How Russel Howcroft Dads

[00:00:00] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad So he made this show where he talks to other dads so he can find out How Other Dads Dad How Other Dads Dad

[00:00:18] G'day everybody, welcome to another How Other Dads Dad, I'm Hamish Today's chat is an absolute cracker Russel Howcroft, I think universally people will be well aware of Russel's work A quick CV though if you're not, he's part of the hugely popular ruin on the ABC

[00:00:38] He's part of Ross and Russell which is Melbourne's biggest breakfast show on 3RW He was part of a very niche part of the Hamish and Annie podcast for a while During the segment Shunned by a Russe

[00:00:53] He's a great guy and he's luckily now, I haven't been shunned by him But more than that Russe is...he's a dynamite, he's also had an enormous career in advertising in the corporate world

[00:01:04] And just as a tone-setter for this, it's just a very...Russel's just a very exciting person to talk to You always feel up after you speak to Russe and you will after you finish listening to him He has that energy, he's joyful, he's inquisitive and he's curious

[00:01:21] And that's where a lot of the conversation spreads to today He does think a lot about creativity and freedom and what that means to give your children Without leaving the witness, it's probably parts where you want 100% agree with Russe

[00:01:37] But what I did love so much...and it really was so much fun having him on this Because he was one of my early names I had written down When someone walks in and he had a list He had a list of stuff he wanted to get through

[00:01:49] And I was like, there is going to be some gold in here Because anyone that has grown kids, as Russe does, that...or you know, kids that are into their 20s and stuff And he has these come in with a list

[00:02:01] Like we're going to get a real download of some wisdom that took decades for someone to accumulate And it's...we're going to get it in under an hour That's pretty good, pretty good bang for buck Let's find out how Russel Howe Croft dads Howe of the dads, dads

[00:02:23] Russel Howe Croft Welcome Hi, Hanish What an honour. Thank you for doing this, mate It's nice of you to say that. I'm thrilled Well, as you know via text, I just love this intro The soundtrack of the intro Thank you How...I just adore it

[00:02:39] And in fact over summer, with my youngest, we spend a lot of time Not necessarily listening to all the podcasts but listening to the intro a lot Yeah, I mean...we do thank him at the Embedded Deserves, all of the credit in the world

[00:02:51] Tom Cardi, you know, extraordinary comedian, musical performer It is genuinely awesome Tom's genius So thank you for coming on one of your favourite Jingle Show It is, alright I do love it. Anyway, thanks for having me Mate, well let's start with your stats How many? How old?

[00:03:09] Okay, so I have three, Kate and I have three The eldest is Claudia Claudia Kate She's 28 Soon to be 29 And then Charlie Charlie Marcus And he's 25 And then the next one is Louis Louis John So I got to name all of them

[00:03:29] They were sort of part of the deal In our house, I don't know You really...you got full naming rights I did get full naming rights I'm not quite sure how that was agreed But I do remember Yeah, having the full naming rights Because it's usually a situation

[00:03:45] More from my experience where you have very little leverage I mean, what was the... Alright, well I'll let you carry them to term As long as I get to name them As long as I get to name them Exactly And when you think about our marriage

[00:04:00] There's always been a lot of sort of transactional stuff I'll do that, I'll do X if you do Y Okay, great That's been very much a lot of how we've operated And so Claudia Claudia is... There was a girl in... So Kate has always found this very amusing

[00:04:16] There was a girl that I lived in London Who I thought was pretty fabulous And her name was Claudia And so... You named your daughter after a crush? Yeah, which is sort of... It's interesting So Claudia Kate, of course, her middle name is... Your real crush

[00:04:34] I mean, when our daughter Rudy was born One of the names I really liked And Zoe was suspicious of that Right This is Sophia Vergara Blake So I've got to tell you a quick story So when Claudia... When she finished HSE I took her to New York

[00:04:52] We had a week in New York And that was at a time when I would go there a lot for work Pretty much every quarter So it took her with me And then we're at JFK To come home And I was telling Claudia about the girl

[00:05:06] Like how she got her name Claudia, right? This was in London And she was a German girl In fact, Claudia So... I mean, I know we record these You'll see the misty eyes So anyway I'm at JFK with my daughter And I'm telling her about Claudia

[00:05:28] And I said, in fact, Claudia That's her right there No So I went up to her And we're in a German accent And so then we Precended where we left off 20 years prior to that Which was going to the bar and drinking Wow

[00:05:49] I mean, how did your daughter Process this? That's a good question I mean, we laughed In fact, she's still in New York $50 in charity at the food court So... So, yeah, we often laugh about it It's sort of a pretty amazing story That is incredible Claudia Kate

[00:06:11] So Charlie's second name Marcus that's named after Kate's father Who's a massive part of everyone's lives He died at the start of COVID And Charlie's... He was called Charlie because I was at the park with Claudia When Kate was pregnant And this gorgeous young little boy

[00:06:29] Was just running around And the parents were saying I come here, Charlie That's a great name There's lots of Charlie's At the time, I thought it was like You're unique And then Louis In fact, Louis When Louis was born, he was George

[00:06:49] So bear in mind that this was all me So when he was arrived It's like, oh, good day, George And then about five hours later I said to Kate There was a New Zealand batsman His first name was Louis He just made a ton of new series

[00:07:05] I mean, it just really seems like If you were in your vicinity Around the time Or a stunning German woman You were a chance to get a child named after you Yeah, Louis and John So Louis John, that's my father So he was John

[00:07:21] So I did enjoy naming all of them And I think they're all happy with their names I hope so Louis 20 He turned 21 in December I'm fascinated I see you as such a rich resource here Because I've got kids that are coming Into primary school now

[00:07:39] And you've got kids that are leaving And have left high school And they're fully into the world I feel like you're a rich vein To mine in that sense I hope so Why don't we start with You know Do you have the three words Your three values

[00:07:59] That you used as a cornerstone I'd be interested to know With someone with older kids Did they change over time Well, I've got to steal my father's three words Because My father had a big part He was a big part of my life We were good friends

[00:08:17] It seems to me when you think about being a dad You do obviously think about the stuff That was good about your dad But you also there's stuff that wasn't so good And I do think that that does contribute to how You then father

[00:08:29] I think I fully agree You take what resonated But then personally for me And I think this is coming from a lot of guys Is your fathering And some obviously more than others Is the inverse And when you're doing the inverse When you're trying to fill a trough

[00:08:47] Rather than recreate a peak That's the bit where It feels a bit more like guesswork Because you're not carbon copy In good behaviour You're just trying to avoid something you didn't enjoy But you're not quite sure what to put in there So I'll tell you three words

[00:09:02] And then there's some of the stuff which Which maybe I've tried not to do as well Great, yeah So the story goes Year nine, eight or nine at school And the teacher said Go home and ask your parents What they want you to be when you grow up

[00:09:18] What do they want you to be When you grow up It was a serious conversation So it must have been career counselling Or something Interesting that's not what you want to be What do your parents want you to be So anyway I was very proud of my father

[00:09:36] Because he said I want you to be honest, happy and healthy So you know And of course it's very memorable Because everyone else was I'd really like you to be a surgeon And could you be an accountant I think it sounds like your dad was You know, nowadays

[00:09:52] You would hopefully get a lot more of the Honest, happy and healthy feedback More the principles rather than the specific destination Exactly But I love that That's obviously deeply stuck It did and has for all my life It will As much as anything I was proud of dad

[00:10:10] So maybe that's part of why it stuck with me Why were you proud of him Because he was different He's a creative cat A creative soul And you know Storyteller He also had a plaque in his office That said a man that loves whiskey and hates kids

[00:10:28] Can't be too bad Which is WC Field So they would see that Like he wasn't necessarily a great dad all the time Funny funny But that really So interesting though To have an odd dad That would be a source of embarrassment Especially in teenagers You're scared

[00:10:50] Don't do anything different But for you He's a very creative man And creative man in a suit I mean he would still have the suit on And go about his sort of suiting days He also was a cartoonist And pretty good at

[00:11:06] Sitting in front of a piano and pumping out a tune And that's the stuff that you Hold on to Interesting because then it's When I was 18 or there 18, 19 When there was like a career discussion And I said to him I think I'd quite like to be a musician

[00:11:24] Because I played drums But I did HSC drums And I was quite obsessive About drums and love music And his response to me on that front Was You know, no, that's a hobby At that stage he was in the ad business Okay And he's a cartoonist

[00:11:47] It always fascinated me That When his son wanted to do something You know, artistic, let's call it that He didn't think that was a good idea Whereas he He was a very good artist as well Like he could paint and could paint very, very well

[00:12:03] So I think I might have in my fathering I might have overcompensated It's like, you know Dad, I want to be a poet Great, be a poet So you never wanted to Any resistance for that pull That's right In a way it's Let them do whatever they want

[00:12:23] Has really been a big part of Definitely a big part of my fathering Frankly as long as they're honest And obviously we want them to be Happy and we want them to be healthy Take good care of themselves Good values Really in the end

[00:12:39] All you really worry about You know, you don't want to have I don't mind them being disruptive I used to call Charlie an innocent radical Because he was sort of pretty radical But with a lot of innocence So that's good I love all of that

[00:12:55] So I do, I have encouraged them A lot Around their creative endeavours And that may be In part That conversation I had with my father Where you felt the pull But didn't feel the support The support And so, you know I think that's understandable Yeah

[00:13:19] We know now, probably now With adult eyes, you look back and go That's just fear From your father That you wouldn't be able to take care of yourself I think there's some truth to that I also think that That's an era, a generation

[00:13:35] You might have even got this as well From your father, Hamish Where it's like Don't believe your own BS Which... Don't get too carried away Don't get too carried away with yourself, son The only people That are going to 100% Unconditionally Support your children Are you

[00:14:01] Every single other interaction That they have Friend, boss, whoever They haven't got 100% commitment To who and what you are Whereas dad does And mum does So it's not really great advice When you're a father to say to a child You know, you're gonna be carried away there

[00:14:21] Right? It's like I think it's a good thing to get carried away And encourage those Because As you know, Hamish You can actually see I think very, very, very early In your child, daughter, son's life You can see Who and what they are And you see it

[00:14:42] Almost day one But not that far down the track You understand them And you see their Values, their qualities And I have certainly found myself In... I'm just... Not trying to overlay anything other than that Not trying to build upon Anything other than I know who you are

[00:15:06] I think I understand you And I'll do what I can to help that shine And I'll do what I can to not get in the way And, you know I'll do whatever I can to help you But not in a way I hope Which makes them completely delusional

[00:15:22] It's interesting Because I know exactly what you mean And I think we all struggle With that... Let's say that phrase That comes, I think, from a place And we've probably all felt that in ourselves To... Let's say, for example, someone comes And goes, you know what?

[00:15:42] I think I am going to be a rapper Yeah Naturally there's a part of the parent going Cool, but... If I may use one of your lyrics Cool, man I think we can stay at school Just for a little while anyway There's that worry of...

[00:16:00] And where I think that comes from In all seriousness, is the thing of going As parents, we fall into the trap of going Because I can see how that plays out Or thinking you know how it plays out And for your dad to go, don't take drums

[00:16:12] Because I reckon I know how that plays out And it's a trap that we have I catch myself in this trap all the time It's hubris of going No one knows how it will play out And I think that's why it's bad advice

[00:16:24] Because it's stepping in to go I know the future And none of us know what's happening And it does create a distance between You and your kid when you do that For sure, my grandfather on my mother's side He had a huge effect on me

[00:16:38] Positive effect on me And he would say to me It doesn't matter what you do in life Just make sure you're the best at it Yeah, great Abraham Lincoln, whatever you are Be a good one That to me is actually terrific advice And the other part of it

[00:16:56] Which I think might lack Maybe in our parenting I don't want you to be a musician It's sort of disregarding the fact that Music is an industry So maybe I get into music because I love music I might end up being a manager

[00:17:12] Or I might end up doing the poster I might end up being a great artist Whatever It's not as narrow as You know, oh there he is You don't look like Harry Styles You haven't got a chance Because again that puts you in that idea of going

[00:17:29] Because I know the way this goes And no one knows the way anything's gonna go That's right And I also think what happens again We benchmark Against the best So you want to be an artist Well, look I've been to the NGV

[00:17:47] And I'm not looking at NGV quality here You know, it's just It's outrageous what we do That is a real trap to fall into But it's true that we don't have that same Alarm bell with other endeavors either No one's going Just follow your heart with maths

[00:18:03] Like it doesn't matter if you do medicine or not Like there is that tendency As you see in other people to be like Well now we will benchmark you against being the best And then the other part of this Which is attention

[00:18:15] You do want your children to do well So Mind all three as we know They're all in their 20s So they need to be They didn't need to earn money And they need to pay their own way And they need to sort of deal with life So

[00:18:33] That does contribute to Okay I do believe that Louis for example Louis is an artist Yeah And I say to him So Louis when people ask you what you're doing Say you're an artist Don't muck around here That is what you are

[00:18:55] I'm very certain that's what you're going to be But then you do get worried Of course But that's it I think that's lovely to hear Because that creating that You know walking the walk Is the scary part Of anything creative It's not I'm waiting tables or whatever

[00:19:17] To go no You have to walk the walk and commit Because you're probably not maximising for money And that's okay Because that's just one aspect of life But you are maximising for your talent That's right And I also want them to be successful So what that looks like

[00:19:37] I get that that might be Not to be confused with Rich That'd be good too That's got plans All right fair enough I think that there is Okay so Rich and Rich But being able to Afford life Is important It's certainly to get past this level

[00:19:59] Up to a point It greatly reduces friction And after that it becomes far less Of a goal As I was saying earlier The Kate My transaction I'll do the names You do the birthing That's been a big part of how I've dad How I've fathered Because

[00:20:23] It's been very much okay So I, Kate The house I'm doing that She's CEO of the house Your job Go and work So I've spent really All of my married life Getting out of bed and going to work And trying my hardest

[00:20:43] To do as well as I can do In order to Make the family life as sort of As Rich with a Money rise as Rich as I possibly can Of course And again I've got to be very grateful to Kate Because it was like

[00:20:59] If I'd been away all week as would often happen in my work life It wasn't right for me to come home And be grumpy Like that's not the deal So the deal is I, Kate I'll run the house If there's some grumpiness that's required That's me

[00:21:15] When you come home just be nice So it was a pretty good I was... And that system really worked? Absolutely yes I think it did work How did you make up for those stretches I remember going through Coming back, were there things you did

[00:21:33] To make that time count especially? I've been reflecting on that one And I'm not sure that I did that enough But that... You know Kate said to me Don't be hard on yourself when it comes to I wasn't there

[00:21:49] Because I was away doing what I had to do Yeah and so I appreciate her letting me off the hook there But there was a few occasions where I did find myself Rushing to the next thing rather than Just being with my children

[00:22:05] And I think that that is a trap for You know, I think a lot of fathers Do fall into that trap That moment when you're doing the Lego With your son or with your daughter Is really important It's the whole point And if you find yourself

[00:22:21] Rushing to the phone To the phone because it's ringing or Whatever, you know like cutting that off Yeah That is not what you should be doing Yeah I think that is the One of the preeminent battles facing Parents of our generation Is Rush

[00:22:41] And how much our attention's dwindled And how many more things Are competing for it And it's that concept of You always think that you'll squeeze it You know, I'll do these things That I quote unquote need to do And then I'll do the quality stuff afterwards Yeah

[00:22:59] And that need to do list really can expand Yeah, and I think I might have made An error in that You know, the sort of the work life balance I always thought that was nonsense And you know, I'd talk about it I'd write about it

[00:23:13] And get really over excited About the fact that I I've always thought that the line was blurred That work is life, life is work I'll find it hard not to have that point of view as well But that did get in the way

[00:23:26] Of, you know, like I'm working And I still do work hard That it's like no, no You actually do need to think about There is a family bit here And did you find that if you left If you hoped that that would take care of itself

[00:23:40] It wasn't getting the attention Yeah, yeah, and when I look back on it So things like, you know, there'd be a The family extended family Would all be on a holiday And something would go wrong in my work And I would get on a plane

[00:23:54] And I'd go back and I'd try and fix out What was going on in work I didn't really need to do that What would you do different? Definitely would not be getting on a plane And I would be staying With my...cause one of the things is

[00:24:08] You get jealous as well, right Because there are still From that particular holiday that I'm thinking about There are still great stories that they tell Sorry, Dad, you weren't there, were you? And that hurts Because you obviously wish That you were there, but, you know

[00:24:24] The priorities, of course They can be very, very, very difficult I probably could have chosen another way But I didn't There are competing forces like there are No answers, just trade-offs As they say Totally, you know, and I don't know That I reflected on the trade-offs enough

[00:24:44] But there we go There would be a lot of mums and dads listing In this world Who maybe, you know Are you 15 years ago And have kids in teens Yeah And are facing that same push-pull And I think We've been in this area before on the podcast

[00:25:04] And as often is the case It's not a black and white answer It's always a day by day A case by case But to hear a man who's come out the other side No, think I've had the operation We've taken science as stepped in for us

[00:25:20] So it's a billion to one shot But, you know To hear you say that I think is a powerful thing And to help remind people Because when you're in it I'm sure when you're on that holiday You weren't thinking, ah, I could easily not go

[00:25:36] It would have seemed very urgent It was urgent And so I can, you know I can remind myself of the fact that it was urgent In the moment, that mountain seemed very real But now As a man in his mid-50s Well, you know what, I mean

[00:25:52] I went back and I tried to fix it And it went all tits up anyway So, you know That was always going to be the outcome So And I knew it was always going to be the outcome as well I suppose, anyway There we go

[00:26:08] And I was just thinking about sport The sport thing's really interesting With your kids It is so critical That they get involved in sport And it doesn't matter whether they're good or bad That's not the point Why do you feel that? What's the draw?

[00:26:26] Because it's this beautiful little microcosm of everything You know, and your teammates Having the I sell cricket for example To anyone that wants to listen I sell cricket, it's actually got nothing to do with cricket It's got everything to do with Sitting on the sidelines

[00:26:42] Watching your mates having a bat And being in a conversation Learning how to have a chat To your 10, 11 or 12 year old colleague That's really what cricket is And men of course We're face to face here I don't think men are that good at face to face

[00:26:58] I think we're very good I think that's the draw card of golf Which I've only just sort of Because I don't know This year in my 40s It's so The parallel We talk about parallel play with kids a lot When they're two or three

[00:27:16] They're not really playing with each other They're just parallel playing That's guys on the golf course Exactly That they can chat It's about the stroll You've reminded me of a little This might be a good tip I was on a plane

[00:27:34] He needed to make a decision in his life A school, a schooling decision We were sitting next door to each other And I had an iPad I know what I'll do I just typed a question On the iPad And then just slipped it across to him Beside me

[00:27:52] And then he started typing So we literally had a conversation Not looking at each other Not even speaking to each other But we had a really conversation for Charlie That's awesome I think that's so It comes back to Getting into their world Finding a way in

[00:28:14] And I don't think there are as many ways As we think there are They're really rare Those moments where you find a way To get into their world For me it was just realising That if you are a 15 year old boy

[00:28:28] It's pretty hard to sit down with dad And you have a conversation about the future It's hard to instigate Do you remember Actively instigating that stuff Like in other areas? Yes I think I try and I don't try and tell my children Anything And I do

[00:28:50] Try and learn from my children From the very start really They've got as much More, more And so I think having that As a model In your head For you it's a lot about questions And trying to find I will try and find a way to get them

[00:29:11] To the point where I want them to go You're always a marketer It'll never be tell And it will never be a sell And it will never be a tell It will be just a massage Perhaps Can you give me an example of Conversation might be

[00:29:29] Where it's question led With a teenager I think the trick is I like holding the mind Bombs So the trick is I know I'm just trying to think of one for you I'm talking but I know where I want this conversation to go But I'm going to throw

[00:29:51] A question out there Which is a million miles away I'm pretty sure I know how to get there This is a bit of ad training Because When you're trying to get a client To a place You can't really ask them To get there straight away Interesting

[00:30:13] Is that because it seems If it's your idea it's not going to stick And You do find the language In order to get Clients in this case To get them to a point where They've recognised What a good idea looks like And I'm sounding like

[00:30:35] I think I do do that with my children Do you know what I mean I don't want them to know that Can we cut I know this is Probably Sounds like it's a Harvard parenting school But I'm fascinated to know though

[00:30:53] I think a lot of people will be listening to this going That does make a lot of sense because We all know that if you tell your kid something That doesn't count That's what we all want We want them to use their own tools

[00:31:05] To come across the solution You can't be a father That tells your children what to do all the time It doesn't work and it creates space And tension And they probably They can probably hardly wait to leave And It's really important That it's obvious to say

[00:31:25] This respectful is very, very important It's almost the only word that matters I respect you Three-year-old, six-year-old, nine, 29-year-old As much as I'd like you to respect me So when my three-year-old Louis called me A decade one Christmas day That was Any Any wish-mantle in my ear

[00:31:47] It came up And tapped me on the shoulder I whispered to him, oh yeah, hey dad You're a decade Didn't you have a point? Yeah, exactly. So now we laugh About it. Truth is a defence We laugh and we go, yeah, yeah

[00:32:03] I can't remember why I was being a decade But I probably wasn't I would have been a decade Unfortunately our kids have learnt the word moron Which I mistakenly said to my daughter She goes, is that mean to say moron You said, you can say it to me

[00:32:17] It's a bit funny because you'd be like Turn off the lights, you moron Okay, it is funny, but you should know It wouldn't make someone feel good If you said it to them So I do worry that I've accidentally let that one slip through For comedic reasons

[00:32:31] There is in-house language And there's out-of-house language I like that. I like that So I think maybe And there's in-house behaviour And there's out-of-house behaviour So, you know If you had to boil it down to one word Not three, I reckon that one's right up there

[00:32:49] Dancing? Yeah, I do Because I call that both in-house behaviour And out-of-home behaviour as well Yes. So dancing in a sense That you're melding two concepts together? No. Well dancing is in like Literally dance Literally you, your child on the dance floor Not in the kitchen

[00:33:07] I think that's hugely important Man, I agree Every night we wouldn't go to bed till we danced Exactly, right? And so obviously the joy of that Rhythm's pretty important So, you know You gotta make sure Your kids got rhythm

[00:33:25] So you gotta do all you can to help them Is what I'm saying, right? And then if they feel free To get on the dance floor I think there's huge confidence In that as they get older As they're going through their teenage years Their 20s, you know

[00:33:41] They then become great on the dance floor And that's just so much fun When they go to their weddings or their 21st I love that I accidentally Thought it was an analogy but it is a specific tip But it is an analogy really Because it's teaching

[00:33:55] Freedom to express yourself And being Yeah, don't be afraid Don't be afraid to go for it You know And Just bust whatever move you want to bust Who cares, right? I love it I don't know how many dads Are big on it I would expect you would be

[00:34:19] But I do think that is a big part of fathering Show Our dancing in our house is about silliness Yes And without it ever being said Extra points are rewarded for new moves You know what I mean The focus around the kitchen If someone is doing something funny

[00:34:37] I've never really thought about this before But that's what we're really doing It's like a little Dramatic No competition but like a little dramatic game Where everyone is trying to come up with original moves And if it gets a laugh Then that's supported And it's creative

[00:34:55] And a little bit of parenting Let them do whatever they want Seriously Just go for it We've got to the point now where they all smoke Now Damn it Alright, Ryan it back in When I first saw Charlie Smoking outside The SP or something And

[00:35:23] He looks just like my dad My dad died 25 years ago So I have to admit I got this wave of nostalgia And love off the back of me Which of course I'm not saying that's appropriate But there's a thing About self expression And Which sounds to me like

[00:35:43] Of course we're not encouraging kids to smoke But in general That idea of As you said the respect Of going I respect you to make your own decisions And you respect me And it comes back to not interfering It comes back to you going

[00:35:59] That's not a good idea They'll get to that point Eventually And hopefully not too late But they will get to that point It's so interesting because we all know Of course the dangers of smoking But in a serious Sense It tells me that on the hierarchy Of importance

[00:36:21] A dabbling in smoking Is not What's more important than that The cost of that is the fact That they have You've got that sense of freedom And you've stuck true to that It's not conditional freedom Of course be free as long as you're choosing the right things

[00:36:39] But then don't be free if you're doing anything I don't agree They come together That's right and I want them To Have that sense That sense of liberty and freedom And being able to express themselves And Feeling Not feeling constipated and constrained I think that's a

[00:37:01] Huge part of And maybe that's a bit of me Reflecting on a lot of that I think our society is often constipated and constrained And I'm not asking them to be crazy I don't want them to I wouldn't care if they were radicals frankly

[00:37:17] I'd quite like them to be revolutionaries I really wouldn't care But I'm not encouraging that Because again that's predetermined Again that's one step to Outcome determined I really admire They shall be a revolutionary He's the t-shirt I really admire that you are Absolutely walking the walk of going

[00:37:39] Freedom is freedom, I'm really letting you Choose and of course they understand consequence Consequences are part of living in a society And the consequences of smoking aren't great But I'm not You're obviously not there to lecture them On the consequences you've given them

[00:37:53] They're old and you've given them that foundation Yeah, I think so I think that The notion of experimentation Is giving them a sense And I think that's just The conversations that you have around the dining room table I'm not saying experimentation It's all going to the

[00:38:13] The bong room No All ideas are good Ideas are good until they prove themselves otherwise And so a conversation About I've had an idea about X I've had an idea about Y The first reaction Is all it's got to be I like that, tell me about that

[00:38:33] What in your mind kills a good idea Well no And it's a To actually Dampen enthusiasm around ideas I mean I wouldn't Ever be like That But that's a part of I think how I've been a dad So the converse being yes Is a huge part of your

[00:38:57] Natural instinct Definitely a big part of it And we will always talk about ideas It's like oh my god What about that Lego show And I got a home mission I think I probably sent you a note Oh my god How good an idea is that

[00:39:15] It's any form of idea really To create a culture in your family Of celebrating ideas Is obviously important Very much so And then also recognising that Not all ideas are good That comes later And also recognising that they're not really your ideas anyway In what sense

[00:39:35] They're floating out there And their combinations of other things But so I love that idea How do you instill in your kids What did you do to instill in your kids that idea The concept of going You know, keep having ideas And even if it's combining

[00:39:53] Even if they're not, you know All ideas aren't our ideas anyway But still feel the pride and ownership Of having a new way of saying something I don't know how I did that I can't give you the playbook Other than most days

[00:40:07] There would have been a conversation about some sort of idea And Even sort of in Back to the sport I do a bit of coaching And I try and find new and interesting ways For Teaching kids how to play And finding We played a soccer game

[00:40:27] And I said, okay, so here's the rules It's only a goal if everyone's touched the ball Yeah, great So trying to find different ways To just approach That's normal, let's go and have a game of soccer But the problem is of course Especially when they're 10, 11, 12

[00:40:43] The really good sports person Always gets the ball and always gets the goal And always gets the votes So trying to find different ways To play the same game That gives everyone the opportunity To express themselves That's hugely important I think So every day Just chat about stuff

[00:41:03] Well it's funny, it seemed like Respect and just have great ideas It's not seem obvious to you but I don't know if that's obvious to everyone I think they're two great Things to touch on in terms of A culture A habit to form Within the family

[00:41:19] The habit which I'm maybe Most proud of Proud is a terrible word But the habit that I like Is pizza on a Sunday Yes I think that is a really If you can find a habit Around food For centuries

[00:41:39] For thousands of years families have found a habit around food So there's no big deal there It's a nice, it comes with pizza Exactly So every Sunday I have to say Every Sunday I haven't done it for the last A while But I have done it a lot

[00:41:57] During our family life And make the pieces from scratch Invite people over Really just Be enthusiastic About the experimentation I invented the belizza It's spaghetti It's a bolognese sauce on a pizza That's not a pizza Don't mind that I don't mind that at all Anyway

[00:42:23] We'd have a lot of fun there And Charlie's great band Called the Brungus, really good And the Brungus In our shed for a decade I was going to mention this The idea that you created your Band space at your house What was the payoff there for you?

[00:42:41] Oh, well Or cost No cost at all We did lots of pizzas And lots of beers and lots of fun And thank goodness They chose our house to be the centre Of the Brungus Maybe it was deliberate Naturally, but from when he was a teenager To have that

[00:43:03] Outlet at home I'm always fascinated by those sliding doors moments Where it was like It could have been anyone's house And the fact that it happened to be yours Turned out to be such a rich experience For you guys There's something really important about As dads

[00:43:21] You're sort of a cliche Everyone's a leader Maybe the construct we have Is that person there Always going to be the school captain That person is always going to be the captain Of the hockey team That's our concept of leadership Where the reality is Every single person

[00:43:41] Has leadership skills In a given context So to watch creative leadership For example Is very different to leadership on the sporting field What does creative leadership look like? The creation of a band And recognising That I'm going to bring all those different players in

[00:43:59] And we're going to create something There was nothing and now there's something I don't think anything happens by yourself Like what can you do by yourself? With nothing to work against But isn't this all It's awesome how it works The notion of Assets and liabilities In that

[00:44:19] As you would say, we're all equal We've all got assets And we've all got liabilities And I just That's true of course There is the occasional outlier Who's proprietorship maybe Beyond belief What is he Harry Styles on the weekend My good god There is an outlier right there

[00:44:41] He looked at me Did notice you were walking on her a little bit As he came in here Real quick one With growing kids Can you think of something That was a little thing When there were kids But it's a big thing to you now

[00:44:59] At the time you're like that's little But it's actually huge The first thing that comes to mind is how pleased they are To see you when they're little It's a glorious thing It is Do you notice when that went? Teenage is really

[00:45:16] But you know what it comes back I can reassure you It comes back And it may not be as You know completely crazy Then it may not run down the corridor To give you a hug But they are still very You know they're You still get a hug

[00:45:36] And you still get a kiss There's still great affection there It does go away for a little bit But I'm pleased to say it does come back That's beautiful At the concept of Not having that at the moment It just breaks my heart

[00:45:52] Exactly, well it will go away But that's not such a bad thing You know at that age When the umbilical cords cut They just Every day they're progressively Getting further away from you So that's good we celebrate that And then when they're let's say 16 15, 16, 17 probably some time away

[00:46:12] Is not a bad thing And then the role that dad plays Versus the role that mum plays as they get older All that stuff is you know all in front of you Amazing Gold standard, do you have a gold standard Example of dadding

[00:46:26] I think if you can find A way to spend Lengthy you know let's say a week away You and child or you and Two or two of them I am not mum and no cousins And no friends, no boyfriends No girlfriends just you and

[00:46:42] If you can find a way to do that That's a joyful thing I like and that's what I'm such a big fan of camping even though I never camped growing up And I'm not good at it Because it gives the day is just Full with purpose

[00:46:56] With sort of staying alive And I would add like things like bike rides And stuff to this too because you have An art, it doesn't mean Anything to anyone but it creates a mission And it creates if there's a point

[00:47:08] To it, that's right and I was going to say Do you have any from your experience Doing those trips, I tried to do this so far So good once a year with each kid That's better than I ever did But what I've been thinking about a lot

[00:47:20] This week and I'd love to get your advice on it Is You look at the days and you go That's all well and good going away camping But if the day is filled up with like Rushing to what we were talking About before, you can actually miss

[00:47:34] The point of what you're doing there Yeah that's right but even if you You got all that effort to carve out the space And get them out of school for a few days and whatnot That's the one pitfall I see Is that you could miss the chance

[00:47:48] For randomness to occur And for you to face it together You may have got wisdom beyond your years here Hamish, genuinely I think certainly in my case It's only as I've got older That I've realised that It doesn't have to be a rush

[00:48:04] And that I do need to Just settle down and just Be, you know, we're doing this right now And not think about What's come before and not think about what's come after It's a very difficult thing to do For some, certainly was difficult for me

[00:48:18] It's nowhere near as difficult As it used to be when I was your age I would have found that very hard to do I would have found it very hard To go away for four days And not think about everything else that was going on

[00:48:30] So I've only got a few occasions When I've been away, you know myself Daughter Claudia I talked about You know, and that So that trip to New York To New York to I mean you say it was an accident Clearly organised to meet the German Claudia

[00:48:48] But it was awesome I was like, what are you doing? I was like, what took tomorrow? That's completely my bad That trip again We talk about these times And we've had different people talk about this Whatever it is I mean, you know

[00:49:08] Amazing to be able to go overseas But even if it's just like, let's go Eight kilometres away and we're in the bush I already feel this The very first time I did the camping with Sonny He was five I think? Or maybe just about seven or five

[00:49:22] And I was like, easy now Like I could probably do five of these a year Cause it's just one weekend and he's little We got one in that year I've locked in three months in advance Ever since then and you don't get

[00:49:34] You get nowhere near as many chances As you think you're going to get To do that time and you have to lock it out For you was that That became important You know, to do that time When I think back I don't think I did enough

[00:49:50] But when I have done it I'm grateful And I'm not a fisherman For example I'm jealous of Dad And the fishing boat with the kids Going out fishing Cause the system's there The framework is there They don't have to look at each other A lot of great conversations

[00:50:12] Must happen between father and son Father and daughter out on the fishing boat For sure I wish that I'd done a bit more of that I didn't and I'm not likely to in the future I think, as you were saying before With your conversation

[00:50:26] With the laptop when Charlie was 15 I think we fall into the trap Of when the kids were young We're going to have heaps of chances To connect and what I learned From speaking to guys who are only 10, 15 years further down the journey Is we obviously just don't have

[00:50:42] You don't have as many chances To connect You've got to absolutely seize them Think through how you're going to seize it As well Because if you try and confront it You're unlikely to get where you want to get to

[00:50:56] So you've got to sort of edge your way around it I think Hamish I've got a long list here Are these your notes? I thought it was a print out of What I sent you This is your notes Can you give us anything jumping out

[00:51:10] That you feel you would like to pass on I've worked out how to be a dad Number one rule Let them do whatever they want Number two Make them think that they're very special That's beautiful Number three Believe that they can do no wrong Four, pay for everything

[00:51:32] Five, accept that the floor Accept that the floor is in fact a cupboard Let them steal Your socks and jocks I've actually gone to put on my shoes They've even stolen my shoelaces I mean this is The ultimate giving Really quickly in the vein of

[00:51:52] I think we can do no wrong And I think we would talk before off here About letting kids be delusion Delusion-ly confident I reckon Which I love But I want to ask you about this concept Before we do the rest of the list

[00:52:08] Because I reckon there's a school As we're talking about don't get ahead of yourself This is the old school thought of Don't get ahead of yourself And I think there's people There's even current day parents Could destroy them when they get out So I've got to

[00:52:24] My own dad thought he was doing me a lot of favors By constantly trying to bring me back down to earth Which I don't, this is certainly not My hunch for parenting This concept that you can like over love Or over make them delusion-ly confident

[00:52:38] Yeah or don't, you've made them too confident But here's the thing Why do you say that? Because they can shape their world So they're not entering Into a world which is going to determine How they go They determine how they're going to go And if they're not confident

[00:52:56] Even delusion-ly so Then how do they succeed? It's incredibly difficult Because there's lots of other people Around that aren't going to be helpful So it I think Gives them a sense Of their self-worth And their as I say Their leadership capabilities And okay so you've got a choice

[00:53:18] With your children They can be confident or otherwise What would you like them to be? And I think not to be confused with arrogance No You mix it with humility and respect Of all the things you've talked about And that's the guarantee

[00:53:34] That they're not going to be blindsided by the world They can shape it They shape their part of it I'm not saying they shape the world Their part of the world Name them after a girlfriend This is an amazing recap Oh dear Oh dear If they've got

[00:53:56] A musical skill If you feel like they've got that music in them Make sure you double down on that Absolutely Keep going this is I've said everyone's a leader So I understand that Because I think a lot of what we do with our kids

[00:54:12] They're not going to be that leader Everyone's a leader And I think recognising that And I like what you said about It's in their context They might be It's about letting them find the situations Where they feel a confidence to lead Exactly find that one

[00:54:30] You've got to realise that You do model behaviour, Hamish So too many martinis on a Sunday Is not a good idea Recognise that your kids will pull you up And be grateful when they pull you up Yep So if you're too loud at the football

[00:54:46] And your daughter says it's time to shut up That's because it is time to shut up That's valuable customer feedback I love the notion of how First Nations Indigenous Australians Teach their kids They teach them when the kids ready to learn I just think that

[00:55:02] There's something really powerful about that So okay They're not expressing an interest in Maths But at some point they might come and ask you And at that point, that's when they're ready to roll So much more powerful than the time being right I just love that

[00:55:18] I love the notion of people of children being innocent radicals I've also written here Let them walk all over you What do you think you meant by that When you wrote it down I just think don't be the Don't try and be the boss dad Don't block him

[00:55:38] Don't get in the way Invent food, baliza, good Caesar salad pie Didn't work I'm not warring to it as much as the baliza Egg and bacon sausage roll Did work Not bad Let them put tomato sauce on everything Don't you reckon? My wife's an issue with the sugar

[00:56:00] But jeez if it gets the broccoli down I reckon the net net is still positive Exactly And just listen to their wisdom That is what I'm so glad I accidentally thought that sheet was the email Can I have this?

[00:56:14] Because I would love to keep this and put it somewhere Or I can read it very often Can I, no That's the joy and the treat of getting to do this And thank you for giving up You're one of the busiest men

[00:56:26] And I know there'll be so many dads And many many mums listening to this Who are at the start of their journey And they're considering being a parent And they hear your hard fought Hard earned One more thing Us dads we've got to remember

[00:56:42] That we will teach our children How To love their wife Or their partner Or show them what love is And that may be the most important thing of all So if your children can see The right behaviours in that front That's not a bad thing

[00:57:00] That may be the most important That we model love Model love to our partner But I also think what you've clearly done with your kids Is that you've modelled love to your kids And that's how they treat their kids Which I love Amazing mate

[00:57:16] Hey mish is glad that he talked to another dad Now he's gonna say some other stuff But he will be by himself Man so many things to love So many things to love from Russ And that list And it feels like a very special

[00:57:32] Document feels like a really special document He shared with us all and to have had I'm just immensely grateful That he would take the time to go and do that For me, for us For all the beneficiaries That we have at there

[00:57:46] Also so many times after I heard him Say that line about going I kind of remember what the crisis was about At work That stuck with me and I'm sure that will stick With me as well The only thing I'd say listening back to that again

[00:58:00] Is I probably should have dug down a bit on the bolitzer The bolognese pizza I just want you to know that I know The concern there would be how much Sauce, like the heaviness of the sauce

[00:58:10] The last thing you want it to do is have too much sauce on it I trust Russ has found The right ratio but in future episodes I can give you an update on that Thanks for listening, we'll see you next time

[00:58:26] This episode of How Are The Dad's Dad Was produced by Tim Bartley And his good friend Hamish Blake Our theme music is Of course the star of the show Apart from the guests and by the incredibly funny And clever Tom Cardi

[00:58:40] We recorded this on the lands of the war-unjury people Of the cool nation who have passed their parenting stories Down for thousands of generations And we pay our respects If you want to drop us a line head to our website HowAreTheDadsDad.com Thanks again for listening

[00:58:56] His tiny mind about what he learned So he'll keep on the dads And force from them to talk to him So he can find out How Are The Dad's Dad