How Christian O'Connell Dads

[00:00:00] Hamish is a dad who loves to be a dad, but he knows there's more to learn about being a dad So he made this show where he talks to all the dads so he can find out How Other Dads Dad How Other Dads Dad

[00:00:19] Hello everyone, welcome to How Other Dads Dad, where I, Hamish, sit down as Tom Cardi's incredible song alludes to With Other Dads and find out how they dad. Today's chat is an absolute cracker. It's again one of those ones

[00:00:34] I feel again this season, they're so dense. It's one of the ones you might want to go through twice Christian OConnell is a legendary radio broadcaster, comedian, author, presenter

[00:00:48] As you'll be able to tell from his accent, he's from the UK and we actually met him through radio circles Years and years ago, like probably Andy and I met him about 15 years ago

[00:01:00] He knew what he heard about us and we happened to be in London and we went on his breakfast show Which at the time was the biggest breakfast show in the UK Then he decided to move to Australia, threw it all in and moved to Australia

[00:01:13] And it was a really amazing move and it's sort of his testament to the kind of guy he is as you're about to hear So anyway, he threw it all in. He moved to Australia and started radio in Australia on Melbourne's Gold FM

[00:01:25] And then quickly rose in the ranks to become the number one FM breaky show in Melbourne and has been ever since With some I will acknowledge excellent assistants from Jackpost

[00:01:38] So what I love about Christian is A, he's a hilarious person and B, he's a very deep thinker as you're about to hear too And he's a loving, extremely loving person and I think wonderful dad

[00:01:49] But he's a doer, you know, he's someone that sort of looked at a bunch of scary stuff in life and he's done it And I think that comes up, that theme comes up a fair bit in this chat

[00:01:59] He doesn't specifically say it but you'll see what I mean as you hear that he's the sort of person that is not afraid to acknowledge And figure out what the scary stuff in life is

[00:02:11] And then even if you're feeling super unprepared, just kind of wait into the scary stuff It was really fun doing this with Christian and I'm super grateful, I hope you get a lot out of this Please enjoy how Christian O'Connell dads Christian O'Connell, welcome to the studio

[00:02:34] Thank you very much for inviting me in Slash Airbnb, but not always the most soundproof but we've got a lull in garbage trucks Yeah, Foney knew a guy who had access to radio studios that are all professionally soundproof

[00:02:48] I appreciate you driving across town, off and out in the rain Leaving your job at the studios, driving across town Literally why I left a broadcast standard studio to come to something with a hard concrete floor And someone cutting down a tree over the road

[00:03:04] On Vinday as well Yeah, this would be great Man, I'm so excited to do this with you We've known each other for a very long time And it's crazy to think not that I met your kids like when we first met each other

[00:03:17] But when we met, you had younger kids and now they are obviously that amount of years old They are well done You get the physical journey of aging One year for one for one One birthday for one year Traditional system Yeah

[00:03:32] Give us your dad's stats though for obviously people that don't know How many kids? How old? I have two daughters, they're both teenagers now Almost 19, Ruby the eldest one And Lois is 16 So I've been a dad for almost 19 years

[00:03:48] Does that freak you out when you think about that? Yeah, but it also makes me really proud and honored Because you can suddenly look back and you see all of it You see obviously a lot of mistakes But I can also see some of the other bits too

[00:04:03] You see where they are now and who they're becoming And you get a better idea of it all And what's really special is how the relationship is still changing and evolving Some of it quicker and more uncomfortable than any other time being a dad actually

[00:04:21] It's really rapid now Because sometimes in the early years, you'd have this The early years of being a dad, it's glacial You look at your watch and you're like how can it only be quarter past seven Sunday morning?

[00:04:31] How many more blue-ey episodes are we going to be down? And then you spend a lot of time on the floor I want to get up my hips are hurting, my back aches You haven't been on the floor for a while? No, it's great, it's awesome

[00:04:42] We're doing chairs now Chairs, it's brilliant, I mean the chair's yours Oh that's nice Reclinus That's really nice But it's funny because I think about it too I've got a five and an eight year old and I'm like I know enough to know that they go so quick

[00:04:57] And so I try not to rush it But it's, it is, you know, it's zipping past Like I cannot believe Yeah, you've already experienced that It is the blink of an eye It's really really quick actually I remember my dad saying once you have kids

[00:05:10] It's like your life goes on two times speed And I was like yeah, yeah But actually it's true And already you'll have felt like God those last eight years have gone so quickly I mean, I actually was thinking about this this morning

[00:05:22] So I'm thinking about my son who's eight He turns nine this year and it just hit me this morning As I was thinking about it and I was like I know he's not fit to do this shit That means he's ten next year Yeah

[00:05:33] His 10th birthday is next year I got given, before I even started doing Legomasters The Collector's Edition of the Millennium Falcon Which is like this rule It's like 5,000 piece like I said And he was literally like four years old And I put it away to be like

[00:05:49] We'll build this when he's ten Like he won't appreciate it Now, when he's ten You know, this will take us a month to build I never thought that day would come. So I mean, that weird inflection point, I think of the journey where you are like,

[00:06:03] you know, I've actively tried to think about this stuff from when they're little. In fact, I reckon I was guilty of going when they were like really, when he was like four and five, I'm like, I'm doing all this stuff now, man,

[00:06:12] people don't get round to this stuff to the kids at teens and I'm already doing it, man. Like, you know, thinking about this. Yeah, but that's really important because actually those early years are really, really, it is. You're seeding it all.

[00:06:22] And I'm not saying it was a waste, but I was guilty of thinking, oh my God, I've started so early. You'll be too soon. Now, I'm like, oh my God, he's nearly out of primary school. Like a couple of years he's out of primary school.

[00:06:33] Like that was about the right time to start. I wasn't as early as I thought I was. I guess you're in that transition and Timmy and I were talking about this actually the day where part of being in your 40s

[00:06:43] is going, you know, in your 20s and 30s you just like, you feel like you got, you could start 10 new careers, still figuring what you want to do. You could start 10 new kids. Exactly. Like life is infinite. Yeah. Life, you've got time. It's all potential and possibility.

[00:06:59] It's all potential. You've got time to do hundreds of things if you so desire and there's no rush to think about them. And then you get into your mid 40s and you're like, all right, there's actually time left for about eight things. What are they going to be?

[00:07:11] They really start carrying a lot away. I'm a week away from 50, so my choose your own adventure. There's only a couple of doors left. It's really, you've got maybe two or three moves left in you. One of them is into the ground.

[00:07:24] So what are they going to be? Like, yeah, all choose wisely. And that's the thing is what she kids say. She's like, oh, this isn't, it's, there's still little, but it's like now once you intense, like, okay, that's not all potential. My kids now 16 and 18,

[00:07:37] that is like the prime of like there. When I see them, they're like beautiful open sunflowers. I look at them and I just see my own reflection of a dying man, a slowly dying man. I'm like, oh God, you're so young and pure. I'm so old.

[00:07:54] Do you think about your mortality more as you? Yeah, my 16-year-old daughter said last week we went out for pizza and we were having a glass of wine each, right? And she goes, be honest with me, right? Are you frightened of death now? And I start loving her.

[00:08:08] Now. Such a... The now makes two questions like now, that wine. Given what you look like. Cause you must, you must be when you look in the mirror. You'd be human if you're not. I mean, who wouldn't be scared of something that's gonna definitely happen this weekend?

[00:08:26] So I did start to think, actually should I, cause when you turn 50, you know where you are in like, it's like a TV show. You know, you're not in season one, two or three. You know, you gotta stop rapping stuff up soon. Bringing it all together.

[00:08:42] Yeah, you gotta start landing the plane. Yep. Yeah, I can. Yeah. I've only even known that I started gripping this couch about this. Yes. I know, right? I have freaks. Landing the plane. Yeah. That will haunt me. Cause I'm blowing out my 50 candles next week.

[00:09:00] You've begun your descent. Yes. And I guess that's the, then you go, okay, well what have I left? Like what's the least? Are you thinking about legacy? It's been too motivational. Sorry. It's actually one of my most depressing chats of the year. Let's go back. Please, please.

[00:09:12] Let's go back to, where we do start with a lot of our guests. The three, your three cornerstones, your three philosophies. What is it for you being a dad? Well, first of all, I would say that being a dad,

[00:09:24] to me, is just about the most important thing I've ever done. In fact, it is. And it's actually a real privilege. And I love talking to new dads. I love talking to dads who are a couple of years on from me because actually when you talk about,

[00:09:37] when I hear people talk about their kids, you're actually learning about their attitude and sort of how they treat life. Whether it's like- Your priorities. Yeah, and I think it's very revealing actually. And then, you know, there's so much emphasis on what we're teaching kids.

[00:09:51] But the biggest thing I've learned now in almost 19 years is, you're constantly showing them a series of lessons. And it's only sometimes those involved words. They're looking at everything you do. It's all a lesson, right? They see how you handle anger, fear. They watch all of it.

[00:10:08] My kids now will say, oh, I noticed you do this when you're angry. And I went, how do you know that? And it's like they go, because we've always been watching you. Yeah. So you're always showing them something. And so once you become aware of that,

[00:10:20] it actually then you can open up a bit more. It's like now I have different conversations with my kids where if I can feel myself getting annoyed after a bad day at work, I can say this is why I'm so irritated. Isn't it interesting?

[00:10:30] Why am I so irritated? Then I can bring them into the conversation. So they're trying to help me work through my emotions and thoughts. But actually I'm hopefully teaching them a lesson. You will have days like this. Be curious about it and just pull some threads as to-

[00:10:44] Interesting. Why am I so annoyed right now stuck? Because our tendency is probably you think I'm the only one that can sense this and I'll change my behaviour and I'll trick everyone to thinking I'm fine or whatever. But when you realise, hey, you're not fooling anyone. No.

[00:11:01] A better path for you, I think is what you're saying is to go down is to be honest about it and discover it together, which hopefully does imprint on them that this is the way to get through bad days is to be honest about it.

[00:11:15] Yeah, and I think the importance of question. So I always like to think the kids that everything is up for discussion when you become solid with the rules or framework and that good luck with that. Solid things break and crack over time as well.

[00:11:28] I think the more that you can ask, hey look, everything's up for discussion. We're not always going to agree on it but we can always have a conversation about it. I think the most important thing if I could ball down this one thing

[00:11:37] to say to all dads is the biggest thing you can ever do is keep them talking. The moment the conversation stops That's so good. And you've lost connection to them. And about times you go, basically it's the same advice that you give to bank robbers

[00:11:49] that you can trace the whole hostage negotiators and that is you wait for teenage years, come out, you are a hostage negotiator. Keep them talking, keep them off the line. We've got some mackers outside the door. I'm moving back. But it's just to keep them talking.

[00:12:07] What ways have you found that like, do you have strategies for that or is it? You have to learn some. I reckon in my 18 or 19 years, I've been 19 different dads. The dad who you've been up until 10 or 11, they don't need that one when they're teenagers.

[00:12:24] The biggest thing they need to do is shut up with those opinions and earn those opinions and listen. They just actually, they don't need to fix anything. They want you to just be like a witness. Just let them talk about it. The amount of times I'd be,

[00:12:40] I'd be struggling to say something, some awful thing had happened at school, some teacher done to me and I'm thinking about this is what's going to happen I'm going full John Wick, I'm going to that school tomorrow. And then afterwards they go,

[00:12:50] thank you so much, I feel so much better. I'm like shit internally. I'm like, I feel so stressed right now. Absorbed at all. Yes, I've taken it all on. A dad sacrifice. I was eight hours skipping out there and I'm like, because they've just,

[00:13:02] maybe that's what dad bods are. Yes, that's what dad bods. I just took on all your problems. Second hand stress. Yes. So yeah, listening is really, really it's just about the best thing you could do for your kids. I really value that too because especially as someone that,

[00:13:19] again, you are walking the walk, you are there with a 16 and a 19 year old, you are deep in it. I'm someone that knows those, I will enter those waters. And I suppose it's that thing like here, if you're talking, they're not

[00:13:32] and the way to keep them talking is. When my 18 year old left to Cutlery, Ciccadig University, right, I thought, started to write a letter of advice. I don't have a paragraph in, I realize she fucking knows all this stuff. She's ignored all of it.

[00:13:50] I just screw that up. You don't need a letter from me with more advice. You don't need that. That isn't what you need right now actually. What did she need? She needed, she needs to be empowered like, I'm here but I'm on the sidelines now.

[00:14:02] I'll come running back on when you need me. But actually these are your mistakes. They're your consequences now. I'm always going to be here but I'm not, I'm, I'll be walking alongside with you but you all, you've got to start walking your own path now.

[00:14:14] That's hard for them. And it's really hard for you guys as parents because it was like when she left, my wife and I, it felt like we'd been sacked, right? And then you have to reapply, like they've changed the job description now. This is who you are.

[00:14:27] I said, Dan, like, there's hardly anything to do now. I'm like a consultant. Just where's the rest of it? That's it. That's it. Until I die. This is miserable. One casual shift here a week. There's only one bullet point. I used to be full time. It's brutal.

[00:14:47] I'm not even going to get a group certificate. No, it's brutal. You might as well pay me cash. I'm not going to pay tax on this. Yeah. And you hope that you've banked enough good will in that relationship that actually something new, different and actually deeper will grow.

[00:15:01] That's really, that is a really profound end and that's definitely an amazing spot on. To your analogy of you're on the sidelines. That is an, so in sporting situations, when you're on the sidelines, you get called on, right? Let's say you're a medical staff

[00:15:17] and you get called on if you need to help. You don't call yourself on. That's an interesting delineation because I think with it as a parent- I'm not sure that the coach just came running over. What are you doing? I thought I'd come on.

[00:15:28] Guys, give me the ball. That is what we do as parents of young kids. We call ourselves on all the time. We go, they're in trouble. Yeah. And I'm running on. I know how to fix this. I know how to make it all go away.

[00:15:40] And if you're really honest, the main reason you're trying to fix it and make it go away, of course it's to make them feel less pain. But most of you are, it's to stop you feeling so bad

[00:15:51] and you have to be really aware of what is your crap and what is their stuff. And when we take on or try and fix everything, and I've got this wrong so many times. I fail at this. You disempower them actually. Weekly. Daily. Daily.

[00:16:03] And it's okay, you're going to keep doing that. I'm still doing it now, but it's just being aware. And I'm better now at saying mid-conversations. You know what? I'm really sorry. I've just started to go and fix it mode. Tell me again.

[00:16:14] I don't think I heard what it really is. Try me again. And then they can go, okay, thank you. And then you can have a deeper conversation. Otherwise all you're going to get is disconnection. You'll disempower them as well. If you're trying to take away their power

[00:16:27] by telling them what to think, feel and do, you're, they just stop coming to you as well. That's true. And they did for a while. They stopped coming to my wife and I. They were like, oh God, your mum

[00:16:35] we're just going to fix it mode in your life. Yeah. Yeah, we do do that. Because I think that is my greatest fear. One of my biggest fears looking forward is the disconnect. Yeah. And you know, you'll have less and less and less connection as they get older.

[00:16:48] And we're trying to minimize that. But it's that weird conundrum of going, the more I try and jump in because I don't want to lose you, the more I'll... It's not going to be anything. It's grabby thing. And it's not... It's grabby. It is. It's not be grabby.

[00:17:04] Take it off me. No one likes to... It's not be grabby dad. Don't snatch. Don't be... No, so in terms of my three words, the first one would be joy. And also as part of that, enjoy, enjoy. There's so much to worry about raising them and teaching them.

[00:17:19] What about actually just enjoying being around them? And then you have a different way. It's not so heavy. You've got to teach them something. It's like, you're still trying to work life out yourself. You're the person you think you're going to teach them. Good luck with that.

[00:17:33] I think it's more just about enjoying them. When you think the job is actually to enjoy being with them, then it's a totally different way of being a parent around them. That is really good because also, first thing I think about there

[00:17:43] and I'm sure everyone's different here is... You have this idea, especially with... And I know I keep talking through this lens of having younger kids, but like that you're in charge of planning the day. Like you're in charge of the week's activities or whatever.

[00:17:55] And we fall into that trap, I think, of going, I'm going to plot out the week or the day and then if I've done that, that's good. And I feel a lot of friction in the household. Certainly an outhouse comes from like,

[00:18:05] well, the kids minds are just pinging, bopping and getting drawn everywhere. And it's that friction of... They pick up on your energy. It's that friction of being like, no, no, no, we've got to do this other thing that I'd planned and the ability to let go of that,

[00:18:18] yeah, I think is what you're saying and just enjoy letting their minds lead certain activities all the day. Yeah. And also kids don't care about all the big things you've got planned right. All they care about is this now. That's it.

[00:18:34] And so it was like when I went to my 18 year old been planning it for six months, as you know, to go on this dad-daughter trip. I didn't. So before you go away, let's just go away. The two of us are doing it with the younger sister

[00:18:44] and two is time. Let's just go away. In fact, we love nature. We're going out walking. Let's go to Queenstown. Let's go to New Zealand. I really want to talk to you about this because I know you went on this trip last year.

[00:18:53] What did you have in your mind for this trip? We'll get back to the rest of the big three. Like it's in our instinct to go, you know, you went and walked the Roteburn Trail, which is like a famous beautiful walking.

[00:19:03] It's one of the greatest sort of treks in the world. Magic in the South Island of New Zealand. Now, you obviously like going into that, you're like, we'll do this, we'll do this. You can't help but fantasize about how it's going to go.

[00:19:13] And in your mind, it's a movie and it has to have scenes. So it's like, we're doing this overnight here. We're there, we're there, we're there, we're there. There's nine amazing moments here. You do pre-production. That's the promo. I've got my shooting schedule. Yeah, this is great.

[00:19:28] I've got her lines where she's crying and she says, thank you, Dad. Reality? Oh my gosh. It was like, so I had all these plans and you think I'd know this looks a bit stressy and grabby and solid. Doesn't look very light and free-flowing,

[00:19:45] all the stuff that she's loved about you. Suddenly, I'd never set up an Excel spreadsheet in my life. I had an Excel spreadsheet. I actually watched a documentary. How do you see these things? Right, so I've got this Excel spreadsheet.

[00:19:58] So you watched the documentary and how to use Excel to plan out the moments that you were going to have in nature. Yes. Go figure. And then it was just like a universe where that is not the week you need.

[00:20:11] And so we got there and suddenly she wasn't very well. We cancelled 80% of the stuff. What it meant was we hung out even more together. We still did some great walks. It's beautiful there. But we did so much more by doing less.

[00:20:25] And the big thing I literally wrote it down and I got on the post-it note by my desk at home was no small moments because the highlight of the trip at the end of the week when I said, what did you really love?

[00:20:36] We did do the root bone all that. She said, oh, this is playing Scrabble, having a glass of wine in the evening. It's playing Scrabble. We got those. We hadn't ever played Scrabble, right? She'd always got it so boring. She wasn't very well. We need to do something.

[00:20:47] We were playing it every day. When we were out, we were like, oh, we get another game in before we're going out for dinner. That was the hot one. And then making up words and putting swear words down and the laughter in that moment

[00:20:58] with the beautiful backdrop there. But really it was about being present and enjoying, again, enjoying each other's company. If we'd never been out doing these walks, you're taking photos a lot of time going, I plan this for six months. It's not quite giving me what I wanted.

[00:21:12] I feel shortchanged when actually the biggest lesson I got was like all the magical stuff you've had with her. It's not been the big stuff. We took her to Disneyland with her 10. They don't even remember that now. It cost me a fortune. They don't remember any of it.

[00:21:26] When I go, on Father's Day, when they play back some of their favorite moments, it's the small stuff. They go, do you remember on a Saturday morning we should just take a flask of hot chocolate and go and walk the dogs?

[00:21:36] And I'm like, yeah, yeah, then what happened? They went, no, no, no, is that? And I'm like, oh, oh right. Okay, that was the magic. I thought it was when we got there we'd play hide and seek. I don't remember that.

[00:21:47] They just remember that you were present with them there. And it's that stuff where I'm into minds here because one of my favorite things in the world is planning adventures. I don't ever lose that, right? Don't ever lose that. Do that.

[00:21:59] But the next layer on being good at that and you've done this, I look now at what you've done here is this is the black belt example. It's the ability to go, you have to plan the adventure because just going, I just booked us tickets

[00:22:13] booked us tickets to the Gold Coast. We'll see what happens. Something will happen but it's gonna be a bit loosey-goosey. No, you need to make room for the surprise. That's it, like you go in for something. We're going for this exciting adventure. We're doing this walk in nature.

[00:22:28] We've got a mission and we do, this comes up in various ways on the show but you don't know what's gonna happen but you can always guarantee it won't be the mission because things are gonna come up. But I definitely suffer from this occasionally

[00:22:43] have that tendency to go but we planned the, what about the movie? What about the scenes? And you realize that it's actually not the movie it's the making of the movie. That's the real, that's what you're making. You're making the docker about how the movie never got made.

[00:22:56] Which is always funnier, right? You're always funnier. It's mantle a man-chop. Like it's not the actual movie you're making the docker about how you couldn't get the movie made. And you have to, the sooner I think as dads and I wish I'd realized this sometimes sooner in moments

[00:23:11] sooner you realize that you're making it's about the making of the show it's not actually about the show. That's when you have that freedom. Yeah, and you push back into being present which is what it's the greatest gift you can ever give yourself and everyone

[00:23:22] is just being present. We get so caught up in the to-do list and there is a lot to do as parents, right? It's hard, it's amazing but it's really, really hard but being present it's like I see dads who are supposedly hanging out for now with their kids

[00:23:36] half the time they're not there they're on the phone or quickly just check their email. You break off spending five minutes in a day with them but that five minutes will feel like five hours if you're really just with them. And some of my favorite moments have been

[00:23:49] with the kids who sometimes watching TV shows and just, you know, there's nothing being said but there's so much going on because it's not about the words it's the space in between all the talking. I love, you know, and I know how special this is

[00:24:02] even when my daughter's like can you just watch TV with me dad? I'm like yes. Absolutely, I would love to. Yeah, it's that. That's where you realize that that's the quality of your relationship. If they're not comfortable in the silences

[00:24:14] or you feel you need to fill it by doing stuff then that's worth looking at. Do you have bits where you look back now sort of 19 years in and having those teenage years something with Ruby, you know, coming to an end do you have moments where you're like

[00:24:31] I could have been more present or did you learn how to be more present as time went on? No, yeah, both. And even now still, you know you're still making that mistake because you're human and the best thing I can do now is

[00:24:43] when I'm a bit distraught to go sorry there's a really irritating crappy email and I'll read it out. I just say get a load of this. I've got an opinion on that and they laugh. Like, this is what it's been at all.

[00:24:55] Slow down, don't rush to get it to be like it's a lot of mundane bullshit being an adult. And so again, it's just saying sorry I'm bloody miles away, you know just it's just showing them this is what it's to be human

[00:25:05] but the best thing is to just go I'm really sorry I was a bit distracted there. You probably noticed I can see getting irritated. I'm back in the room. Where were we? So they go, you sort of say it like that's a normal thing

[00:25:17] but I don't think that level of honesty requires practice and enough that's what everyone. No, I've only learned the hard way mainly from my wife at times sort of almost being like sort of playing go back going well I walked out, they go

[00:25:28] that's not wrong with those kids they are in a foul mood. She goes, yeah let's talk about your part and I went I didn't do anything. I'm the adult. And she goes, what was all this? I went, yeah but you can't talk to me like that.

[00:25:41] But they have so what are you gonna do about it? You now sound younger than them they can't talk to me like that. Who are you right now? Go back in there and say you're sorry. And I went what? They go back in there and say sorry.

[00:25:53] I haven't done anything wrong. They're not talking to you you're not talking to them so what's gonna happen here? Go and be the leader that you're supposed to be then as a father and so the best thing to do sometimes as well is like have a thousand apologies

[00:26:06] ready at the start of the day. Have them like candy. Just like that. Stuff I'd like to say sorry for that. Oh my gosh wow. I love it. It's an ego leveler. The moment you hang on to being right being right will often leave you

[00:26:20] the other side of a bedroom door that's been slanted a matter of times. I was the other side of a bedroom door. I was going I just I'm not gonna I'm not gonna come in. All I was trying to say was that's what I said.

[00:26:32] Now all I did get was like you get a bit emotional there. Yeah. All I'm trying to say is do you ever do you have a policy of not trying the handle? I've never ever done that. Never gone in. No. Always respected a closed door.

[00:26:44] Closed that and then I'll go okay. I said all right you know we're all getting a bit heated let's just take kind of a minute and then what I will do is I will go and make some hot chocolate or some biscuits and then go up there

[00:26:55] and I'll go I'm just leaving these here. All right. I'm not coming in. I'm just leaving in about five or 10 minutes later you're in the bedroom door open. Right. And then I'll go back and go hey can I come in? I just want to say sorry.

[00:27:08] And then here's the other thing that I think is a great thing to do is like when you're a dad you go in their bedrooms and you're towering over them right. I think you're trying to use you're trying to use something.

[00:27:19] I always make myself sit on the floor and go. Why aren't you backing this? Yeah. And fall asleep and just cry. Like a bear. I just go cry. Doing a bear attack. Doing a bear attack. It's so hard. It's so hard. It's so hard.

[00:27:31] But I will sit on the floor even if we're having a quite serious heavy conversation. I say sit on the floor. Let them be guiding it above you. Let them have that position. Don't be towering over them. Blah blah blah blah. I think you're

[00:27:45] because they're looking down at you. That's where you should be. I'm right on the ground. I'm listening. What is it that's going on? And the best you can do is try and help them unpick their thoughts and emotions. I think all of this comes back to again,

[00:28:01] connection and minimizing distance. Minimizing physical or... How do you like to be spoken to by your partner or a work colleague or anyone like that? Get straight on the floor. Straight on the floor. You're trying to pull up some cookies, right? It's a hot chocolate and a hug.

[00:28:13] Ha ha ha ha ha ha. So joy? Did we have another one of the big three in there? Yeah, and I would say this is probably most this is a really, really important one. The word vulnerable is bandied around a lot, right?

[00:28:26] It's an important word, but it's a misunderstood word. It alienates people even when I sit sometimes. It irritates me and I know I'm a very vulnerable dad into the point where my kids laugh about how open and vulnerable I am.

[00:28:42] Being vulnerable to me means not knowing all the answers and not needing to know all the answers. And also being... I remember when they were teenagers and so we moved to Australia five years ago and the first two years were really, really hard for them

[00:28:56] because there were ages that were at. Trying to break into friendship groups when girls that age have all their friends. Yeah, that was hard breaking for them. Yeah, really, really hard. And I remember going in and speaking to one of my daughters

[00:29:10] and saying, you know, I get it, it is. It's really hard sometimes life and it's trying to be vulnerable. And even say to these girls, hey, it's really hard, you know, I'm starting to make friends here. And she just went, what do you know about it?

[00:29:24] And I actually didn't know what to say. It's like she called me out on my own BS. And I walked out and I said to my wife, yeah, she's just called me out. She goes, but you do know about struggle.

[00:29:31] Go in there and talk about your own struggles. I went, yeah, that's like, I think they don't, they need me to be like strong. And I went, no, they don't need to be super dead or super human. That was like years ago and that's slightly funny,

[00:29:45] but now that's not who you are. It's not who they need. They need a human. They needed someone to go in there and go, sometimes life is really, really hard and you don't know what to do. So they can go, oh, you do get it

[00:29:56] rather than here's what I did. And here's how I can 10x vulnerability. It's a workout plan. So you can have a six pack heart like your dad. But yeah, vulnerability is actually showing them those bits that you'd rather not share. And it's going in there and going,

[00:30:16] yeah, it's a story about when I really got it wrong or I was actually lost. Those conversations actually make your entire relation because then they know they can come to you actually because you do know what it's like. If they see you as shiny and successful

[00:30:30] or try to have the right answer, there's no way in with that person. I don't want my friends to be like that. My wife and I, our relationship isn't like that. So it's like your best friends that you're connected to, you know, you've been there.

[00:30:40] You've been down the mud sometimes with them when it's really, really bad. Your kids need to see what you're like when you're down the mud. Otherwise, you're not showing them what it's like to struggle. Then how do you help yourself get unstuck

[00:30:51] and you will get stuck in life, right? What are you showing them about how to deal with that? Yeah, I think that's beautiful. That's connection because you can only connect with people you can understand and be on the same level. It's bad getting on the same level.

[00:31:05] Yeah, but hey, I'm telling you now, there's no real connection without vulnerability. Honestly, otherwise you're limiting to how far that relationship can go and how deep those conversations are gonna go. So yeah, I've had to have really, you know, I wrote a book a couple of years ago

[00:31:19] about having our anxiety and panic attacks. I didn't even tell my mom and dad about that. That only came, that Sharon came through actually happened to go and speak to my kids about it. I didn't wanna be going there to tell them that,

[00:31:29] but my wife said, tell them that. What happened after you told them? Oh, it was incredible. It changed our entire relationship. It's still to this day changes our relationship because of that, them and us having that conversation. And it was taken off that almost that.

[00:31:43] You enjoy being super dad, carry you up to bed, dad so strong. He felt awesome doing that. And actually they don't want that fake superhero. No. All that is gonna build his real disconnection. And once they get into the real job of parenting begins when they're teenagers

[00:31:59] because no one gets out of that forest unwounded and un-scarred. None of us did. And if you think you did, you're lying and you're kidding yourself. All right. So shit gets real once they become teenagers and it brings up stuff

[00:32:16] that you're not even aware about about your teenage years. And so you need to be really aware of what's yours. Maybe you need to do some work on that. That's got nothing to do with them. I feel like I just have experienced it just with primary school starting.

[00:32:29] I think this has come up before as well but it's that feeling of going, oh, what are these feelings? And you go, I dealt with that because I'm not in the high school anymore. And then you go, no, I don't think I dealt with that.

[00:32:42] I think I just drove away and did that thing where you flip the review mirror up so you can't see what's in the review mirror anymore. I just kept driving. But now I've accidentally gone around the block and I'm right back here.

[00:32:54] And I got to deal with this. Yes, what you have is you have this kind of second teenage. It's really strange. You feel like you go back and live it. All of it. Yeah, you start reliving some of it as well.

[00:33:05] Where were the areas that popped back up again for you that you were surprised to find? To meet again 30 years later. I think it's the thing about how hard it is to find your tribe. And when you're a teenager, we all do this, you're looking for identity.

[00:33:24] And it's like going into a costume hire place, isn't it? I'll be the emo kid. I'll be, well, for me sadly, Elvis Presley when no one else has been Elvis Presley in the 80s. But anyway, that was my journey. Yeah, that was your choice.

[00:33:35] You're trying all these different outfits and seeing them do it, you're like, oh no, you don't need to do that. You don't need to do that. But that's the thing. It's so hard to not apply adult level context. Yeah, I do this.

[00:33:49] This is one of the things I'm really guilty of with my kids where I'm like, I come at them with like adult level thinking, like, oh guys, you don't need to worry about that. But it's like they're in it.

[00:33:57] And they're like, yeah, this is all I worry about. And it's so real for them to go through and you have to, I guess get into the weeds with them. Yeah, I remember that was like to feel like that. Yeah, and I think sharing those stories

[00:34:11] of your teenage screw ups, they laugh. You're a funny guy. Then you're giving them the story and in the story like the best stories, you don't need to say what it's about. They receive on some level what that story is really about.

[00:34:25] And storytelling is the best way we really learn. They don't need a TED talk from you. They need to hear about- What do you mean you wait? Then I need to be inspired. No, no, they really don't want to be inspired.

[00:34:36] They want to hear about when you were 15. I can't tell you enough how much they want to be inspired. You're not inspired, kid. I took a photo when I was 15 of a photo of Elvis Presley, right? And he wasn't big in the 80s.

[00:34:45] He was dead and he wasn't cool. You too were the band at the moment. I went into Elvis Presley, not what my school was. I took a photo of Elvis into like, well you know those hairdressers like Mr. Tops was like two bucks

[00:34:56] or they have his a shit. And I went, I want to let Elvis. Wow. Look, the guy went, hang on a minute. I just need to go and wash my hands. I could hear him telling a friend up there and they were door open. They were laughing.

[00:35:07] They were actually laughing at me on this cloud. Elvis? I'll tell you this guy's two bucks. Everyone's coming in wanting a bono or something like that. Who the hell is into Elvis? This kid's not going to get it.

[00:35:18] You're going to get out of here but lost a bit. I haven't seen him. We're going to call your parents first to make sure we're allowed to do this to your head. So did you get an Elvis cut? Well, they said it was Elvis

[00:35:31] but it's not Elvis, you've been in a house fire. And when you, I mean that's the thing, sharing this sort of stuff with our kids. Yeah. I often like, you know, if I could give any advice to a teenager, I often think to myself, I'm like,

[00:35:46] the hardest thing to communicate as, you know, as someone who's been through their thirties and into their forties. You think at the time, and even in your twenties, you think like life's just going to keep rolling on whether there's fun stuff happening and all these wild adventures.

[00:35:59] But once you hit family life, like things do become a bit more structured and slow down. Yeah. The one bit of advice I always feel like giving teenagers and I wonder if you've given this to your girls and like how you give this to teenagers is to go

[00:36:12] all the worst moments that you would have given anything to get out of, in terms of embarrassing, right? Not traumatic moments, but in terms of embarrassing moments, you would have given everything to just disappear. They become the best stories and you realize once you get in your twenties,

[00:36:28] you're all just telling the same stories and when you're thirties, you'll really just tell them the same stories. Yeah, that is all you've got. Without your worst moments, you really have no great anecdotes. No, and also it's like, I always say to them,

[00:36:41] so why is that your best friend? Why is she your best friend, right? And I get in the tronics now, like why do you like those people? And they go, oh, she's funny. She's a good storyteller.

[00:36:51] I go, so there you go, those are what they need in you. They don't want, you don't need to be that type of person in front of them. That's a good question. You know, and you're trying to remind them it's about without saying the V word being vulnerable

[00:37:03] because that's like a grown up word. Kids don't know what that means. They live or they don't live it. Because to them, it's about realness, right? Yeah, that. And I think their generation on TikTok now, at first I kept, when my kids started talking about TikTok,

[00:37:16] I could go, oh, TikTok, you know, and so all I was doing was just slamming a door in their face. So I go, okay, we won't talk to you about it. Well, now I go, what have you seen on TikTok? They show me these amazing videos.

[00:37:26] A lot of light help they get about mental health in that space now is through TikTok. I wish I'd had it as a kid, but then more on, I went, oh, TikTok, three second attention span. They go, yeah, really original take on it, Dad.

[00:37:39] We now can't talk about anything. I've got stuff I want to talk to you about. You're just, you shut the door in their face. I mean, I have that with my wife, with TikTok, everything, every meal or cooking hack or like organization or hack around the house.

[00:37:54] So it goes, oh, by the way, we do this now. Like that's a cool way of whatever. Storing things. I'm like, is this TikTok? And she's like, yeah, yeah. So I'm on TikTok. It's like medical stuff. Like, oh, do you know, I don't know, like microwaving rice.

[00:38:08] No, no, it's an ice cube and a piece of baking paper or whatever, because it's like, oh, that's a TikTok thing. To the point where yesterday, I was like, is this a, there was a hot cross bun bag

[00:38:17] with one bun left in it and a half a lemon, like a lemon rind. And I was like, is this a TikTok thing? Is this how you keep hot cross buns fresh? No, no, I was just throwing it out. That didn't put a bin liner in.

[00:38:33] But in my head, I'm like, cool hack. Yeah, that's really good. You got to open yourself up to these news ways. So yeah, for the kids, whatever they're into, get curious about it. Get into it. So I'd say some of the biggest conversations we had

[00:38:48] really would just be where every Sunday I go, this is go for drive. And I would just wonder, we just drive out. I don't care where we go, it's get lost, find different suburb, try and get a coffee. But with no agenda, not like,

[00:39:00] oh, you know, really what the whole purpose is about your homework or tiny badge. I'm just allowed to have a chat. So we're then do a thing where they've been charged with my phone and I would say, put this song on now.

[00:39:09] And then I go, no, you play me your song. And so we would just start, and we'd talk about the music. So you have in this conversation and you're in it, you'll keep them talking and then there's something about the magic of being in a car as well.

[00:39:20] You're looking ahead, silence is okay, cause you're just driving along. But then you could sometimes, if it was right and they trusted you, then a conversation could unfold. One thing that I love about this show is these little ideas, these little things, they sound little,

[00:39:37] but then not little things. Like the opportunities to get on a kid's level. And I think a lot of people will hear this and be like, yeah, I'm not into the stuff that my kids into. And I guess the answer to that is,

[00:39:49] well, it's kind of up to you, right? Like you've got to, you might have to wait for a lot of, you can't choose the type of connection. They choose a type of connection. It's up to you if you're the adult.

[00:40:01] The old down menu guy and I into my TikTok. You know, it's like one of my daughters is really into her beauty regime and stuff like that. So when we go out and about, I've just bought her something now for me and her to try together.

[00:40:12] It's like, okay, why don't I understand that world? How can you help my dying old skin? You don't need to worry about it's 16, you're glowing, this guy does. Work on me, have you eaten your canvas? Your skin bounces back when you move it.

[00:40:27] Mine stays like old glad wrap. That's beautiful though, because again, I hear this and I go, it's pretty clear. It's on us. We are the parents. You got the choice or not? Like, I'm really into competitive frisbee. Like all right, not where I thought

[00:40:47] I would be spending my Sundays, but I'll get into it. I'll be there. I would look at that. Any variation of that to me is gold standard dining because it's like, it's someone making the effort, putting the kid first. Yeah, you're showing up and you're saying

[00:41:04] whatever you're into, I don't understand it all. I'm into it as well because I'm into you. So like, I went see Harry Styles a couple of weeks ago. That's not my choice of Friday night. Now I took my 16 year old daughter Lois and her best friend.

[00:41:16] They didn't want to be anywhere near me in the stadium. That's fine, right? I was somewhere else, but I wanted to see it all so I could talk to her about it the next day. Don't remember her. Otherwise she's going this and I went,

[00:41:25] oh, when he did that? Suddenly we've got a conversation that carries on even now when she sees her friends and we're like, oh, dad saw Harry Styles as well. Dad, what did you think of him? Oh, I saw this. So I'm being invited into the conversation.

[00:41:36] It's not the Friday night I would have chosen, but that's the one I'll take. And I gotta be honest, I was a bit underrepresented as a 50-something man wandering around. It's like creepy looking narco there. What's this guy's deal? By himself. You here with your kids, mate? No.

[00:41:51] No, just Friday night. It's a Styles fan. Don't even have any of his music. Just here. He's got season pass to this arena. What's number three? Number three, we keep talking about this and actually it's another key part of being connected as presence. If you're attached to,

[00:42:12] we need to get over there to have this amazing experience I planned in New Zealand. You're not there with them. I'm not feeling very well, Dad. Yeah, we need to get there for eight o'clock. You'll be all right in the morning or take some vitamin C.

[00:42:24] It's like, Dad, I'm not feeling very well right now. I need you to listen to me now, not talk about tomorrow or I worry about the Excel spreadsheet. It's actually, it's the magic of any of our connections is now. It's not tomorrow. Oh yeah, I've scheduled a connection

[00:42:40] at three o'clock tomorrow afternoon. If you don't have it now, they'll cancel that. Oh, I don't wanna see you anymore. We do that. Yeah, we do that. That's the crazy thing because all this stuff is super best intentioned. Of course it is coming from a good place

[00:42:51] and of caring and wanting to get it right. But actually even that attention I wanna get it right. What is getting it right? Being present, you're never gonna be right there or just being right with them. Even if you go, do you know what, this is really important.

[00:43:06] I need to go and do something. I'm gonna come back. It's like last year, my eldest daughter last year at school, year 12, very stressful. She started to just do this pottery class on a Wednesday night, right? And I pick her up and she was a different kid

[00:43:20] after which she was relaxed, funny. And so she finished the first term and I went, would you mind if I enrolled on the next, and she'll be terrible? I went, yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously. But I said, I'd have to do it with you.

[00:43:31] It looks like it's great fun. I then did three more turns of pottery. I was the worst there, right? She got offered a job, she was so good at it. I was terrible. I did pottery, right? For 30 weeks last year.

[00:43:42] One of my best things I've ever done as a dad is to see it's been present. I was terrible at it. It's not about the, this, it's about hanging out. So this year, I've done it with my 16-year-old daughter.

[00:43:51] I said, you know, let's pick something neither of us can do. So for the last four weeks, we've been learning on a Monday night African drumming. Awesome. Awesome. I'm not that good at that either. But honestly, hey, they're just hanging out together.

[00:44:03] You are very close to starting your own stall. You got the pots and the busking and selling your, your eyes. You're closed up. Yes. She's a broadcaster. Yeah. You already shoo in for like a Dallas foot market. But that, but again, like these, these are things

[00:44:21] that I think are really admirable because it's, it represents something that I think is, I hold as a standard, I hope I can meet, which is, it's that effort. Like a lot of times people, these are easy things to say, the follow through, I think.

[00:44:35] I think it's so valuable hearing this because the evidence is there of going the follow through will count. And you know what, even if it didn't work at drumming, but it started something else. And we had a massive argument two weeks ago

[00:44:47] where she was like, I'm really tired. I've had a hard day at school. And I was like, we need to go. It's a new drum call we're learning tonight. And straightaway I could feel myself getting tense. And I could see my wife going, have you learned nothing?

[00:45:01] You've been doing so much 19 years. That's interesting what happens to your instinct is to force it. Yeah, yeah. To be like, no, no, no, but we enrolled. I was worried about letting down David the instructor. I wasn't being present. I was like, well, we have to, you know,

[00:45:12] otherwise, you know, I booked up on these. This is time for connection. And then I had to surrender that. I go, you know what? Don't worry about it. I said, why don't we just, do you want to watch some TV later on tonight?

[00:45:22] She came down about an hour later, sat down the couch, we didn't need to go. Oh, well, you know, you said you had loads of homework. It's just, we could have got drumming in now. We just put the TV on and had a lovely time.

[00:45:34] It was again, it's a lesson, just reminding of like, to surrender. I think it's like, you do need to, you need to commit and make these habits, right? Say for it, that's the pottery or whatever it is. You do need some structure to it,

[00:45:45] or it won't happen, right? You need, you do need to, but now I try and see it as this is here on a Monday night, we may go do African drumming or we may watch TV, but on a Monday night, I'll be present with whatever she needs.

[00:46:00] That, that is the same thing. I'm planning presence. There you go. Put that in the schedule. And then that's the hot thing. See, whatever that is. Because we again like that idea of being right. We're like, yes. I found the thing. It's African drumming and I know this.

[00:46:13] And again, I'm in the movie. We're going to form a band at the end of it. And I'm full for this trouble. I'm like, it's set and forget. Great. I've dissolved it. Yes. I've done it. I've scheduled, I found the thing. Yeah, I'm, I'm dadding.

[00:46:24] I'm a great dad. And you forget that. That's half the equation. You have to find the thing and then you have to be ready for it to not plan, be, not pan out the way you wanted it to. Yeah. And then here's still making these mistakes.

[00:46:37] I, when I said good night to her, the night we just hung out and watched TV instead of growing drumming. I still couldn't believe I said this. I went, but we need to go next week. And I could see all the connection goes go.

[00:46:49] And I went, I didn't know what I shouldn't said that. It's right. It's okay. I went, please, please don't shut the door. No, no, no. I didn't mean to, that's all my chips. I lost all my chips. I'm dying. I'm dying. I'm going to be dead this weekend.

[00:47:07] So I just had to then hold my hand and say, I shouldn't have said that. You know, it doesn't matter. I'm sorry. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. It's one little step forward. And then that trap door opens again and you're like, well.

[00:47:21] All right. That is what it feels like sometimes. Isn't it? Like you just, you fall through the trap door and you trudge back up to the main level and hope. Just went to you fall through the next trap door. It's a constant series of trap doors.

[00:47:32] I'm sorry for the 19 years. You thought you'd have someone who's got it all wrong. We want to talk to a guy that knows how to avoid the trap doors. No, no, no. You never see him. No. Perfectly flush with the floorboards. Yeah.

[00:47:43] And you need to go through the trap doors because actually sometimes you just relearn in the same lesson but in a slightly different way. And even the way that I can apologize quicker and even catch myself. Whereas I think a couple of years ago,

[00:47:57] I would have just gone, yeah, we should do that, you know? And then left it there, not realizing what I've just created. Like it sounds like there's been a much bigger increase in awareness to us. You've gone through the journey. Yes, yeah, yeah.

[00:48:10] I'm still walking on those trap doors though. I was just aware when I'm suddenly... Oh, don't worry. Here we go. Do you have for us, and we might have already covered it, but an example of someone you know that you look at

[00:48:23] big or small and go, that's gold standard. Like that guy is being a great dad. Yeah, there was a friend of mine and this was a couple of years ago but I think about it so much because I think actually it probably touches

[00:48:37] on a lot of the stuff we've talked about that we value. And that's the other thing, being a dad doesn't really mean anything unless you can really say to yourself what you value about it. And one thing to be really great,

[00:48:49] which I'd done years ago, but I have done it this year, is actually to write down, what is it you value about being a dad? Because when you write down, at first I forced myself to have 10 words and then I forced myself to just pick five

[00:49:01] and really prioritize it. Now when I think about how I spent the next seven days, I go, am I living true to that? I've lost a bit of that. And it's not like in a judgmental way, it's just like a little compass point where I can go,

[00:49:12] okay cool, I haven't done that for a couple of days, I know what I'm gonna do now, I'll pick up the phone, call my daughter at uni and go, hey it's gone for Jack. What's going on rather than being something. So understanding where,

[00:49:22] because otherwise if you don't know what you value in your relationship or who you wanna be as a dad, being a dad is an active thing of constantly becoming a dad that they're gonna need next. Once you think you've got it sorted or you've hit it,

[00:49:34] then they're moving on slightly and you need to be moving with them, not ahead of them but you need to be moving as well and evolving who you are, what dad do they, who do they need me to be in this moment?

[00:49:45] What are they gonna need from me in a year's time? How do I grow that now? How do I start to start? I need to get that crop ready. Get that crop ready, get those seeds ready. So yeah, but in terms of it,

[00:49:56] it was a friend of mine a couple years ago and his son had had a really tough time, really awful time bullying at school. It's just about one of the worst things that can happen to your kid. So they went to a new school

[00:50:06] and he'd been this poor little kid who was a lovely lad. He'd been so traumatized by it he couldn't go out in the playground. He would just stay indoors, right? And so his dad did this thing for a couple of weeks, right?

[00:50:15] I didn't even know until a couple years later. I was like, you never told me that. I guess I don't know, you'd be interested. This dad, this friend of mine turned up every day around the corner from the school.

[00:50:24] The school didn't even know this kid was doing this. We then just snuck out for 20 minutes, get his dad's car, they'd have their sandwiches together and he'd sneak back in school. He did that about four or five weeks until his son said, you don't need to come tomorrow.

[00:50:34] And so I was like, okay, that. He didn't tell any of us about it for years and I'm like, what? I think about that once a week and I go, that is what it is to be a dad. It's not about we're gonna go and do this.

[00:50:46] It's like, you know, we talked about being in the mud with him. That guy's right there and he's sort of gonna fix him going when you go back in there, think they're sore. I'm gonna teach you some martial arts and that.

[00:50:54] He's just going, hey, I'll come and see you and I'll show him. We'd love to see you and I'll show him. And they think, God, what did he do? Imagine what the young kid felt there. Your biggest thing really, we can talk about connection

[00:51:03] to break it down as like, make them feel safe, make them feel loved. That's it. That's what you need to do as much as you can. And when you're not doing it, just go, oh yeah. It's hard. It's hard. It's a busy day and just,

[00:51:17] you don't need to tell yourself or but just remind yourself, am I making them feel safe? Am I making them feel loved? That's it. What, and the rest of it you're working on. That is amazing, darling. That is amazing because to get in the trenches like that

[00:51:31] and to not fix and to be there. And to me, it often comes back to that too, of like, you can tell your kids they matter or you can show them in an unbelievably powerful way that they matter. Yeah, that guy obviously was aware on some level

[00:51:48] what his values were. I will be, I won't give up on you. I'll be in it with you, whatever it is. I'm walking alongside this with you. And just for 20 minutes, I come on up, I have my sandwiches here, sneak out, come and sit with me.

[00:51:59] That's just like, that is just like that. You know when you talk about sort of the snapshots and the movie of what it should be, the real movie, what's really important. It's those pure little moments like that for 20 minutes. Those two having their sandwiches together.

[00:52:12] It's like, oh, that's what it is to be a dad. We think it's about the big stuff, teach them how to ride a bike or throw a ball or catch. All of that's great. But in their moments, whenever you think about who you are as a dad,

[00:52:25] that little boy will always, whatever happens, he's always gonna know, oh, my dad showed up for me for that. Wow. And he now knows he can trust his dad. You were there then, you didn't say do this, think that or man up or anything like that.

[00:52:38] He was just there, eating my sandwiches. It's no small moments. That's beautiful. I love it. I will need the name of the school that would report. I mean that, he was wagging. Oh, I don't want to, I've had him arrested. Actually, not much to do that.

[00:52:51] Apart from that amazing daddy. Thank you, mate. So good. Thanks, Christian. Oh, pleasure. I loved it. Hey, Mitch is glad that he talked to another dad. Now he's gonna say some other stuff, but he will be by himself. What an absolute doozy of a chat.

[00:53:08] Man, thank you so much, Christian. If you're listening back to how you went on this, arrogant, but deserved because gee, that was an amazing chat. You didn't make, he just, oh, you did an amazing job. Again, I listened back to it

[00:53:20] and I can hear in my own voice, my voice going, oh my God, there's so much to talk about here. I've missed, I'm sure I've missed three or four things, but so lucky to have someone as erudite and well thought out and well spoken as Christian.

[00:53:36] Give us those 19 years of wisdom. Man, I think what I just love so much about Christian is his absolute honesty about having best intentions, having a plan, and then hearing someone who's 19 years through it just go, you always think you've got a plan. As the old saying goes,

[00:53:52] everyone's got a plan till they get punched in the face, but hopefully that's not what's happening with your kids, but you always think you have the plan and you just have to remember that the other person is involved

[00:54:02] and that we talk about the movie a lot in that chat. They're not gonna follow the script. There's two authors and you don't get to see what they're writing until it's in real time. And I love that reminder to constantly, as he said, grow and evolve

[00:54:13] and go with where your children need you to be. And very hilarious to hear that. Of course, that's easier said than done because we're all still making the mistake. But also my God, I think not that it's competition, but if there was an award for favorite so far

[00:54:29] of my gold standard daddings, that story about his friend, gee, that's gotta be up there. That is beautiful, beautiful dadding. Hey, thank you for listening so much. Whether you're a dad, a mom, a father figure, a daughter, a son, whoever you may be.

[00:54:44] Thank you so much for listening. This is, as always, an absolute pleasure. We'll see you next time. How are the dads dad? How are the dads dad? This episode of How Are The Dads Dad was produced by Tim Bartley and his good friend, Hamish Blake.

[00:55:01] Our theme music is, of course, the star of the show, apart from the guests, and by the incredibly funny and clever Tom Cardi. We recorded this on the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation who have passed their parenting stories down for thousands of generations,

[00:55:14] and we pay our respects. If you want to drop us a line, head to our website, howarethedadsdad.com. Thanks again for listening. Hamish is a dad who just spoke with a dad and it blew his tiny mind about what he learned. So he'll keep on the dads

[00:55:27] and force them to talk to him so he can find out how are the dads dad?