26:09] we were very fortunate
[00:26:11] we didn't have gastric
[00:26:13] sleeping issues
[00:26:15] we didn't have
[00:26:17] so when you have those
[00:26:19] types of things
[00:26:21] it puts real strain on everyone
[00:26:23] and it's difficult
[00:26:25] for them to believe
[00:26:27] but I just keep saying to him listen
[00:26:29] one day you're going to be sitting where I am
[00:26:31] and you're going to look back fondly
[00:26:33] because every single day is so precious
[00:26:35] now it's very difficult to say that
[00:26:37] when you got shit all over the floor
[00:26:39] you know and everyone's been working
[00:26:41] everyone's tired, there's food going everywhere
[00:26:43] you know and
[00:26:45] we're all guilty especially when we have little kids
[00:26:47] just trying to get to the end of the day
[00:26:49] that's it it is hard
[00:26:51] at the moment it's hard
[00:26:53] even you here talking about having a 16 year old
[00:26:55] and like that's now obviously like
[00:26:57] the opportunities to spend time
[00:26:59] shrink as they get older
[00:27:01] and I've got a 5 year old daughter
[00:27:03] and I do have this
[00:27:05] comparatively
[00:27:07] she says shit like
[00:27:09] I will never not live with you
[00:27:11] even if I have to have my own house when I grow up
[00:27:13] I'm going to be next door
[00:27:15] you're such a liar but I love it
[00:27:17] and I know that
[00:27:19] and it's just that
[00:27:21] hearing you say things like that
[00:27:23] all you can do is keep reminding yourself
[00:27:25] it's almost like a daily practice
[00:27:27] to come back to
[00:27:29] it's true, it's really a skill of life anyway
[00:27:31] it's not just about children
[00:27:33] it's about the fact that we only have short time here
[00:27:35] so we all
[00:27:37] aren't really that important
[00:27:39] or we're told they are important
[00:27:41] but children
[00:27:43] are one which I think
[00:27:45] do naturally bring you back into that zone
[00:27:47] anyway
[00:27:49] whatever concerns
[00:27:51] you have in the broader world
[00:27:53] when you're at home
[00:27:55] with your children and they need your attention
[00:27:57] that's it, if you suddenly have a sick kid
[00:27:59] everything evaporates like that
[00:28:01] you really remind yourself what's
[00:28:03] important
[00:28:05] I've told before about your dad
[00:28:07] or your mum and dads interest in the broader community
[00:28:09] and that's obviously something that you have
[00:28:11] a huge amount of
[00:28:13] as a role model
[00:28:15] as a mentor and as a father figure
[00:28:17] and that's something you obviously spend a lot of your time doing
[00:28:19] coaching and
[00:28:21] what do you get out of that being that person
[00:28:23] to a bunch of young
[00:28:25] men and women that aren't your kids
[00:28:27] yeah good question
[00:28:29] and this podcast obviously is about dads
[00:28:31] right but we also acknowledge that there's many types of parents
[00:28:33] and many types of relationships
[00:28:35] so a lot of what we're talking about is
[00:28:37] just common across all parenting
[00:28:39] what do I get out of it
[00:28:41] that's a difficult question to answer but I can tell you why I do it
[00:28:43] the reason I do it
[00:28:45] is because I can see
[00:28:47] what I was given
[00:28:49] I can recognize
[00:28:51] the privileges that I have
[00:28:53] and the life
[00:28:55] that I've led and that I've been
[00:28:57] given a lot to get where I've got
[00:28:59] yeah a lot of people have helped
[00:29:01] by sport, by nature
[00:29:03] is communal
[00:29:05] even if you're an individual sport you still got a coach
[00:29:07] and if you've got a coach you've probably got someone else
[00:29:09] you've probably got a team of people anyway
[00:29:11] so we learned that
[00:29:13] inherently and I really
[00:29:15] took that to heart
[00:29:17] so
[00:29:19] when I see kids I'm very
[00:29:21] attuned to how they are
[00:29:23] how they're being treated
[00:29:25] and whether they don't have those opportunities
[00:29:27] so when I go into a team environment with a group of under 17s
[00:29:29] for example
[00:29:31] I can also see how they respond
[00:29:33] to their parents
[00:29:35] you can see
[00:29:37] whether they need attention
[00:29:39] because a lot of them are really crying out from it
[00:29:41] from the coach
[00:29:43] they're seeking a mentor
[00:29:45] who actually respects them
[00:29:47] and demonstrates that they care for them
[00:29:49] and I want the best for you
[00:29:51] and is that the top of the hierarchy in terms of the
[00:29:53] basic things you're trying to communicate to those kids
[00:29:55] is that the respect
[00:29:57] and the care
[00:29:59] so the thing is
[00:30:01] my job as a youth coach
[00:30:03] is to help you kids be the best
[00:30:05] you can possibly be
[00:30:07] and that means to be well
[00:30:09] adjusted to be able to all work together
[00:30:11] but it might not ultimately be in sport
[00:30:13] my job is not
[00:30:15] to turn you into the greatest footballer
[00:30:17] they've ever lived
[00:30:19] my job is to maximise your talent
[00:30:21] but only as far as
[00:30:23] and along the way
[00:30:25] to be a secure
[00:30:27] confident human
[00:30:29] and what you see when you coach in youth sport
[00:30:31] is a lot of insecurity of kids
[00:30:33] a lot of problems
[00:30:35] you see a lot of issues in parenting
[00:30:37] because that's where
[00:30:39] I mean you have a lot of parents
[00:30:41] driving kids hard in sport
[00:30:43] which immediately is a problem
[00:30:45] and then so you have a lot of
[00:30:47] kids who feel
[00:30:49] that what they do is never enough
[00:30:51] that they can't live up to what it is their parents want them to achieve
[00:30:53] and all of these types of things
[00:30:55] what do you do with those kids
[00:30:57] so
[00:30:59] I'm not a child psychologist
[00:31:01] but I mean you've been in a trenchous
[00:31:03] many years so the only thing is
[00:31:05] the way I see it is not my responsibility
[00:31:07] or even
[00:31:09] role unless there's abuse involved
[00:31:11] which I had only seen
[00:31:13] definitively
[00:31:15] a couple of times
[00:31:17] aside from that my role is not
[00:31:19] to help you fix your family
[00:31:21] because I'm not your parent
[00:31:23] and that relationship is
[00:31:25] for you to own
[00:31:27] my role as a coach
[00:31:29] is just to help you be comfortable in this environment
[00:31:31] and perhaps grow
[00:31:33] as a person
[00:31:35] either inside or outside the family
[00:31:37] environment and so therefore
[00:31:39] I can see that you don't respond
[00:31:41] well to other people around you
[00:31:43] that you might be inhibited
[00:31:45] or you might be an introvert
[00:31:47] or you might also just
[00:31:49] have a difficult time
[00:31:51] and therefore I'll help you
[00:31:53] over time my job is to help you
[00:31:55] over time become a real part of the group
[00:31:57] and more confident in yourself
[00:31:59] not necessarily assertive
[00:32:01] but just to be who you are
[00:32:03] because you're not going to ultimately be
[00:32:05] a successful sports person unless
[00:32:07] you've become yourself anyway
[00:32:09] if you're dealing with your own challenges
[00:32:11] and hiding
[00:32:13] then it's very difficult to go
[00:32:15] in front of 80,000 people and perform well
[00:32:17] because they're going to find those chinks immediately
[00:32:19] totally
[00:32:21] it's interesting to me that yes so much of it's about empathy
[00:32:23] for the kid
[00:32:25] well it should all be
[00:32:27] it should all be
[00:32:29] I don't always take that approach with the parents
[00:32:31] I can tell you that now
[00:32:33] often I tell them to get away from the environment
[00:32:35] because
[00:32:37] in many times
[00:32:39] they can be damaging
[00:32:41] damaging to the young person's
[00:32:43] sense of self
[00:32:45] especially the arena especially teenagers
[00:32:47] where they're
[00:32:49] beginning to test their
[00:32:51] limits and test things out
[00:32:53] away from mum and dad
[00:32:55] away from the family
[00:32:57] so you see parents who want to be there constantly
[00:32:59] and to monitor
[00:33:01] and those
[00:33:03] late teen years
[00:33:05] part of growing into
[00:33:07] that's an athletic environment
[00:33:09] but even growing into a full person is being
[00:33:11] on your own
[00:33:13] and that's a possibility for your own actions
[00:33:15] and not that dad sees
[00:33:17] what's happening with the coaching
[00:33:19] and therefore dad's going to come and see me
[00:33:21] and so I don't think this is right, I think my son could do X, Y, Z
[00:33:23] it's just another version of the backyard then
[00:33:25] yeah all that stuff
[00:33:27] so basically it's like look you guys all go away
[00:33:29] go to the cafe and it's just about the kids now
[00:33:31] and what your son wants to tell you
[00:33:33] and how you have that conversation is a matter for you
[00:33:35] but you don't walk into a maths class
[00:33:37] and so then you shouldn't be here
[00:33:39] and it's actually about
[00:33:41] growing up
[00:33:43] the children growing up
[00:33:45] is that the best feeling for you as a coach
[00:33:47] or as someone as a mentor for young kids
[00:33:49] is the best feeling to see them change
[00:33:51] before your eyes?
[00:33:53] yeah it really is and so after you've
[00:33:55] I coached males and females
[00:33:57] I have probably about 8 years in total
[00:33:59] on a more or less full time basis
[00:34:01] while I was working at SBS on air
[00:34:03] and so my relationships
[00:34:05] with those kids are very strong today
[00:34:07] not all
[00:34:09] the vast majority and many of them
[00:34:11] are in touch very regularly
[00:34:13] what do you think about this asking for advice
[00:34:15] or just you know I'm doing this
[00:34:17] here I am in Bali or whatever it is
[00:34:19] and that's very nice
[00:34:21] but I'll
[00:34:23] give you one anecdote which demonstrates
[00:34:25] how important see this is what the fathering project
[00:34:27] and the father of the year stuff was
[00:34:29] about is about just role models
[00:34:31] and you don't have
[00:34:33] to be a biological parent
[00:34:35] doesn't matter father or whatever
[00:34:37] to be a role model
[00:34:39] all children have many role models outside
[00:34:41] because when they're in school they're watching the teachers
[00:34:43] and going how do these people differ from my parents
[00:34:45] you know what's
[00:34:47] and they're working out the broader world
[00:34:49] it's true isn't it
[00:34:51] I mean when you think about sometimes
[00:34:53] we think about role models as special
[00:34:55] people and they are
[00:34:57] but I've always like special people who may
[00:34:59] or may not come into someone's life
[00:35:01] like you know you model might not run into
[00:35:03] these wizards that walk amongst us
[00:35:05] but when you think about it
[00:35:07] especially when you got little kids
[00:35:09] every adult they run into is a role model
[00:35:11] good or bad you know they are going to
[00:35:13] model their behavior
[00:35:15] yeah so I think they're working out their own group dynamics
[00:35:17] you know where do I fit within
[00:35:19] other kids and you know
[00:35:21] where's the power dynamics and you know
[00:35:23] what personality am I
[00:35:25] or people are going to pin me as
[00:35:27] all that stuff but also
[00:35:29] they're being treated
[00:35:31] or mistreated by adults
[00:35:33] all day every day
[00:35:35] and I've seen
[00:35:37] some of the worst of that you know I know
[00:35:39] you know I have friends
[00:35:41] and people
[00:35:43] I know who you know have been
[00:35:45] abused as children you know including
[00:35:47] sexual abuse and
[00:35:49] and I know them as adults
[00:35:51] and I've seen them have to deal with
[00:35:53] that and
[00:35:55] you know to me it's one of the
[00:35:57] one of the worst things you know that can possibly
[00:35:59] happen a child's not just innocence
[00:36:01] but sense of self
[00:36:03] dignity confidence
[00:36:05] and ability
[00:36:07] or opportunity to just grow safely
[00:36:09] is the
[00:36:11] most precious thing that a child can be given
[00:36:13] and so
[00:36:15] to the extent that we can first
[00:36:17] keep our children safe
[00:36:19] that's already
[00:36:21] a very significant step forward
[00:36:23] because that's journey
[00:36:25] that meant too many people have to go on
[00:36:27] that's really harrowing
[00:36:29] really harrowing
[00:36:31] so you know that's why I say when it comes
[00:36:33] to daughters I mean when my daughter was in
[00:36:35] I think it might have been year 11 but
[00:36:37] my first daughter she
[00:36:39] you know we were going through that
[00:36:41] mid teenage years when
[00:36:43] we all challenge authority and we're finding
[00:36:45] our own sense of self you know I did it
[00:36:47] and
[00:36:49] I fully expect my children to do it in some
[00:36:51] ways and as parents
[00:36:53] we're all trying to keep the communication
[00:36:55] open and kind of
[00:36:57] in such a construct that we can manage
[00:36:59] through that safely
[00:37:01] right everyone who's had late
[00:37:03] teenage kids knows that this is just
[00:37:05] part of the process of growing up anyway
[00:37:07] and so my daughter wanted to go to a party
[00:37:09] and it was people that I didn't know
[00:37:11] and so I didn't know this new set
[00:37:13] of friends and therefore
[00:37:15] you know as a parent
[00:37:17] or as a father that is a concern to me
[00:37:19] I don't know the environment you're working into
[00:37:21] I don't know what you're walking into
[00:37:23] and I don't want to have
[00:37:25] to regret afterwards
[00:37:27] because I've seen
[00:37:29] the effects of
[00:37:31] if something goes wrong
[00:37:33] I've seen it first hand and so therefore
[00:37:37] I said but I didn't want to deny her
[00:37:39] the opportunity to go with this group
[00:37:41] of friends as well and so
[00:37:43] I dropped her off here
[00:37:45] in Sydney actually was down in Maruba
[00:37:47] of this evening and
[00:37:49] I put in the back of the car
[00:37:51] some dark clothing
[00:37:53] and
[00:37:57] I just go on and they went on
[00:37:59] to the beach they went on to the beach there to have
[00:38:01] a bit you know do whatever they're doing
[00:38:03] and I just wanted to make
[00:38:05] sure that I kept an eye and make sure that she
[00:38:07] was safe so I actually set up like
[00:38:09] on the top of the thing just keeping an eye on her
[00:38:11] right and you know this
[00:38:13] yes you knew it yeah so I told her like the next day
[00:38:15] right and then you know
[00:38:17] we everyone today you know we laugh about
[00:38:19] it but that's what they say that that is what our dad
[00:38:21] is like right he's keeping watch from the
[00:38:23] sand dunes well you know what if I have
[00:38:25] to keep watch you know of my teenage
[00:38:27] daughter going into a moment that I don't know
[00:38:29] yes I will but what actually happened
[00:38:31] was I was
[00:38:33] driving cars for Audi at the time
[00:38:35] they were giving me a car and it was a black car
[00:38:37] and so now I had like a black beanie on
[00:38:39] and a black jacket and so what
[00:38:41] happened is I was
[00:38:43] everything was fine I was comfortable that you know
[00:38:45] she was safe how long did you look for
[00:38:47] half an hour I was probably there
[00:38:49] yeah 45 minutes an hour something like that and I
[00:38:51] would just text her and say is everything okay
[00:38:53] how are you going to get home do you want me to come pick you up
[00:38:55] she'd text you back in here the message up in the
[00:38:57] schedule hear the ding
[00:38:59] dad's ringtone
[00:39:01] and so what happened is
[00:39:03] I said okay it's everything's great thanks
[00:39:05] I'll come back at 11pm or whatever
[00:39:07] and so I started driving
[00:39:09] off and what happens I didn't know where I was
[00:39:11] I'd never been there before in this
[00:39:13] space so I came to a roundabout
[00:39:15] and I started to do I didn't
[00:39:17] know which exit to take
[00:39:19] and so I did like three roundabouts
[00:39:21] trying to work out where the hell am I
[00:39:23] going to go off here and what happened is a police car
[00:39:25] I heard the siren I was a police car
[00:39:27] behind me pull me over
[00:39:29] we're resting
[00:39:31] doing slow circle work yeah
[00:39:33] what did they think just nick the car like I mean you
[00:39:35] look pretty dodgy exactly and then they pulled me
[00:39:37] over and I was like dressed with a black beanie
[00:39:39] I was in a blacked out you know
[00:39:41] black Audi you know and
[00:39:43] they pulled me over and they and the
[00:39:45] policeman walked up and he said
[00:39:47] oh you know what are you doing
[00:39:49] and I said
[00:39:51] well you're on the truth or
[00:39:53] you just thought yeah and he said well yeah that's
[00:39:55] probably better and I said well look
[00:39:57] there's not how it sounds you're not going to like this but I've been spying on some 16 year olds
[00:40:01] that's exactly what I said I said
[00:40:03] officer I've been keeping on my daughter she went
[00:40:05] to a party that I don't know the people
[00:40:07] and so I wanted to make sure that she was safe
[00:40:09] before I head off home I just don't know where I am
[00:40:11] and anyway he went back
[00:40:13] and they came up with a policeman who knew me
[00:40:15] on you of me
[00:40:17] I said oh Craig what are you doing I said I just explained here
[00:40:19] you know I was doing this and he said oh we were
[00:40:21] staking out a drug place and we saw you in this black car
[00:40:23] and you had a black beanie on
[00:40:25] you know we thought you were you know
[00:40:27] you think you're going to make it make it drop
[00:40:29] I said oh no oh god
[00:40:31] anyway he said oh look that's great
[00:40:33] and I explained to them clearly
[00:40:35] zip ties in the back they're not from
[00:40:37] they were just in case the other kids would know good
[00:40:39] yeah exactly
[00:40:41] what's becoming clear to me is like it is a very funny story
[00:40:43] but it's also that evidence of
[00:40:45] like you walk the walk you really
[00:40:47] mean it when you say whatever it takes
[00:40:49] yeah that's who you are
[00:40:51] yeah I mean you were talking before
[00:40:53] about winning father of the year
[00:40:55] yeah and I think
[00:40:57] I might have distracted you slightly with the role model stuff
[00:40:59] but you were you know to you
[00:41:01] is I mean it is a strange thing
[00:41:03] to win wins probably the wrong word
[00:41:05] because and I'm sure it is an uncomfortable
[00:41:07] word or word
[00:41:09] word or a comfortable notion to
[00:41:11] to kind of go because it frames
[00:41:13] as a competition which of course isn't
[00:41:15] yeah exactly
[00:41:17] but to be awarded father of the year
[00:41:19] that to you is about role modelling
[00:41:21] is that what it comes down to
[00:41:23] yeah so it is an odd thing
[00:41:25] because all parents know
[00:41:27] that it is a journey and it's difficult
[00:41:29] and we're constantly learning
[00:41:31] and just doing our best
[00:41:33] and therefore like how could you possibly
[00:41:35] hold someone up as you know having
[00:41:37] you know being the model for how
[00:41:39] it could happen but
[00:41:41] all that happened was the fathering project
[00:41:43] behind it I think is a really important
[00:41:45] organisation which works I think
[00:41:47] it's like thousands of particularly males
[00:41:49] but every year and helping them
[00:41:51] have better relationships with their kids
[00:41:53] they do great stuff yeah and so then
[00:41:55] I thought well that's worthwhile to support
[00:41:57] them and the reason I
[00:41:59] said yes okay I think that's important
[00:42:01] but also because they wanted to
[00:42:03] also talk about
[00:42:05] role modelling across cultures
[00:42:07] yeah and that I think
[00:42:09] is not something that we don't talk about a lot
[00:42:11] and so I work with kids
[00:42:13] largely in sport but by that time we'd also
[00:42:15] brought out a bunch of
[00:42:17] young 2021
[00:42:19] late uni student Afghan
[00:42:21] girls to Australia and
[00:42:23] there's a community around them
[00:42:25] helping them get fund scholarships for
[00:42:27] them and accommodation and blah blah
[00:42:29] you know with the Afghan community
[00:42:31] and you know and I'm part of that
[00:42:33] so they're kind of part of our extended family
[00:42:35] and I think this concept
[00:42:37] of you know I
[00:42:39] work a lot in intercultural and interfaith
[00:42:41] spaces because multiculturalism
[00:42:43] is basic about that
[00:42:45] if we are truly multicultural then
[00:42:47] that means we have to all be able to mix together
[00:42:49] and we should all be
[00:42:51] in a very real sense equal
[00:42:53] and barriers
[00:42:55] should not be presented to any of
[00:42:57] our communities but to do that that means we'll have to stand up for each other
[00:42:59] yeah so when
[00:43:01] a community is attacked we should see all other communities
[00:43:03] come in and say well they're just one of us anyway
[00:43:05] like there's no and
[00:43:07] intercultural interfaith
[00:43:09] is how you frame that education
[00:43:11] you know all faiths standing together
[00:43:13] and for other communities non-faith
[00:43:15] and of course all cultures
[00:43:17] and so therefore the opportunity
[00:43:19] to just amplify
[00:43:21] the importance of
[00:43:23] crossing over
[00:43:25] and mentoring and helping and
[00:43:27] just being kind to kids
[00:43:29] of all different backgrounds
[00:43:31] if they're not your religion or not your colour
[00:43:33] actually is part
[00:43:35] of what Australia should be about
[00:43:37] so that's what attracted me
[00:43:39] to the somewhat ridiculous notion
[00:43:41] of saying that there should be something
[00:43:43] you know a father of the year
[00:43:45] between January the 1st
[00:43:47] and December 31
[00:43:49] exactly I mean I think that
[00:43:51] is beautiful and I'm sure that what you've found
[00:43:53] through working
[00:43:55] across all different communities
[00:43:57] I would have
[00:43:59] much more exposure than most people
[00:44:01] across different communities, different cultures
[00:44:03] is the
[00:44:05] commonality between everybody
[00:44:07] is that something you find
[00:44:09] often? Yeah that's very true
[00:44:11] so when we
[00:44:13] see human rights abuse and we see
[00:44:15] ideological extremism
[00:44:17] and all of these things
[00:44:19] the one thing that it's all
[00:44:21] based on ignorance and very
[00:44:23] largely it comes out of
[00:44:25] the environments which are monocultural
[00:44:27] and where people just don't mix
[00:44:29] and the one
[00:44:31] fact we can say
[00:44:33] of human reality is that
[00:44:35] the more we do mix
[00:44:37] and get to know each other the more commonality
[00:44:39] we find
[00:44:41] in fact we find that there is far more
[00:44:43] commonality than difference and the differences are very
[00:44:45] minor. People
[00:44:47] just want to be
[00:44:49] safe, people want to be loved
[00:44:51] people want to love, people want to be respected
[00:44:53] and
[00:44:55] they certainly
[00:44:57] those who think it's important to have children
[00:44:59] have a very
[00:45:01] strong devotion
[00:45:03] and tie to them. That's
[00:45:05] certainly the natural state anyway. That's a human being
[00:45:07] no matter where they come from? Doesn't matter
[00:45:09] where they come from and you can go anywhere in the world
[00:45:11] and you'll find exactly the same thing. The way they manifest
[00:45:13] that is of course hugely different
[00:45:15] and we may not agree with it
[00:45:17] yeah that's right so
[00:45:19] cultural differences can be
[00:45:21] quite vast. But upstream
[00:45:23] of that is all the common values
[00:45:25] that's what you find
[00:45:27] and so people want to get out of Afghanistan
[00:45:29] because they want to protect their families
[00:45:31] my people of Lismore
[00:45:33] who in the floods they were
[00:45:35] prepared to risk their lives for others there
[00:45:37] because they know there were kids there
[00:45:39] and they're their friends and they're their community
[00:45:41] and so they get into their own boats
[00:45:43] and go and rescue people in the middle of the night in the pitch black
[00:45:45] when you literally could have
[00:45:47] hit an eddy, gone over
[00:45:49] and been lost
[00:45:51] people take that sort of
[00:45:53] incredibly courageous risk
[00:45:55] for the same reasons that they've always done
[00:45:57] and therefore
[00:45:59] you can connect with anyone in the world
[00:46:01] through children
[00:46:03] as soon as anyone's a parent
[00:46:05] we are, we get it
[00:46:07] slightly different topic
[00:46:11] does anything spring to mind
[00:46:13] if I was to ask you can you think of the last
[00:46:15] quote unquote mistake you made
[00:46:17] as a parent and then you went okay actually
[00:46:19] I'm going to course correct for that
[00:46:21] adjust to that
[00:46:23] well the good thing is my
[00:46:25] our daughter now
[00:46:27] will she'll push back
[00:46:29] and say
[00:46:31] oh dad you're doing that again
[00:46:33] or you're going down that road
[00:46:35] or how do you respond to those push backs
[00:46:37] great, yeah
[00:46:39] so we talked about
[00:46:41] the difference in parenting over 20 years
[00:46:43] period and how you evolve
[00:46:45] and part of that is
[00:46:47] much earlier
[00:46:49] and also because society's evolved
[00:46:51] we feel they've got to pass tools
[00:46:53] on to our youngest child
[00:46:55] that our elder children didn't need
[00:46:57] to later so not just
[00:46:59] tools of critical thinking but
[00:47:01] as a young girl
[00:47:03] tools of being able to push back
[00:47:05] and being able to push back against male figures
[00:47:07] so you quite enjoy
[00:47:09] seeing the yeah I love it
[00:47:11] but she has to prosecute it properly
[00:47:13] you know and so
[00:47:15] she's in
[00:47:17] year 11 now so you have to be
[00:47:19] able to hold an argument
[00:47:21] you have to be able to understand
[00:47:23] the process of argumentation
[00:47:25] and prosecute your side of the argument
[00:47:27] and so now
[00:47:29] we'll have that conversation then over time
[00:47:31] hopefully they
[00:47:33] they start, they come to enjoy it
[00:47:35] because they realise that's where their freedom lies
[00:47:37] if they can make a good
[00:47:39] case and present it well
[00:47:41] that's exactly right
[00:47:43] and would you say you're a good
[00:47:45] sparring partner in that sense
[00:47:47] that you will allow
[00:47:49] the situation to move
[00:47:51] and you're happy to be surprised
[00:47:53] yeah I've got better
[00:47:55] definitely because often you're pushing against
[00:47:57] guidelines
[00:47:59] that we have that we think
[00:48:01] are going to keep them safe or that's in their best interest
[00:48:03] that's what they're all there for
[00:48:05] and therefore
[00:48:07] but I'm much better when Lara's involved
[00:48:09] and then it's all of us
[00:48:11] so it sounds very much like the opposite of that
[00:48:13] would be rules
[00:48:15] or rules as long as you live under
[00:48:17] this house that's what's going on
[00:48:19] but it sounds to me like you're
[00:48:21] far more interested in
[00:48:23] well this is in rules or hypotheses
[00:48:25] and if you can question them well
[00:48:27] we could move the rules
[00:48:29] that's exactly what it is but the underlying
[00:48:31] thing is where he or his parents could be
[00:48:33] safe and to care for you
[00:48:35] and to get you to early
[00:48:37] adulthood when you can go and
[00:48:39] spread your wings with all the
[00:48:41] tools
[00:48:43] that we can possibly provide
[00:48:45] that's the basis
[00:48:47] so she has to argue against that
[00:48:49] she has to take them into consideration
[00:48:51] that's going to be difficult to move
[00:48:53] so we haven't really been in too many conversations
[00:48:55] where that's being challenged too much
[00:48:59] but she's only 16 because she'll also
[00:49:01] understand that she's getting into that zone
[00:49:03] so she needs to build more confidence
[00:49:05] and you know what
[00:49:07] this is what's so beautiful about Australia today
[00:49:09] we see women everywhere
[00:49:11] pushing back and asserting
[00:49:13] their rights and I just
[00:49:15] love it, I think it's one of the greatest
[00:49:17] social movements we'll see
[00:49:19] in Australia and my daughter
[00:49:21] is a part of that and I want her to
[00:49:23] be a part of that
[00:49:25] I want her to be a leader
[00:49:27] as far as she's willing to be
[00:49:29] or wants to be
[00:49:31] so I want her to test it on me
[00:49:33] as someone
[00:49:35] male who thinks like a male
[00:49:37] and I want her to get used
[00:49:39] to pushing back against
[00:49:41] a male
[00:49:43] authority figure
[00:49:45] well don't worry please tell her on behalf of my daughter
[00:49:47] who's five, she's got another sister
[00:49:49] in the movement too
[00:49:51] she's already good
[00:49:53] could be president
[00:49:55] excellent
[00:49:57] one other thing that
[00:49:59] I ask people to do, have a think about it
[00:50:01] what the comment is
[00:50:03] and this can be interpreted anyway
[00:50:05] like an example of gold standard
[00:50:07] dating
[00:50:09] I think it's in the Audi
[00:50:11] no
[00:50:13] just kidding
[00:50:15] that was black ops dating
[00:50:17] that's right, that's black ops
[00:50:19] what gold standard
[00:50:21] to you what are you looking at
[00:50:23] there's something about that that really resonates
[00:50:25] with like that's how I want to be a dad
[00:50:27] and that's what I think is important
[00:50:29] that our kids are
[00:50:31] safe, happy
[00:50:33] know they're loved
[00:50:35] and we
[00:50:37] you know and we can have
[00:50:39] a relationship as adults
[00:50:41] on an equal basis
[00:50:43] and when they can look back
[00:50:45] and say do you know what
[00:50:47] mum and dad
[00:50:49] you guys did an amazing job
[00:50:51] I love that, I love also that
[00:50:53] you know what we came back to first principles
[00:50:55] I think it's your superpower
[00:50:57] your first principles
[00:50:59] and you're able to stick with it
[00:51:01] mate I really love that, thanks so much Craig
[00:51:03] cool, no worries
[00:51:11] such a good chat, really appreciate Craig's time
[00:51:13] and he's
[00:51:15] he's intelligent, he's a man that really thinks carefully about
[00:51:17] what he's saying and I was really
[00:51:19] stoked that he would give up the time
[00:51:21] but the generosity of the way he
[00:51:23] approached thinking about these issues
[00:51:25] I think we're all
[00:51:27] here we are at the end, we're all much better people for it
[00:51:29] so thank you so much Craig
[00:51:31] I loved so much about that
[00:51:33] especially the coaching side of things
[00:51:35] the working with kids in the community
[00:51:37] and teaching your kids that in a community
[00:51:39] we care about all the other communities
[00:51:41] in our culture we care about all the other cultures
[00:51:43] and that's what unifies us
[00:51:45] that's what makes us all people
[00:51:47] feels always relevant and always timely
[00:51:49] but maybe at the moment even more so timely
[00:51:51] so thank you Craig
[00:51:53] thanks for giving up time, thanks to everyone that listened
[00:51:55] as always you can email the show
[00:51:57] we love getting your emails
[00:51:59] more than that we love the fact that you just turn up here
[00:52:01] week after week so really from our hearts
[00:52:03] from the bottom of our hearts to your
[00:52:05] the outside of your ears
[00:52:07] now the inside of your ears, thank you
[00:52:15] this episode of How Are The Dad's Dad was produced by Tim Bartley
[00:52:17] and his good friend Hamish Blake
[00:52:19] our theme is
[00:52:21] by the insanely clever
[00:52:23] and hilarious Tom Cardi
[00:52:25] please do check him out everywhere that you
[00:52:27] can check people out
[00:52:29] we recorded this on the lands of the Gadigal people
[00:52:31] of the Eora Nation
[00:52:33] who have passed their parenting stories down for thousands of generations
[00:52:35] and we pay our respects
[00:52:37] if you want to drop us a line head to our website howarethedadstad.com
[00:52:39] thanks again for listening
[00:52:51] as always thank you to
[00:52:53] Hurts
[00:52:55] our gorgeous sponsor
[00:52:57] for How Are The Dad's Dad
[00:52:59] this season of course
[00:53:01] with sponsorship comes
[00:53:03] a code
[00:53:05] I've never had this before
[00:53:07] in my whole career I've actually never given away the code
[00:53:09] so it's an open code
[00:53:11] but if you go to Hurts.com.au
[00:53:13] when you're booking a car
[00:53:15] forward slash hodd how are the dad's dad
[00:53:17] you get 25% off
[00:53:19] the base day rate now that
[00:53:21] is a bloody good deal
[00:53:23] and I'm stoked to be able to offer it on
[00:53:25] to the valuable dads, mums, uncles,
[00:53:27] aunties, sons, daughters
[00:53:29] whoever it is that's listening to this podcast
[00:53:31] Hurts.com.au
[00:53:33] and you get that discount
[00:53:35] it actually runs for a year
[00:53:37] I mean do it now obviously like so it makes me look good
[00:53:39] makes the show look good it has an effect
[00:53:41] but I think if you look at the terms and conditions
[00:53:43] and they do apply and you should look at them on the website
[00:53:45] I think it actually runs
[00:53:47] for quite a while at discount so you know one
[00:53:49] listen huge rewards from
[00:53:51] Hurts