How Ben Crowe Dads

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[00:00:54] Let's go hurts, but not yet because let's go into today's app

[00:00:59] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad

[00:01:07] So he made me show where he talks to all the dad so

[00:01:20] Hello alright welcome to another episode of how are the dads dad today's guest?

[00:01:25] It's a doozy he's really a master in the mindset and leadership

[00:01:30] Worldwide Aussie legend Ben Crow. I know a lot of people be familiar with Ben's work. He's

[00:01:36] worked with an unbelievable amount of business leaders and

[00:01:41] Super high performance athletes in terms of helping them with their mindsets most notably

[00:01:47] Probably from from my experience of seeing his work is with Ash Barty, but he's really worked with these works with an unbelievable amount of people

[00:01:55] It's fascinating to hear Ben talk because he obviously has a enormous wealth of wisdom on understanding

[00:02:01] What makes us tick while we make the decisions we do while we slip into the biases we slip into had to

[00:02:08] Help deal with those how to bring more awareness to what we're doing

[00:02:12] But really all the stuff I've heard with Ben and it is great stuff a lot of the time

[00:02:16] He's the one doing the talking or he's the one doing the questioning so today

[00:02:19] It was a little a little different for Ben and he talks about to he was like this is really strange

[00:02:24] Me like it he was talking about how he felt exposed and you know a bit vulnerable being on the other side of the question

[00:02:30] So massive appreciation for Ben for coming on

[00:02:35] opening up being willing to

[00:02:37] Examine what it is that makes him tick as a dad. I know he's an awesome dad

[00:02:43] I know many anecdotal pieces of evidence to suggest that he is but of course like all of us

[00:02:47] He's still making every mistake in the book and then following that away and in things that we can learn from so

[00:02:53] I think it's interesting to hear from someone that coaches people for high performance, but then of course

[00:02:58] Like all of us when we get home

[00:03:00] We could easy to say one thing and you get presented with a completely different set of circumstances on the home front

[00:03:07] And it's it's extremely humbling. I love this chat with Ben

[00:03:10] I hope you get a lot out of it. Let's find out how Ben crow dad

[00:03:17] How

[00:03:21] Ben crow welcome. Thank you. Hey, miss. Thanks for having me. This is exciting now

[00:03:26] At the risk of um, that's running you straight in at the deep end

[00:03:30] I

[00:03:32] Mean just off here would chatting down. I think it's a great place to pick it up where

[00:03:36] Many people will be familiar with your work

[00:03:38] Many people would be across the mojo crow and the work you do and the work you do with athletes

[00:03:43] But you were mentioning this is a slightly different situation for you because it's not necessarily professional this sort of thing

[00:03:49] This is yours a dad. This is yours a human being

[00:03:51] I feel like you're at the breakfast table this morning when my wife and kids were saying don't you bring out any of that?

[00:03:58] Mojo mumbo jumbo if you even mention the word vulnerability or

[00:04:02] imperfection or

[00:04:03] acceptance or

[00:04:05] Controlables, you know, this is not it. This is not that time

[00:04:08] You are allowed to mention those two I guess the flip side is you going I'm basically I'm invulnerable and perfect

[00:04:15] I'm shitting myself because they said it's not about that and they said don't talk too much. Don't ramble on whatever

[00:04:20] So I had to confused already we haven't even started. Oh, yeah, probably is it for me to override your family

[00:04:26] But I do give you permission to talk a lot

[00:04:28] Give you permission to share your wisdom

[00:04:31] Maybe a good place to start is one of the one of the things that I ask people to you know come to the show with

[00:04:37] the only bit of preparation is the your three

[00:04:41] Cornersons, you're three philosophies of being a dad and how that informs your parenting

[00:04:47] Yeah, I love that. I love that question. The first one would probably be embarrassing

[00:04:51] That's probably output. No, I think the first one for me would be

[00:04:54] playful. Yeah, and do you reckon or jokes aside? Do you reckon embarrassing is tied to playfulness 100%?

[00:05:00] Yeah, yeah, absolutely

[00:05:02] And I think of and you know, there's no such thing as dad school where you learn to be a dad, right? And I remember

[00:05:09] My first boy when Sally told me she was pregnant and we're living in Hong Kong at at the time

[00:05:13] And I remember just like like most outshitting myself and then from there

[00:05:18] I was going well like I've classic imposter syndrome my dad died when I was 16

[00:05:22] so I was going back to

[00:05:24] obviously your role models you go back to him from lessons and he was incredibly playful and

[00:05:29] Always laughing and it was very deliberate, you know in terms of the atmosphere around the around the house and it was

[00:05:36] deliberately playful you

[00:05:38] Consciously playful. Do you recognize that at the time or is that something that you've

[00:05:43] Realized with the benefit of hindsight retrospectively knowing how hard he had to work, you know

[00:05:48] We didn't have a lot of money. He ran a cleaning company. I was the youngest of six kids

[00:05:51] So we did it pretty tough but seeing him come home from work and trying to bring lightness and laughter and humor

[00:05:59] So forth. That's just a gift that he had right and you know running into people in their 90s now

[00:06:04] He'd be 98 I think now

[00:06:06] That new dad all the stories that they share with me and I hang on to every word they're saying right

[00:06:12] It's always about the same thing laughter and and love or caring so for me the playfulness of

[00:06:18] Of him I immediately Sally gave me a book. This is 1998 and it was called so you're gonna be a dad

[00:06:24] And I think it might have been written by a comedian, but it was also a doctor

[00:06:27] The first chapter is I'm a son not a dad

[00:06:31] Yeah, and that got me thinking about yeah in terms of the role clarity

[00:06:35] And the whole it's a very light-hearted approach back in the 90s. I hadn't read a book like that and

[00:06:40] So for me that was as a philosophy that you mentioned being playful

[00:06:45] From right from an early age and of course you're talking to a baby in it in a baby's voice

[00:06:50] Right through to and there was the obvious ones of playing football and playing games

[00:06:55] Right through to you know taking up surfing and snowboarding and photography and these were all my passions

[00:07:02] I had no idea whether they'd be interested in them

[00:07:04] Right through to telling stories. We you know really playful way

[00:07:08] I think if I look back on my favorite memories with my kids

[00:07:10] They're always memories when we're playing laughing having fun

[00:07:14] I think is as much as I can bring or encourage a playfulness around there because the opposite of plays at work

[00:07:21] It's kind of fear. Yeah, you're right. It's been frozen

[00:07:23] I didn't know that at you know at the time of becoming a dad

[00:07:26] But I look back on it and not taking life too seriously is a really big one for me quick detour

[00:07:32] Yeah, sorry didn't ask dad stats. How many how old how old how old are your kids now? So Harry's

[00:07:38] 24

[00:07:39] Hope I got this right. I hope Harry's 24 Sam's 22 and Ned's 20. Okay, awesome

[00:07:45] So go go back to you know, do you remember? Yeah, do you remember your dad's?

[00:07:51] Specific playfulness like do you remember the games or the there's some things you look back now and go gee that would have been a huge effort

[00:07:57] to do that I remember Sunday lunches and

[00:08:02] Dad was always having practical jokes, you know either with the food or

[00:08:07] Conversations or you know, he'd hide the bin. It's so ridiculous right, but he literally hide the bin in the kitchen

[00:08:12] So everyone's looking for the freaking bin and I don't know why he did it

[00:08:16] But it did create this banter and conversation

[00:08:19] So it's also in the smallest of moments

[00:08:21] He was trying to find a playful approach and I suppose that's what is what a good game does is it disrupts a pattern

[00:08:26] You know and and that and that sparked something in you

[00:08:30] we had Joe Brahman the creator of bluey and

[00:08:33] He said something though

[00:08:34] I've thought about it a lot after as we he was like I just troll my kids like I actually

[00:08:38] Troll them and was like

[00:08:40] We really do like that is that is kind of what we're doing and I think about this a lot too

[00:08:44] You want to in the middle of it when I catch myself doing I'm like

[00:08:47] Why am I doing this to the kids because it's a lot of the time?

[00:08:50] It's met with eye rolls or slight frustration. Yeah, you know, there's something in there

[00:08:54] Yeah, I don't know why we have that impulse

[00:08:57] But it's obviously something that's super important to you because are you worried that if it's not there then

[00:09:04] life's

[00:09:05] You know life gets too serious

[00:09:06] I think yeah

[00:09:08] I think one of my favorite quotes is there's not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea

[00:09:13] That life is serious and that quote's about 150 years old right so I was thinking why do we take life so seriously?

[00:09:20] And for me, I genuinely find one of the greatest ways to connect with someone is

[00:09:25] To play I have a playful conversation like we did off air right immediately when you start getting to that

[00:09:30] Playfulness where there's kind of no rules and you can kind of it can go anywhere or you can make up rules

[00:09:35] Yep as well

[00:09:36] I just think it's one of the most beautiful ways to connect but also if you treat life like that way

[00:09:41] And I think during COVID you're going for a playful walk or having a playful conversation

[00:09:45] I think it's one of the greatest needs in the world today is to bring more play and playfulness back into ourselves

[00:09:51] I feel blessed that my dad passed on that

[00:09:54] philosophy

[00:09:55] Of a family and life through through playfulness, you know, I know there are some people that think they're not good players

[00:10:01] Um, I hear this come up a little bit

[00:10:03] Dad's moms who are like, I just am not a good player

[00:10:07] What's your thoughts on that?

[00:10:09] Well, I'm not allowed to say violent rules. So I gotta think of a think of I'll give you five

[00:10:13] You can say five times. No, it'll be it'll be listened to I know and I'll be berated for it. So

[00:10:19] Well, yeah lean in and and tap into imagination when there's no rules

[00:10:24] So permission to be permission to screw it up permission to get it wrong

[00:10:28] I just think it taps into curiosity and imagination

[00:10:31] Two of the greatest skills that you can teach kids at a young age wherever they come from

[00:10:36] Again, I didn't know that at the time as a dad but looking back on what I think the gift of playfulness you can give your kids

[00:10:42] As much as it is, you know connection and love and no rules and so forth is powerful as well

[00:10:48] In in that spirit of you know, you're talking about snowboarding surfing and and finding your passions and bringing them into your passions

[00:10:54] Yeah

[00:10:55] I'm interested in this because my kids are at that like age where

[00:11:00] You know that band that sort of five to ten year old band where you're putting a lot of stuff in front of them

[00:11:05] Some stuff might stick some stuff might not the question I'm often asking myself is

[00:11:10] Is this worth pursuing like is there a little flicker here? Am I pushing it?

[00:11:14] Am I blind to some other passion they might have that I haven't found?

[00:11:19] How did you go with that navigating those years where you

[00:11:23] Trying to get a beat on what it is they're into but at the same time going all right. Well, not everyone loves

[00:11:30] You know soccer the very first training, but you know hey training five this might click for you

[00:11:35] So we're gonna persist with this. How did you navigate that balance? It's a really good question and I think it's more luck than design

[00:11:41] um

[00:11:42] They knew I was really passionate about surfing for instance

[00:11:46] So you're pushing them on the boards at the age of two or four

[00:11:48] But I also had no interest whatsoever whether they continued it on or not

[00:11:52] But um, they fell in love with surfing and then they know I love music

[00:11:56] So we've got guitars all around we've got 10 guitars around the crowhouse

[00:11:59] Oh, they all fell in love with playing guitar as well

[00:12:02] All right, but I would argue the stupidest thing I ever did was teach my kids to surf better than me

[00:12:09] Right because now I don't get away when we go surfing together. They all cut it drop in on me

[00:12:13] And so forth, but I also love that they're gonna and you know, they're better musicians than me now

[00:12:20] Golfers than me and footballers have had much more success and so forth

[00:12:23] But part of that on an ego point of view really pisses me off

[00:12:26] But on a personal level, okay, so maybe that's the role right now had they not followed that pursuit

[00:12:32] I know I work with a lot of athletes who deliberately, you know

[00:12:36] Don't want their kids to follow in their footsteps because of you know, I guess the

[00:12:40] What they have the pressure, you know of trying to live up to my expectations of my

[00:12:45] Of my parents and so forth is too great. So I was acutely aware of that as well

[00:12:49] So I think I'm just I'm lucky, you know, but even Sally who's

[00:12:54] Phenomenal role model for the kids far more than I'll I'll ever be, you know

[00:12:57] She got involved in helping the kids kick at at Oz kick and not a great kick or cricket

[00:13:02] Right, and I think her bowling would be a no ball if it was classified properly

[00:13:05] But she took up surfing as well, right and you know how well when when the kids were little

[00:13:10] Yeah, we'd go surfing at point road nine and you know on a on a Malibu and just for the boys to see

[00:13:16] Sally having no history of this by the way in her 40s

[00:13:20] That's great take up some of these sports and now golf as well

[00:13:23] And she's so frustrated when she comes home from a golf lesson or a golf round

[00:13:27] But they see Sally getting out of her comfort zone and trying to get better and so forth and in terms of

[00:13:33] You know success or redefining success

[00:13:36] They see the effort more so than than I guess the output

[00:13:39] I think that's what we tried to endure in the kids as well in terms of

[00:13:43] That uncomfortableness of being a beginner because that's what all kids are beginners at the stuff they take up

[00:13:49] That's the world. I'm in with my kids at the moment where I'm

[00:13:53] Trying different strategies and different tactics to

[00:13:57] celebrate the

[00:13:59] Essentially celebrate being shit without using that language to them but to explain the theory of going well

[00:14:05] You can't start experienced

[00:14:08] Because that's that doesn't work like that you start terrible

[00:14:11] And we we get better and we celebrate little wins totally and

[00:14:17] It's it's it's funny going through that like you know

[00:14:19] I've had this conversation with mates because we tend to only teach kids stuff that we can do

[00:14:24] Perfectly like this is how you swim. This is how you throw a ball like we can do all that stuff

[00:14:29] But I love that your wife

[00:14:30] Started as a beginner alongside them totally such a cool thing

[00:14:33] So they saw that I can't say vulnerability and that's too mentioned but they saw that

[00:14:38] What help me help me?

[00:14:40] Experience and uncomfortableness sort of yeah, if I think there's a word for it

[00:14:45] You can answer half my questions just just just a way of being honest about your shortcomings and being okay with that

[00:14:52] But not being afraid to try but not being afraid to try and putting their experience

[00:14:58] Ahead of your own and not being afraid to look silly in the process again

[00:15:03] Wouldn't it be great if there was one word that summed up all those notions?

[00:15:07] But it's not bloody English language only only they've thought harder about it totally well

[00:15:12] I think by virtue of I mean one of the human needs is to grow right like it's the it's what it's one of the

[00:15:17] Six human needs every every human has is to grow

[00:15:20] By definition of growing you're going to put yourself out of your comfort zone

[00:15:25] So you're going to be doing something for the first time

[00:15:27] Yeah, or the second time and you're not going to be an expert of it by definition

[00:15:31] Right, so I think if you can encourage your kids to

[00:15:35] You know put yourself out there to try new things to play around with to see whether you like it or not

[00:15:40] Right, that's part of playfulness as well. I think true and I'm speaking more to myself here, but

[00:15:45] One of the things I keep coming back to is just to remember that

[00:15:49] Progress is slow or whatever and to have a laugh and to enjoy that the process of being a beginner. Yeah to not

[00:15:57] Want to rush to the next stage or to not for there to be no

[00:16:01] Time frame of when you progress to the next stage as long as you've got that forward momentum. Totally. I wish I

[00:16:07] I I'd like to think I did it a little bit

[00:16:10] Naturally, but I definitely didn't do it by design

[00:16:13] Is rewarding effort not outcome? Yeah, right and

[00:16:18] Being the privileged position I am in now where I meet so many

[00:16:22] Parental experts when I meet these people as well

[00:16:26] I've made every every single mistake a dad would would make right in terms of because

[00:16:31] The pop culture is rewarding when you when your son gets a trophy or get an a or so forth and

[00:16:36] Those six words which I learned

[00:16:38] Later on in life as my kids were probably teenagers that you know, I love to watch you play

[00:16:42] Yeah, because that's the unconditional love as opposed to you know, I love to watch a process

[00:16:48] I don't like the result. Yeah, yeah and and

[00:16:52] We're celebrating that

[00:16:54] More so than whether they win a trophy or they're in the 18 or they kick a goal and so forth because I think one of the biggest issues today is

[00:17:01] Kids believe that their self-worth is predicated on

[00:17:05] Achievement and if they don't get it then their dads won't love them

[00:17:08] You know that classic perfect perform repeats syndrome. It's a really interesting one because kids are also

[00:17:14] I think it's a there's a there's a duality to it because kids respond well to certificates and stickers and pencils and like so much of primary school

[00:17:24] At least in my experience seems to be there's a reward system. There's like this credits and there's you want a sticker and

[00:17:32] So i'm in the situation now with my with my daughter who's like he's coming home being like

[00:17:36] Guess what? There's only one person that got a sticker for like being the best leader and I got the sticker

[00:17:43] Again, I don't think I did this consciously at all. So I didn't know

[00:17:48] any of this as a as a dad

[00:17:50] learning to be a dad but

[00:17:52] again looking back or talking to the experts of

[00:17:57] Of how to connect with with your kids

[00:18:00] I think it would be very much about like in that situation with your daughter and the sticker

[00:18:03] It was about well, what did you learn about yourself?

[00:18:06] In that situation, did you have to get out of your comfort zone?

[00:18:09] You know, did you have to try really hard? Did you have to concentrate?

[00:18:13] Did you have to so we can reward the intrinsic so they can be motivated by

[00:18:17] The intrinsic elements of what they did to get there

[00:18:20] Rather than the actual outcome and I think if we can get back to celebrate. Yeah

[00:18:24] Celebrating the process celebrating getting out of their comfort zone or helping someone else and triple points if they can come up with it

[00:18:30] Themselves that would be huge totally. Yeah, I think for me

[00:18:34] You know, I think I always wonder whether pride is a good thing or not. Yeah, we my wife and I have this

[00:18:40] Seven deadly sins. Yeah

[00:18:42] Pride if I look back the things that I'm most proud of my three boys that that get me quite emotional

[00:18:48] Is not the achievements

[00:18:50] It's how they went about themselves getting to the achievements when I get feedback from coaches or parents

[00:18:56] About how they helped someone. Yeah, it could be I had a coach come up to me

[00:19:00] Once with one of my boys and said look, can you ask your son to stop handballing?

[00:19:05] Because just sharing around too much. He's a beautiful kick and he can kick goals and we have four goals down

[00:19:10] We know he can can you just ask him to kick it?

[00:19:12] All right

[00:19:13] He was so keen for everyone else to be involved

[00:19:17] That he he didn't want to actually kick a goal

[00:19:20] You know and I think if we can celebrate in that situation is helping a boy that got up and and got again

[00:19:26] Or helping a kid who wasn't getting a kick or or so forth

[00:19:29] I mean this I keep having like eight things. I want to come back to but can you

[00:19:34] Put that quality because I think that's a quality that every parent would love to have any kids that they've got children

[00:19:39] That are interested in others

[00:19:40] Do you can you put that down to things or is this the culmination of the culture you create at home?

[00:19:46] Yeah, good question. That probably leads to my second

[00:19:48] I was that's the other thing I'm meant to come back to

[00:19:50] Perfect. Good. Let's go two birds with one stone. What's our second one? My second word would be love

[00:19:56] Yes

[00:19:57] And

[00:19:58] Obviously that's a catch all for you know being interested

[00:20:04] Being available

[00:20:06] Caring for others helping others loving others, you know to love and to be loved and

[00:20:12] That one I have consciously

[00:20:14] We're playful. It was probably something I intuitively knew but I didn't wasn't consciously doing maybe like my dad was in retrospect

[00:20:21] But love I was consciously trying to and what were the things you consciously tried to come back to?

[00:20:25] Look for little things whether you know to helping helping people and finding just a ton of little ways to to help people and

[00:20:33] More so than you than yourself. I think that's a great

[00:20:35] I mean we talk about love a lot on the show because of course

[00:20:38] This is that's what it's all about at the core of the relationship, but

[00:20:41] The that the two sides of it to be loved is obviously

[00:20:46] such a that's right at the

[00:20:49] The nucleus of who we are as people

[00:20:51] But to show them how to give love to I think is a is a really important one

[00:20:55] That's that interests me. Is that something you actively

[00:20:58] Teach, you know and you want to model to the kids to show them how to love people as well

[00:21:02] Yeah, that's probably something I definitely did know that you can't love someone else until you love yourself

[00:21:08] Fully so, you know knowing that they're all worthy not only of love and belonging with Sally and myself and their cousins and so forth

[00:21:16] And celebrating that

[00:21:17] But then once you know that to then pass it on and to help someone else or to love someone else and

[00:21:23] You know put yourself out there for someone else and I think that's

[00:21:26] You know find yourself lose yourself and find someone else to love as a as a framework or a philosophy is pretty

[00:21:32] Pretty simple, right? But you can only do that in my opinion

[00:21:36] Unconditionally if you could give it to yourself first

[00:21:40] Unconditionally and we feel if you feel that and you have memories of that when you remember feeling loved and feeling safe

[00:21:47] And belonging and worthy that you know classic attachment theory

[00:21:51] Then I think you've got the courage to go after you know and goals and dreams and kind of cut the

[00:21:56] The umbilical cord and then go on your own journey and then to give that love

[00:22:00] Yeah, yeah to love and to be loved. I guess is was was absolutely a philosophy

[00:22:04] I was trying to instill in the in the kids and

[00:22:07] Yeah, if it was you know, if I was to move away today forever picked up by aliens

[00:22:11] I'd be in terms of my definition of success

[00:22:14] I'd be very very happy that my kids understand that and and and kind of behave that way as well beautiful

[00:22:20] What's number three? Number three would would definitely be um

[00:22:24] Courage or or encourage. I don't think i'm a very courageous person, but I would love to encourage

[00:22:31] My boys to be courageous

[00:22:33] And I think that they have demonstrated it in lots of little ways already, but you don't think you're a courageous person

[00:22:39] No, I don't look at myself and saying I'm a courageous person

[00:22:41] I think i'm a wimp in big surf or you know

[00:22:44] I'd like to put my push myself out there in in more ways than than I do in certain situations

[00:22:49] But no, I definitely if you're over indexing between, you know courage and consideration

[00:22:54] I'll probably go more the

[00:22:55] Considerate lens and and would love to have more courage in in my life

[00:22:59] How do you define courage? Like what does courage mean to you to you know?

[00:23:03] If you had to explain it to the to the kids or when they were little to go

[00:23:06] This is the kind of quality I would love to see all right if you have to define it

[00:23:09] I've probably got a little bit of courage because that that v word might come into the

[00:23:13] Interplay a little bit into a little bit more but um at the moment

[00:23:17] It's the courage to be more me the courage to really I guess make sense of my story

[00:23:21] I think i'm the classic, you know doctor who serves everyone else or the technician or the electrician who helps everyone else's cars

[00:23:26] But that's interesting doesn't help themselves

[00:23:28] So that's what I said to you off air that this this podcast for me with you today is you know

[00:23:33] Confronting for me. You talk for a living you talk about these things for living, but it's probably a lot

[00:23:38] It's externally focused. It's it's you know from from bend to the world totally

[00:23:42] You know some you know some my ash would say it's a it's a mask that i'm wearing sometimes and you know

[00:23:47] My relationship with my dad as well

[00:23:48] You know, I think I could be a lot more courageous to make sense of that

[00:23:52] Relationship as well through how old were you when you lost him? Do you say 16?

[00:23:55] 16 yeah

[00:23:57] Yeah, so but so definitely encouraging

[00:24:00] As a dad I think my third philosophy if I can encourage my

[00:24:05] kids

[00:24:06] To push themselves out of their comfort zone to live a life true to themselves

[00:24:12] To follow their goals and dreams

[00:24:15] And have the courage to be disliked and I think

[00:24:20] You know it was a book that my son gave me

[00:24:22] Many many years ago to read that i've now passed on to ryan and a lot of your your friends as well

[00:24:27] I've had a lot of your clients on this podcast. They've all read that book right?

[00:24:31] I try not to charge them

[00:24:33] but um

[00:24:35] So they care more about what they think about themselves and what they say to themselves than than and let go of

[00:24:40] Obsessing what anyone else thinks about them if I could help them in some way

[00:24:45] I think if they've got that authenticity

[00:24:47] Through being courageous

[00:24:49] Yeah, is that what it's about you because i'm sure again a lot of people would hear this and go

[00:24:52] Yes, I would love my kids to have that especially as the world seems wilder as you

[00:24:57] Our kids grow up to go

[00:24:59] They have a solid internal compass and that's that's what matters. That's their north star

[00:25:05] What things help and don't help that as a kid is growing up?

[00:25:09] Let's say through their teenage years to develop that aspect teaching them that

[00:25:14] You know if they find happiness in something it does not matter what anyone else thinks

[00:25:20] At all right if you find something funny, it doesn't matter if no one else laughs

[00:25:25] Right if you genuinely get joy out of something continue that on because we're all on you know different

[00:25:31] journeys right so

[00:25:32] It's like if you're if your son's being bullied or you know your daughter's being bullied in the school and they have no tools to

[00:25:38] To kind of help them right just say to the kid who's who's putting pressure on you like

[00:25:43] Why do you care so much?

[00:25:46] If you ask a bully that question they would look at oh, yeah

[00:25:49] Why am I bullying you? Why do I care what your run is you've got on or what you look like or so forth?

[00:25:54] Yeah, right as it's kind of like saying well

[00:25:56] What's going on for you that you want to transfer that pain onto me by bullying me

[00:26:00] Yeah, so if you can give kids certain school skills to that is a great one actually again

[00:26:05] And I hope i'm not over showing for my daughter's life

[00:26:07] Big issue in 10 years. You're gonna be in a lot of trouble. I know well

[00:26:10] I hopefully rule if you're listening to this when you're older. I mean she does she does hold a grudge

[00:26:15] Uh

[00:26:17] I'll quite often get working up at four in the morning and reminded of something I did when she was two

[00:26:21] This podcast will go off here in about 12 years

[00:26:24] You like well dad sorry to wake you but I was just thinking remember that time you said I could have my teasers and

[00:26:30] Then they were gone. It's like

[00:26:34] But she

[00:26:37] It's funny you I mean the little people little problems

[00:26:39] But I think about this stuff all the time because I know these will evolve

[00:26:44] But yeah, it really affected her the other day. She was at lunch and she had a

[00:26:47] Jam which she likes which is hummus and cheese and some other kids

[00:26:51] I think probably made it extremely

[00:26:54] Understandable, you know just banal comment over lunch of like oh, yeah, he's like hummus and cheese is disgusting

[00:27:02] Cut yeah

[00:27:05] And I felt that pain even though we know like it's a comment over a sandwich

[00:27:08] I was like

[00:27:10] Your heart breaks because really upset it and it's this was now a month ago

[00:27:14] But it's still getting bought up quite a lot about why those girls are sort of blacklisted

[00:27:19] And try but they also love her and they're her friends

[00:27:22] And I see them playing together having the greatest time ever

[00:27:24] But it's still it's really cut her and I'm like that happens to all of us, you know totally

[00:27:29] I'm not fitting in

[00:27:31] or in this moment. I feel like I'm the odd person out and

[00:27:34] Perhaps all kids like this but no particularly my daughter's obviously susceptible with that kind of her

[00:27:39] And we're having this conversation as well where I'm trying to

[00:27:42] I'm trying to bring her around to that idea of going

[00:27:45] But that's okay, you know like we all like different sandwiches. That's what makes the world great

[00:27:49] Yeah, and we we don't have to like the same things as our friends and all that sort of stuff

[00:27:53] I think that's a critical point. Yeah, it's unfortunately it's can on chudev today

[00:27:58] You know that beautiful quote

[00:27:59] Finding yourself is an act of love expressing it as an act of rebellion

[00:28:04] We almost need to teach our kids to be rebellious to getting into the group think

[00:28:08] Of caring about these opinions and judgments

[00:28:11] But it's powerful

[00:28:14] Well because we also have that craving for connection, right exactly like everyone else

[00:28:17] We want to belong and if we don't feel that we'll try and do something to fit in

[00:28:21] So she'll bring a different lunch to school the next day and then hopefully the kids will

[00:28:24] Like what her taste buds

[00:28:27] And that's why we can kind of laugh at it because it's you know, but never in front of her like but behind

[00:28:32] closed doors once the kids are embedded we're making school lunches. So I'm like this is

[00:28:36] You know, this is if the sandwich has rattled us like oh my god, we got we've got some big stuff coming down the line totally

[00:28:43] and I think that's you know, I'm

[00:28:46] Before I kick I would love some of these skills to answer your question about what skills you can give the kids

[00:28:52] um to

[00:28:53] Teach that results just the only person they should ever compare themselves against

[00:28:59] Is who they were yesterday and just aim to be that little bit better

[00:29:02] Today, but they can only do that home if they should I'm not allowed to say this word either except

[00:29:08] themselves

[00:29:10] Unconditionally, this is what I look like

[00:29:12] Yeah, this is my lot and like these are the cards. I've been dealt. This is what I've got for lunch

[00:29:17] And just accept that in to celebrate that because it's part of me. I like that food

[00:29:22] That's that's you know, everyone has their thing that makes them authentic and if you can

[00:29:27] really

[00:29:28] celebrate that and

[00:29:30] Motivate them to continue that they don't have to eat what someone else is eating totally because they don't like that and did

[00:29:37] I'm just fascinated to know because you've got kids now that come at the end of teenage years in the young adults

[00:29:42] Yeah, did you have these conversations with your kids a lot?

[00:29:46] Did they did you model it by example or what were the actual

[00:29:50] What was the transfer of this knowledge like I suppose like to get it to stick? It's a good question

[00:29:57] No, as I said to you at the start I made every single mistake a dad could could make because

[00:30:03] Your greatest strength is your greatest weakness. You love the kids so much

[00:30:06] So you get caught up in the narrative of I'm being bullied, right?

[00:30:09] So you and I'm getting shitty at the kids or their parents or or or so forth and you're interfering

[00:30:15] In your kids life in that way

[00:30:17] So I'd like to say I took a step back and I was measured and I was encouraging and available and open and

[00:30:23] giving them the skills at the time

[00:30:25] I don't reckon I did that a lot, you know, maybe maybe early on, you know

[00:30:30] Probably at times I could take a step back the other mistake I made

[00:30:34] Horribly as a dad and probably still make it is

[00:30:37] Is trying to solve their problems for them rather than, you know, maybe asking questions or so or so forth

[00:30:45] Especially if it's unsolicited when you know trying trying to fix it

[00:30:49] I think that would I didn't realize until much much later in life. In fact, I caught up with you know

[00:30:53] Lail stone over the summer and listening to her for a couple of hours in a cafe

[00:30:58] I was you know, I was inspired by meeting such an incredible human. I was demotivated by thinking she's I made every mistake

[00:31:04] She just referenced right in terms of your job is not to solve

[00:31:08] their problems

[00:31:09] your job is to kind of meet them where they're at

[00:31:12] and

[00:31:12] Validate their emotions as opposed to fix the fix the issue and and fix them and

[00:31:19] It's such a battle isn't it that's a constant work in progress as I said because of love

[00:31:24] It ends up interfering in their life and and their life task and

[00:31:30] Rather than knowing, you know to validate their emotions and yeah, that sounds really hard

[00:31:34] And yeah, if it was me, I'd be feeling really bad as well

[00:31:37] So, you know, so what are you going to do about it? Like what's next?

[00:31:40] What what what things could you do and kind of encourage them to problem solve themselves?

[00:31:44] I'd like to say that, you know, if it's selective memory, I don't think I do this is absolutely one of those times too when it's like

[00:31:51] Especially in your line of work. You know that you know this theory so much like it mentally you absolutely understand it your head

[00:31:59] Is flawless in terms of knowing this inside out

[00:32:02] Did you often find as someone who is a practitioner of coaching high performance people in these mindsets and in this

[00:32:09] You know unlocking that side of them

[00:32:11] Did you you know often find that like that is it is harder to practice?

[00:32:16] Than preach 100% yeah. Oh, yeah

[00:32:20] You'd like to think again if you if you cut yourself some slack

[00:32:23] And you know, so look at okay. I'm a good person. I'm doing the best job I can

[00:32:28] And when you look back on it, you probably just hope you do more

[00:32:31] Good than bad or get it right more than you get it wrong

[00:32:34] But you're gonna get it wrong for a whole set of different reasons

[00:32:37] You might be distracted yourself. You're lacking energy something else has happened to you in your life

[00:32:42] And suddenly your kids come in and you don't you just not present to kind of listen if you like and listen to them and understand their needs

[00:32:50] So I think, you know

[00:32:53] That for me it was is a game changer when I think when the kids were about 15

[00:32:58] I changed tact. What did you change a lot?

[00:33:01] I stopped

[00:33:03] Treating I stopped having a superiority complex

[00:33:06] I think yeah and believing that I had to

[00:33:09] Have all the answers and I was the superior one in the house because I'm older than them and I'm their dad and

[00:33:13] And so forth and I I reckon there was a conscious moment run up run a flight to barley

[00:33:18] And harry gave me a talk a Ted talk of brinne brown

[00:33:22] And who then brinne went on to become a pretty important part in my life right?

[00:33:27] And I suddenly sat there listening to talk and I looked across the three kids and I go

[00:33:31] They're my mentors like they're reverse mentors for me and they're equals and they're so wise

[00:33:37] And there's little other moments leading up to this point where I suddenly go

[00:33:40] I want to start treating my kids as equals not as this superior guy with all the answers who just

[00:33:47] You know why not because I because I said so or you know so forth

[00:33:50] And I think I started listening to them again pure luck than design hamish. I didn't do this

[00:33:55] consciously I did have an aha moment

[00:33:58] And then later on in life for definitely for I guess the last I don't know five or seven years with that knowledge

[00:34:05] My kids have helped me

[00:34:07] I reckon more than I've helped them

[00:34:09] About not taking things too seriously or when I get criticized or when I fall down and

[00:34:14] You know, and I know that if I'm more real and showing my emotions that they're gonna love me back

[00:34:21] They have my back. I love it. I mean it's it's

[00:34:25] I was having this chat with a made-of-mine last night actually in terms of

[00:34:28] He said something like he was like I remember growing up my dad

[00:34:32] He could always fix the lawnmower, but I I would have no idea how to fix the lawnmower

[00:34:36] Like he's got a brand new baby and he's like

[00:34:38] As you get older being a dad like do you do you get dad wisdom?

[00:34:41] Do you do you learn more like he was worried about going dad wisdom?

[00:34:45] He's like I remember looking at my dad and seeing cable and I don't think I'll be able to

[00:34:49] I can't do this stuff

[00:34:51] And like funny example, but I think it cuts the heart of going we

[00:34:56] Feel like we need to have the answers for our kids

[00:35:00] Like we maybe that's how we remember aspects of our own dad

[00:35:02] But then that that idea of of growing with them of of saying to them as you're saying like

[00:35:08] I don't know this stuff and I'm I am eager to be taught it

[00:35:12] As there's those many things that our kids can teach us

[00:35:16] Totally and I think I think I knew that phrase like you hear that. Ah your kids you teachers

[00:35:20] But can I've heard that phrase since I became a dad?

[00:35:23] But it's only now as I get a bit older. I start to see glimmers of what that means. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I feel

[00:35:30] I feel quite blessed

[00:35:32] Having said that if they listen to this podcast, I'm screwed right in terms of they'll be they'll be you playbook

[00:35:37] They'll be there'll be conditions on it. I think being a dad

[00:35:41] is there's a strong correlation between being a parent or a dad and

[00:35:46] um leadership philosophy and purpose

[00:35:48] I was gonna want this is the next bit. Yeah for me the definition of leadership is to create an environment to help others realize their potential

[00:35:56] Yes, not to just impart your framework of what looks good. Correct. It's not about you

[00:36:02] In my opinion the number one reason why leaders get it wrong

[00:36:06] And maybe parents as well

[00:36:08] Is we think it's about us. We think we have to have all the answers

[00:36:11] Right and vulnerability is a weakness and I can't ask questions. I can't put up my hand and go

[00:36:15] I've got no clue what I'm doing here because we think we have to be it

[00:36:18] But when you realize it's actually not about you

[00:36:21] It's about them

[00:36:23] And what you can do to create an environment to help them

[00:36:27] And push leadership deep through the business or the family if you're a parent

[00:36:32] If you have that philosophy your job is just to create an environment to help them flourish to help them learn

[00:36:37] To help them make mistakes and grow and overcome adversity and and be playful and along the journey and I think maybe if I if I knew that

[00:36:46] Back back when I would stop interfering and trying to fix everything for for my kids or for sally and

[00:36:54] I feel like later on in life, you know, god, I wish I knew some of this back then

[00:36:59] I would of course so many less fights or frustrations

[00:37:03] You know, do you think those fights came from you being set in things needing to be one way?

[00:37:09] Yes, I was definitely in a month of being the pleaser and wanting an environment where no one's fighting and everything's just kind of

[00:37:16] Was the downside of that was they weren't

[00:37:19] They were running into a wall if they wanted to express something. Yeah, it's not their job necessarily to be fixed

[00:37:26] I was creating this interference in in the relationship

[00:37:29] Rather than again encouraging, you know the third word

[00:37:33] Means you don't have to interfere part of your but you can still have this curiosity

[00:37:36] What can I do to create an environment them to feel safe?

[00:37:39] You know, so they feel okay

[00:37:40] If they do have issues that they can come back to me if that's my role

[00:37:44] If I understood that back back then my role is just to create a safe safe haven as a parent as a dad and a partner

[00:37:52] You know if you are partnering with the sorry if you're parenting with a partner to create

[00:37:56] You're an environmental engineer. You're just taking care of the environment rather than a human engineer

[00:38:02] You're not you're not shaping the person. You're shaping the environment. They're operating in totally

[00:38:07] Totally and I think that's where Sally's been absolutely brilliant because I think she

[00:38:11] Either intuitively or through her her upbringing or her occupational therapy

[00:38:15] I think she understood so many of these things far better than I and

[00:38:18] Looking back i'm wondering did she try and tell me this or did she just

[00:38:22] Realize for you to catch on and tell me to go off somewhere and then she could you know help the kids in

[00:38:27] In the proper way

[00:38:30] You spend a lot of time, you know, you've you've spent your professional career working with athletes and and helping their mindset

[00:38:37] And then on your personal life. You've got your children. You're helping them develop their mindset

[00:38:42] Do you have moments where you go again like I know this theory, but um, it's not working for me and how do you reset out of that?

[00:38:50] um

[00:38:51] good question

[00:38:53] I've never felt that it hasn't worked

[00:38:55] For the kids these principles aren't mine. They're two and a half thousand years old. Whether you study

[00:39:02] stoicism philosophy or

[00:39:04] Buddhism religion, right?

[00:39:07] These these principles have been around for a long time

[00:39:10] I've just realized the power if you can simplify this complexity into certain tools that athletes and teams and CEOs can use

[00:39:16] And the kids are very lucky because they love

[00:39:20] You know sport and they've been privileged to see a lot of the behind the scenes of a lot of the athletes

[00:39:25] Being incredibly real and raw and and seeing them at the lowest of lows

[00:39:30] But they've also they're very curious. So they've also understood the process that they've gone through and I think through osmosis

[00:39:36] They've learned to develop their own words and mantras or affirmations that they can go back to when

[00:39:43] They're being distracted or they've got anxiety or stress or fear or worries

[00:39:47] That they have tools that they can that can draw down on to have an element of self confidence

[00:39:53] Or or performance confidence, you know, it's it's it mean you're right

[00:39:56] What are such a privileged position for those kids to be into go? You know

[00:40:00] Most kids you know 99 point no no no no no no

[00:40:04] kids have

[00:40:05] The poster of an athlete on the wall

[00:40:08] But they don't understand the actual human anguish of that person's

[00:40:13] Insecurities and and your kids have got to see that totally

[00:40:18] De-rayer fires. I guess that idea of hero worship to be like well, they're all humans

[00:40:23] They do amazing things but

[00:40:25] They're human beings totally so they see you know athletes performing in world surfing title finals or in grand finals in afl

[00:40:33] And they know the backstory

[00:40:36] Of where they need to focus their attention today, you know and what will cause pressure

[00:40:40] You know he's focusing on an uncontrollable wanting to control all right, so they know these things again like me

[00:40:46] They know it on an intellectual level

[00:40:48] but

[00:40:49] Implementing on an emotional level takes takes practice and they're human like everyone so they're imperfect

[00:40:55] So they'll make mistakes and so forth. So I feel like and they have to practice that themselves

[00:41:00] And so is that constant what we come back to that encouragement that forgiveness of going we go again

[00:41:06] We try again, especially while they're little teenagers growing up

[00:41:09] iterating through that process. Yeah, totally totally. I think as they become teenagers into adults

[00:41:15] That's what I think looking back on my life. I wish I had

[00:41:18] Spent a lot more time talking about from a resilience point of view not trying to fix them

[00:41:22] Not trying to pick them up when they fall down helicopter marshmallow generation and so forth

[00:41:28] Because life is really tough as a teenager especially coming out of coville coming out of university or social media or so forth

[00:41:34] There's so many distractions home that you and I probably didn't have as much of when we were growing up

[00:41:39] But the social comparison

[00:41:41] Right or just you know

[00:41:44] They're not entitled or but they're living through an entitlement generation as if you know do something for me

[00:41:49] My life should be this should be different. I should be different

[00:41:51] But you have that sense of

[00:41:53] Entitled more expectation when things don't go to expectation when you do get injured or you don't get the job or so

[00:41:58] forth I think them just like every other teenager

[00:42:02] Struggles with overcoming that adversity is that well, it is what it is. This is life

[00:42:06] And it's not it's not bells and whistles. Yeah, but I think I

[00:42:10] Looking back. I probably did the wrong thing by trying to fix things for them rather than did you want to rush them?

[00:42:16] Which is what I would do. I'm sure what we ordered that you want to rush through the adversity

[00:42:20] As quick as you can. Yeah, rather than acknowledging it

[00:42:24] It kind of you know identifying it acknowledging it accepting it and letting it go and then reframing and turn the adversity into

[00:42:31] Into possibility. So it's like, okay

[00:42:33] Curiosity taps in what do I do now? How do I get through this? Who can help me?

[00:42:38] And it's like the possibility of what I can do with

[00:42:41] With this and that's what we talk about encouraging

[00:42:44] I'd love to feel that later on in life

[00:42:46] I feel like they're learning those skills now to encourage them that when shit happens, which it will

[00:42:51] It's always about the response. Yeah, how do I respond now? So my my youngest boy Ned has had so many

[00:42:58] You know shoulder reconstructions knee

[00:43:01] You know surgeries hand surgery like issues and so forth time and time and time and time again

[00:43:06] but he's still going and

[00:43:09] He's passionate about it. He feels he's pretty good at it

[00:43:13] And

[00:43:14] He has no idea whether we're how far that his career will go

[00:43:17] But neither do my other two boys as well Sam and Harry, but

[00:43:20] Again, it's not what happens to them in life. There's an uncontrollable, right?

[00:43:23] But it's how they respond to these things in life for me. That's

[00:43:28] That's success. That is everything. Yeah, and that's where if they have the courage to be themselves and follow their goals and dreams

[00:43:34] Regardless of whether they get there or not

[00:43:37] But they also acknowledge and believe that they're

[00:43:41] loved

[00:43:42] And that they're worthy of giving love even if you know, they get dropped

[00:43:46] Like, you know as we all do and but they they learn from that. Okay, this relationship wasn't meant to work

[00:43:51] So what do I do now? And I think if you've got that combo of love at one extreme and courage at the other

[00:43:58] I reckon we've done a

[00:44:01] Absolutely. So yeah

[00:44:03] um

[00:44:04] quickly

[00:44:05] Gold a gold standard daddy example from someone you've seen or someone you're aware of could be big or small

[00:44:12] But where you look at someone and go that's

[00:44:15] That's that embodies the qualities that I reckon that guy's doing it. Well, that's such a hard question home for me

[00:44:21] I I see so many I guess examples

[00:44:25] And you know, I'm in a obviously get to know all the dads at primary school and I've seen a couple of dads in particular

[00:44:31] just they're

[00:44:32] Investing in in their kids and their kids interests. I've got Richard Lewis who watching him coach

[00:44:39] his young daughter in football when AFLW came in and just the sheer joy and passion that

[00:44:45] seeing his daughter and and dad

[00:44:48] And it's all about, you know, loving to watch your play

[00:44:51] It's all about the intrinsic motivation to compete and have fun and push yourself out of your comfort zone

[00:44:55] No talk of winning and the great irony is they then go and win the premiership, right? Because they're having so much fun

[00:45:00] That they don't really care about distractions of you know trying to please my parents and expectations of others

[00:45:06] They're just in the zone but to watch him do that or or julian

[00:45:10] That is that's a beautiful one. I mean what what makes that relationship stand out more than anyone else that's in a coach daughter relationship

[00:45:17] It's probably just the recency bias and the conversations I've had with him where he gets so much joy

[00:45:22] Seeing annie in this case smile and he did the same for his other other daughter as well

[00:45:27] But I've seen another friend julian batastella do the exact same thing with

[00:45:32] With four kids, but if you ask for a gold standard the one that stands out for me

[00:45:38] My kids I went to a really small primary school called sat rocks and

[00:45:43] In the situation that I was in we used to get a dad come in a well-known dad to come and talk on father's day

[00:45:48] Okay, so he had jimmy sines one year and he was brilliant and then one year we got denis comedi

[00:45:54] And denis was asked a question about you know

[00:45:57] What's your advice for some a dad who's struggling to connect with his teenage son?

[00:46:01] And he told a beautiful story about when his son I think was 17 or 18 they were just

[00:46:07] Struggling to connect anymore and had a beautiful relationship growing up. But then you know, he was daggy daggy

[00:46:13] Dennis, you know everyone's greatest fear and probably a lot of people's reality

[00:46:18] His music was daggy looked daggy just had nothing in common with his son

[00:46:22] Right and he was really stressed about this and trying to create

[00:46:25] A connection and whether he got the advice about just trying to find the glue trying to find a fit trying to find a way in

[00:46:32] But his son used to listen to some pretty out there music that you can only get on the internet

[00:46:38] You know

[00:46:38] Kind of an alternative rock kind of music

[00:46:41] And one night at the dinner table denis asked his son or told a story to his son about you know

[00:46:47] I listened to that song you listened to the other night. I really like the lyrics

[00:46:51] And all these sons george has dropped and go oh my god

[00:46:53] My dad cared to even listen to my music let alone listen to the lyrics

[00:46:58] And they end up having a beautiful conversation or from that

[00:47:02] He denis went on to then start listening to a lot of the songs. He started liking the music even

[00:47:07] Created this incredible connection with his son around this alternative music to the point where they ended up going overseas

[00:47:13] To meet some of these bands. I think they might have even invested in a go fund me or some of these bands as well

[00:47:17] Right. So you go from no connection and our son. I'm just losing my son

[00:47:23] To a shape where you suddenly had this relationship this shared joy this experience with

[00:47:29] With your son. I listened to that. I was hanging on every word and the amount of wisdom in that story for me

[00:47:35] I've kind of I've kind of stuck with that forever. So whenever I feel like I'm not

[00:47:38] Connected in some way just find a way in you know, I love that and I mean to me

[00:47:44] I hear that and I go it comes back to

[00:47:47] a thing that I think about all the time which is

[00:47:49] You don't have we don't there's he didn't do that

[00:47:53] He didn't listen to that song because he had a 200 step plan that one day will be in Cincinnati

[00:47:58] Backstage with these guys investing in their you know next album

[00:48:02] It was just that effort to make the next step a bit of a Hail Mary really like a total role of the dice

[00:48:08] But I love hearing those examples. It's just such a great reminder to be like you just make the first effort

[00:48:14] One effort and you don't have to know what comes after that and then if you if you keep making the effort

[00:48:20] Something will crack something will give 100% I love the mantra. You got a wanna

[00:48:25] All right, and if you if you lean into that you will listen, you know, you find the stories behind the stories

[00:48:31] We're all capable of it. Totally. It's not what someone's interests are

[00:48:36] But you'll find the story behind the story there

[00:48:39] I think if we if we lean in and we listen in that way

[00:48:42] We'll find so much wisdom that we didn't realize was there, but you got a wanna

[00:48:47] You know do that I think and and probably change your perspective and in his case you put up his hand and goes

[00:48:52] Okay, I'm feeling a bit disconnected. How do I find that connection?

[00:48:55] So good. Yeah, I kind of stayed with that. Um, I'd love to finish by

[00:48:59] You mentioned you've made all them every mistake in the book

[00:49:01] Now of course I hear that your kids this is really naive because I hear your kids in their 20s and I go

[00:49:08] Ah, you know my kids eight and five and I go your kids are in their 20s. You're done. And of course you're never done

[00:49:14] Uh, what was your most recent mistake?

[00:49:20] My most recent mistake again it would be

[00:49:25] Interfering would yeah, I'm I'm still trying to fix things for that's the lesson that keeps coming back to you

[00:49:31] It is yeah, um, I'd like to think I've got a lot better

[00:49:35] At it you should probably ask my kids and they'll probably realize about 400, right?

[00:49:40] But most recent mistake I've made with my kids or probably the most recent mistake I make and I'll probably make it

[00:49:46] every day is

[00:49:48] offering unsolicited advice

[00:49:51] When I probably know in my heart of hearts that it's unnecessary and they'll probably get there

[00:49:57] So it's it's again going interfering and trying to give them advice as opposed to

[00:50:03] That's not my life task. Yeah, it's not my job to

[00:50:08] Fear and give them the answers. What would you have rather you did then interfere?

[00:50:13] I wish I had

[00:50:15] ester parella laylestone in my head and

[00:50:18] Who would just have said to me meet them where they are

[00:50:21] Just meet them where they are and just listen to them and see them

[00:50:27] Validate them. Yeah, but don't interfere in in them

[00:50:32] Encourage them obviously, you know and getting back to

[00:50:35] What my purpose is and just create that environment to help them flourish and that safety to show their emotions because anger's a good emotion

[00:50:43] Right, it's not and if they learn that anger is not a good emotion that they're only loved when they're happy and joyful

[00:50:48] That's a terrible thing for kids to learn

[00:50:51] So yeah, it's sort of meet meet them where they are

[00:50:54] I mean, I'm sure if I was listening this going yep

[00:50:57] I got a

[00:50:57] I got 25 things that happened this week where I could have met them where they are better

[00:51:01] than I did

[00:51:03] I really like that concept a lot because it we have fixing brains like we we'd love

[00:51:08] To be smart too probably in a narcissistic way like we'd like to think we've got the answers to me

[00:51:13] I hear this and I'm like, I think sitting on your

[00:51:17] Urge to be right and like tell your kids that you're smart and that you know the answers

[00:51:21] And you know what they're going through

[00:51:23] That's as hard as turning up to pub trivia and knowing thinking you know the answer and going

[00:51:27] Great question

[00:51:28] Well seeing you there for the whole round of pub trivia and having them

[00:51:31] You know list countries that start with mo and going yeah, great question. I'm not gonna say

[00:51:37] Most epic like to just to not leap out with the answer. It's just such an urge that I definitely battle with

[00:51:43] Yeah

[00:51:44] I hear where you're coming from but like all this stuff we talk about like, you know simple but not easy and

[00:51:51] Totally, I think the yeah if how they're gonna learn

[00:51:55] If you're showing off to your kids with how much you know

[00:51:58] And odds are you're wrong? A lot of the time like

[00:52:02] To use pub trivia is an example

[00:52:04] You just get excited and you might you're probably not right and that's right. Yeah

[00:52:08] If you can flick the relationship from vertical, you know, which normally comes from not feeling that you're enough

[00:52:13] So you're either overcompensate or under compensating give them whatever they want. I guess that horizontal where

[00:52:19] You're equal in this relationship. You're on this journey together. You might have different roles

[00:52:24] But you're completely equal. I remember when the state told me she was pregnant

[00:52:28] There was a movie come out with 1989 called parent hood with um, Steve Martin with Steve Martin. Yeah, and um

[00:52:35] I remember a line in that movie where I think was counter-revs was playing the daggy boyfriend and and he said

[00:52:42] To his girlfriend's mum. He said, you know, you need a license to

[00:52:47] By gun you need a license to drive a car. You need a license to catch a fish

[00:52:50] But they'll let any old real dumb ass become a

[00:52:54] Dad

[00:52:55] And that kind of stopped me in my tracks and I go, yeah, what is the rules?

[00:53:00] There's no such thing as dad school as we said so outside of this podcast

[00:53:04] Where are we going to learn these things? It's just pure instincts, especially if my you know, my dad

[00:53:11] Maybe taught me some things. I don't want to continue on, you know that ugly parents syndrome

[00:53:15] Well, it's kind of unfulfilled desires pushed down from one generation to the next

[00:53:18] It's kind of well, where do we where do we learn these things? It's part instinct

[00:53:22] Obviously, but yeah, I've probably learned since my dad passed away pretty young

[00:53:26] I'm learning a lot through movies like we bought a zoo is on my favorite movies

[00:53:29] Right, there's so many beautiful scenes in that but but also music right

[00:53:33] Whether it's you know, cats in the cradle at one extreme to the father and son to it's funny

[00:53:37] When you think about it like I I'm the same I pick up so much as scraps

[00:53:42] And and at first I was a bit embarrassed about that

[00:53:45] But I think and I think a lot of that we've lot of feedback

[00:53:47] We get people listening to the show is that is what we're all doing. We are putting together scraps and

[00:53:53] I think that's okay. I think that's okay because

[00:53:56] That's that's how we learn totally that's how we learn and it's it's a massive

[00:54:00] It is thousands of ingredients that go into how we're trying to do it

[00:54:03] And I mean the most important ingredient is like you don't get a license

[00:54:05] But you also have never cared more about something in your life before

[00:54:10] You can get a lot the license to drive and not really care about driving

[00:54:12] You don't get a license to be a dad

[00:54:14] But especially I think the people listening to this and and the men and women, you know, that's because we're like

[00:54:19] The nerve it's touched in the people that listen is like, yeah

[00:54:23] We would desperately like to be better or at least minimize the amount of regret we have in future years

[00:54:29] Yeah, if we just let it sail past totally totally and from a from a mindset point of view

[00:54:35] I think if we can develop some tools for ourselves, I love your podcast

[00:54:39] In terms of the storytelling because when someone tells their story we resonate and our imagination goes crazy

[00:54:44] We picture individuals in those situations. The relatability is crazy

[00:54:48] But for ourselves if we can kind of catch ourselves in those moments when anxiety or fear kicks in

[00:54:54] We're comparing ourselves to other how other people dad or

[00:54:57] so forth

[00:54:59] the mantras that have definitely helped me along on the journey is

[00:55:04] You know screw it

[00:55:05] You're a good person and you're doing the best job that you can is one

[00:55:09] You can't make this shit up

[00:55:11] Definitely came back out in covet

[00:55:13] But you know if you got two kids and they've got gastro and their wing and pooing and vomiting and screaming at the same time

[00:55:19] Right, they've got fevers

[00:55:21] But they can't give them baby pan at all because they're not holding anything down

[00:55:23] It's like you can't make this shit up, right?

[00:55:26] So all the simplest one is just I've got this, you know, you know

[00:55:29] I mean perfect

[00:55:30] I don't have the answers and I'm gonna get it wrong

[00:55:32] And I think if you can acknowledge you are gonna get it wrong

[00:55:35] But you're open

[00:55:36] To learning and curious you'll find the way through and you might find it in so many different ways

[00:55:42] All right, you might find it in lyrics of a song or watching a movie or listening to a conversation or this podcast

[00:55:48] Right, but eventually if you're open to getting better and doing the best job you can

[00:55:52] I agree. I think that's leadership. I think that's progress. I think it's all yeah

[00:55:55] I think it's definitely it's definitely leadership

[00:55:57] It's definitely having a purpose mindset and for me

[00:55:59] They're the simple ingredients to being a great dad as well

[00:56:02] Well, Benny

[00:56:04] And I know you're cheating yourself. I think was highly unfounded. You're only half said vulnerability twice

[00:56:11] Um, that was really awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks everything you're doing as well

[00:56:15] Hey, mish is glad that he talked to another dad now. He's gonna say some other stuff, but he will be by himself

[00:56:24] Thank you so much ben

[00:56:25] Thank you as well for listening for the people listening to this thanks for everyone listening for the

[00:56:30] I for the passion with which people listen to this show with I man, I get so much out of it. They've had various

[00:56:39] Like numerous hundreds of little interactions that really like completely make my day make tims day who does it with me

[00:56:45] You know, it's it's the reason we do it. Um

[00:56:49] I recently had a guy at Darwin airport go make sure you give a shout out to the bloke with dreadlocks at Darwin airport

[00:56:54] Now I don't want to start a shout outs

[00:56:56] Competition, but I did love that moment because it was just another one of the random interactions that I'm lucky enough to have

[00:57:02] Where I bump into I bump into you guys in public people that listen to this show and

[00:57:07] And I get to talk to you about, you know, what the show means to you what you're doing on your

[00:57:12] mothering fathering

[00:57:14] Adventure or not even having kids or you know listening to this for for other reasons

[00:57:18] And they're always really beautiful stories. So thank you for listening. Thanks for the attention that you

[00:57:24] Bring into your own lives and doing this and I think it's got to be a good thing for the kids in our life

[00:57:29] Thank you to ben as well. Like man, there was some there was some awesome stuff in there. I really

[00:57:35] I think the thing that sticks out most for me about ben is again, I love having people on who are

[00:57:41] experts in their field

[00:57:43] And the reason I I enjoy talking to people like this and the point of this show is because I think in

[00:57:48] lots and lots of different ways they keep showing us that they don't have the answers like that

[00:57:53] You know when ben talks about leadership in the family about it's just about creating space to

[00:57:58] To allow the other people in the family to achieve their potential

[00:58:02] I think that's a really beautiful example of

[00:58:04] of

[00:58:05] Not needing to have the answers

[00:58:08] And in a funny way, I think we listen to stuff like this and we do shows like this

[00:58:11] We do podcasts like this to have the answers

[00:58:14] And then you kind of come right back around full circle to realize that you don't need the answers

[00:58:20] So yeah, I love that from ben. I love that he's not he's not trying to fix everything with the kids that you know

[00:58:25] That's how we all learn together. We're not trying to fix stuff

[00:58:27] We're just trying to be there with each other and and grow with each other really appreciate it ben

[00:58:31] Thank you for listening last episode is next episode

[00:58:35] We've got dr. Billy garvey back if you listen to season one, you will know that this is

[00:58:39] This is like the cheat sheet episode for the whole season. So

[00:58:43] Bring a pencil and we'll see you next time. Thank you

[00:58:50] How are the dad's dad

[00:58:52] This episode of how are the dad's dad was produced by tim barthly and his good friend hamish blake

[00:58:58] Our theme music is of course the star of the show apart from the guests and by the incredibly funny and clever tom cardy

[00:59:05] We recorded this on the lands of the war-unjury people of the cool and nation who have passed their parenting stories down for thousands of generations

[00:59:11] And we pay our respects if you want to drop us a line head to our website how are the dad's dad.com

[00:59:15] Thanks again for listening

[00:59:32] As always thank you to her it's our gorgeous sponsor for how are the dad's dad this season

[00:59:38] Of course with sponsorship comes

[00:59:41] A code we've never had this before i've never actually my whole career. I've actually never given away the code

[00:59:47] So it's an open a code

[00:59:48] But if you go to herds.com.au when you're booking a car forward slash hodd how are the dad's dad you get 25 percent off

[00:59:55] The base day right now that is a bloody good deal

[00:59:58] And i'm stoked to be able to offer it on to the valuable dad's mums uncles, arnie's

[01:00:04] Son's daughters whoever it is that's listening to this podcast hurts.com.au forward slash hodd

[01:00:10] And you get that discount it actually runs for a year

[01:00:12] I mean do it now obviously like so it makes me look good and makes the show look good

[01:00:16] Has an effect but i think if you look at the terms and conditions and they do apply and you should look at the website

[01:00:21] I think it actually runs

[01:00:23] For quite a while at discount, so you know one listen huge rewards from herds